The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Nick can do it. He filled the role on a finals team as practically a rookie.

He didn't. He was used as exploitation as soon as the team had first changeup. Danault was used as shutdown against the top lines. You could see it with Danault being paired with Weber on most shifts and Suzuki being paired with Petry. Go look it up, Suzuki got most of his points when Petry was with him.

Not saying he can't. Just saying that he wasn't in the cup run.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No A stands for finally rebuilding after 2 decades of bad hockey .

Lots of tanking left buckle up. I love it

We may wind up with another high pick this year. Not what I wanted but not a terrible outcome either.

The fans thought we were gonna a cup with Suzuki at 1C and Caufield at 1W.

What did they think the tank was for? Newhook and Dach?

Dach’s situation is so freaking sad. The guy can’t buy a break. I’m still hopeful he can find his game again.

 

[BozoTheClown]

Next step is to send Dach to a competent sport psychologist.
Have him watch videos of Players that came back from injuries and still worked their asses off, battled hard and maintained a strong performance on the ice.
Have him watch videos of smaller players like St-Louis, Fleury, Caufield, Mikita and so on, maybe that’ll wake him up.

If it doesn’t, we will know exactly why Chicago dumped him.

 

[RealityBytes]

Next 5 moves aren't likely going to be the things that make the Habs a contender, ie dumping Dvorak is probably going to be one of those next 5 moves, needs to be done, but is rather meaningless in terms of turning us into a contender.

As for what long term we need to be a contender, we need some combination of better scoring, better defence, better goaltending. We are at a point where we kind of still need to wait and see because some of that is already going to move forward without any moves. For example Demidov coming over, and being a game breaker, it's not happening this year, and it might take a couple years for him to really hit his stride and be dominant. But it's anyones guess as to whether that will be enough to move our offence from middle of the pack (19th currently) to say top-5.

It won't be, even if Demidov has Mitch Marner type stats. Better offence won't do much if there is still poor defense. One player is not enough to move the Habs from bottom of the pack in the standings to top 5. More likely they would end up like Buffalo or Ottawa.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It won't be, even if Demidov he has Mitch Marner type stats. One player is not enough to move the Habs from bottom of the pack to top 5. More likely they will end up like Buffalo or Ottawa.

One player can make a huge difference though. That’s why Dach being bad has hurt us so much. Imagine if he were playing well. That would help guys like Newhook and Roy be better. It’s a snowball effect throughout the lineup.

Another thing, next year we’ll probably see Beck, Mailloux, Roy, Demidov and maybe even RB become regular players. There’s a huge influx of talent on the way.

 

[RealityBytes]

One player can make a huge difference though. That’s why Dach being bad has hurt us so much. Imagine if he were playing well. That would help guys like Newhook and Roy be better. It’s a snowball effect throughout the lineup.

Another thing, next year we’ll probably see Beck, Mailloux, Roy, Demidov and maybe even RB become regular players. There’s a huge influx of talent on the way.

Dach has shown what he is, so has Newhook.

Demidov and Beck have played a total of one game in the NHL. Don't over estimate them from their hype. Mailloux and Roy show closer to being average. There is a huge influx, coming, but if it is only average talent, it won't do anything.

I think you are being overly optimistic with what is coming. The Habs may get somewhat better, but not enough to make the top three in the division.

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

Dach has shown what he is, so has Newhook.

Demidov and Beck have played a total of one game in the NHL. Don't over estimate them from their hype. Mailloux and Roy show closer to being average. There is a huge influx, coming, but if it is only average talent, it won't do anything.

I think you are being overly optimistic with what is coming. The Habs may get somewhat better, but not enough to make the top three in the division.

I think Dach deserves more time, he looked really good before injury and in those 2 games last season he looked absolutely dominant. I would definitely bench him for a few right now to take some pressure off of him and maybe allow him to reset.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dach has shown what he is, so has Newhook.

Both showed a lot more last year.

Demidov and Beck have played a total of one game in the NHL. Don't over estimate them from their hype. Mailloux and Roy show closer to being average. There is a huge influx, coming, but if it is only average talent, it won't do anything.

Some prospects will pan out and some won’t. That’s true for sure. But there’s a whole whack of young talent on the way. And I didn’t even mention Fowler.

I think you are being overly optimistic with what is coming. The Habs may get somewhat better, but not enough to make the top three in the division.

Next year? Probably not. But I don’t care. I care that we’re building towards a cup. Long term I feel like we’re on the right track.

There will be bumps along the way. I thought Dach and Newhook would form a solid second with maybe Roy this year and none of that has worked out. So maybe we need to make changes - that’s okay. Audibles will happen.

What matters is that we’ve got a deep talented pool coming up. Some of those guys will work out and we can go from there.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Both showed a lot more last year.

Some prospects will pan out and some won’t. That’s true for sure. But there’s a whole whack of young talent on the way. And I didn’t even mention Fowler.


Next year? Probably not. But I don’t care. I care that we’re building towards a cup. Long term I feel like we’re on the right track.

There will be bumps along the way. I thought Dach and Newhook would form a solid second with maybe Roy this year and none of that has worked out. So maybe we need to make changes - that’s okay. Audibles will happen.

What matters is that we’ve got a deep talented pool coming up. Some of those guys will work out and we can go from there.

The important thing right now is they need to find a way to juice Slafkovsky, Newhook and Dach in particular.

But it's hard to see that coming when Marty won't even hold Dvorak or Matheson accountable.

I've got a whole lot more patience than most of this board which has gone way way too negative because they certainly don't understand what a rebuild looks like but Marty hasn't shown he's got a willingness to learn what he needs to learn to push things forward.

The problem is the talent pool of French speaking coaches is beyond horrible. I can't think of anyone but Montgomery who I would hire, and he got fired a year too early.

 

[Kennedys]

I'm still watching the games because of Suzuki, Caufield and Hutson

 

[Sorinth]

It won't be, even if Demidov has Mitch Marner type stats. Better offence won't do much if there is still poor defense. One player is not enough to move the Habs from bottom of the pack in the standings to top 5. More likely they would end up like Buffalo or Ottawa.

First off my post was talking about top-5 offensively, and yes addeding a 100 point player would probably put us in the top-5 offensively. It probably wouldn't put us top-5 in the standings, but it would still improve us defensively simply because we would spend more time in the offensive zone and less time in the defensive zone.

But more broadly the point still stands that we don't really know what type of moves we need to make. The holes of today aren't necessarily the holes of tomorrow, right now the 2nd line C spot is a big hole, Dach could get back on track and fill it, Hage could take it fairly quickly, Slaf/Demidov could make the conversion to center and fill it, we could draft a C with our top-pick this year, etc... So we probably should wait and see rather then trying to fill that hole with a move right now unless that move is a fleecing of the other team. And the same is true for defence and goaltending, do we need a big RHD that will cost a lot of quality assets? Right now it would be a huge upgrade but if Reinbacher becomes what he was drafted to be over the next couple of years then that big hole on RD that we have today isn't worth spending quality assets on.

We have high end prospects at every position but since they are prospects some will fail to deliver, but until we know which ones we don't know which holes we should be looking to fill with vets.

 

[dcyhabs]

The tank is for draft picks, and the few picks from the tank drafts are learning, like Slaf and Hutson. Most of the prospects who put up points at lower levels are having a tough pro transition.

Accountability is fine once you have players competing for spots. This year they have dead weight they want to showcase and no one pushing to fill the spots. If they hold guys accountable they put someone unready out there.

Dach is clearly not comfortable out there. We’ll see if he comes back from his injuries. Barron is young enough he may figure out the defensive side. Newhook is inconsistent and the question is whether he’d be better with better players around him. Heineman has been good. Slaf was good last year, but rushing him to the NHL is looking worse both for development and contract status.

Trading young guys, signing stopgap vets, and hiring yet another hardass defensive coach is how you stay bad for another decade. Once the decks clear they can sign some guys short term, but they won’t be good until they have most spots competently filled with guys in Laval pushing to take spots from anyone who falters. They need another top D unless someone surprises and another top C unless Dach recovers.

Whining about how bad the team is ignores how bad they were two years ago and only decreases the chance that the team will ever be good.

The injury thing is a major impediment. If they can’t get to league average, discounting Price and Weber, there is not much hope.

 

[RationalExpectations]

I have given a C at the time and I think I would decrease to a D.

+ Team has a direction : management decided their core was focused around 2019 - 2020 draft with Suzuki being a bit older, hence they added Dach Newhook Heinemann to CC, Barron to Guhle
+ Habs tried to acquire talent via Laine trade

Too early to tell regarding 2022-2024 drafts, with Slaf, Hutson, Beck, Mesar are all in their D+3. Bit worrisome however that Slaf is looking very slow this year, that Reinbacher is injured + Gorton / Bobrov draft history not really encouraging

- Looks like trading targets (Dach, Newhook, Barron) are not succeeding right now
- They are making excuses for losing due to being a young team with a rebuild in its 3rd year whereas as mentioned above the core upon which they built is older than these 3 years of drafts
- Hugues is focused too much on maximizing his assets value, which explains why he did not trade Anderson and signed Allen to get rid of him 6 months after the beginning of the new contract. For me good GMs accept losing some trades to gain others (VGK lost Pacioretty trade but won Eichel / Stone ones which led to a cup, FLA lost Chiarot / Giroux trades but won Reinhart, Bennett, Tkachuk ones which led to a cup)
- Coaching is bad : no system, lame excuses, no intensity, no logic in lines (come one Hutson- Matheson...)

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I have given a C at the time and I think I would decrease to a D.

+ Team has a direction : management decided their core was focused around 2019 - 2020 draft with Suzuki being a bit older, hence they added Dach Newhook Heinemann to CC, Barron to Guhle
+ Habs tried to acquire talent via Laine trade

Too early to tell regarding 2022-2024 drafts, with Slaf, Hutson, Beck, Mesar are all in their D+3. Bit worrisome however that Slaf is looking very slow this year, that Reinbacher is injured + Gorton / Bobrov draft history not really encouraging

- Looks like trading targets (Dach, Newhook, Barron) are not succeeding right now
- They are making excuses for losing due to being a young team with a rebuild in its 3rd year whereas as mentioned above the core upon which they built is older than these 3 years of drafts
- Hugues is focused too much on maximizing his assets value, which explains why he did not trade Anderson and signed Allen to get rid of him 6 months after the beginning of the new contract. For me good GMs accept losing some trades to gain others (VGK lost Pacioretty trade but won Eichel / Stone ones which led to a cup, FLA lost Chiarot / Giroux trades but won Reinhart, Bennett, Tkachuk ones which led to a cup)
- Coaching is bad : no system, lame excuses, no intensity, no logic in lines (come one Hutson- Matheson...)

What would it take for an B or an A for you? Getting a 1D and franchise C in 3 years? drafting Michkov?

Are you really that surprised we are a bottom 5 team in the league? Would you really rather us finish 10th in the east?

 

[ReHabs]

Whining about how bad the team is ignores how bad they were two years ago and only decreases the chance that the team will ever be good.

Fans whining about the regression in performance and results makes it less likely the team shows better performances and results?

So what's the optimal practice for fans, in your opinion? Be quiet and cheer on the good (however small it is)? For how long, exactly?

 

[ReHabs]

What would it take for an B?or an A for you? Getting a 1D and franchise C in 3 years?

Sometimes there isn't a complete grade. For example we simply don't know the outcome of the 2022-2024 drafts and how they'd stack against the counter-factual. So yeah, I think if he did pull a huge roster improvements in the past three years, the whole fan community would be giving him As across the board. You have to ask if you prefer grading on a curve or you prefer grading with absolutes. I can see both paradigms working, so it's a matter of taste.

 

[Habs Halifax]

One player can make a huge difference though. That’s why Dach being bad has hurt us so much. Imagine if he were playing well. That would help guys like Newhook and Roy be better. It’s a snowball effect throughout the lineup.

Another thing, next year we’ll probably see Beck, Mailloux, Roy, Demidov and maybe even RB become regular players. There’s a huge influx of talent on the way.

I agree we have lots of talent coming but they are youth and none of them are Crosby. It's going to be growing pains. Our D core is what we need to mature first and that will be a process.

Very curious to see what Hughes does this off season in terms of adding depth in the right areas. The way this is tracking, we are in for some more rollercoaster ride until most of our talent is age 23+. By that time, Suzuki will be 28 ish. Enjoy the ride because it's not going to be a rocket up the standings all of a sudden type thing. There will be gains made in some areas and struggles in another.

Very much doubt most of our fan base and media will have the patience they think they have.

 

[Vachon23]

The problem is the talent pool of French speaking coaches is beyond horrible

Can we give David Carle french lessons right know so he can be ready this summer ?

 

[beowulf]

Without better goaltending the team will never move forward. Primeau has been a disappointment and Monty is a hot/cold goalie which a playoff team does not have as a starter. The young defense is slowly improving its defensive play but that needs work also. Hard times as a Habs fan will continue for a while. And the one nice thing this year, Laval, has hit a rough patch of their own now....booo

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sometimes there isn't a complete grade. For example we simply don't know the outcome of the 2022-2024 drafts and how they'd stack against the counter-factual. So yeah, I think if he did pull a huge roster improvements in the past three years, the whole fan community would be giving him As across the board. You have to ask if you prefer grading on a curve or you prefer grading with absolutes. I can see both paradigms working, so it's a matter of taste.

Grading on a future curve and projection is all we can do at this point in time. Most of us know these are young players and for every hit, you miss 3+ times. The good news is our pool is deep and our draft power to come is still high.

Rebuild man. It was not likely to happen fast and I fear we lack patience.

 

[sandviper]

Stay the course. We’re effectively entering year 3 of the rebuild. Sure, I know impatient people will say year 4, but the Slaf season wasn’t a tank season but rather a FUBAR one that led to Slaf and kickstarted things.

Only 1 of our first round picks is playing right now so we still don’t know what this team truly looks like.

Sure, I would like to see more progression but rebuilds don’t always have linear results. I am a little disappointed but accepted this is part of the process. We can still be critical, but there’s a lot if changes still to come.

 

[Demigod]

Lot of rebuilding is based on draft pick. Sadly we are not lucky since we started drafting in the Top 5. Even if I like Slaf he is far from a Superstar / Franchise type of players. Getting a guy like Bedard or Celibrini would have been a better outcome but we cannot control that.

However, our management did well by getting more picks in the late first or in the second, third round of draft.

We have the best bank of prospects of the league if you look at the number of players that could turn out to be NHLer. However we lack elite type of talent in this area. Only one that can be elite/superstar are Demidov, Hutson and Ill put Fowler too. The rest of our prospect are more likely filling bottom pairing or bottom 6 role.

This year we need to add some elite talent via this draft. In a perfect world in 2-3 years we could sign a top free agent to complete our core.

Those next 2-3 years will be really important for the outcome of the rebuild. It will dictate if will be a futur contender or a team that cannot find a way out of rebuilding (Buffalo, Ottawa like)

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The important thing right now is they need to find a way to juice Slafkovsky, Newhook and Dach in particular.

But it's hard to see that coming when Marty won't even hold Dvorak or Matheson accountable.

I've got a whole lot more patience than most of this board which has gone way way too negative because they certainly don't understand what a rebuild looks like but Marty hasn't shown he's got a willingness to learn what he needs to learn to push things forward.

The problem is the talent pool of French speaking coaches is beyond horrible. I can't think of anyone but Montgomery who I would hire, and he got fired a year too early.

I think both those guys are getting traded soon. Does it make sense to bench them if that’s what you’re going to do?

 

[RationalExpectations]

What would it take for an B or an A for you? Getting a 1D and franchise C in 3 years? drafting Michkov?

Are you really that surprised we are a bottom 5 team in the league? Would you really rather us finish 10th in the east?

Yes this is surprising the Habs are a bottom 5 team in the league when their core is in their D+5/D+8 with the support of a 1OA in his D+3. ( I don t blame it on Slaf he won t be perfect in his D+3 but sure he is disappointing right now). After 3 years the top 3 players are still from the Bergevin era, which means HuGo has not manage to improve this team yet. I don t like the intensity and the system played, the lack of accountability…

How many teams are bottom 5 4 years in a row and can claim they won a SC because of it ? The pens who got lucky to get Crosby, that s all I see across the past 15 years.

I just don t want this team to be the next BUF : trading good players to win SC somewhere else because you can t tell where the issue is anymore. Look at ANA, DET and how hard it is to climb back the standings once you accept losing.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Lot of rebuilding is based on draft pick. Sadly we are not lucky since we started drafting in the Top 5. Even if I like Slaf he is far from a Superstar / Franchise type of players. Getting a guy like Bedard or Celibrini would have been a better outcome but we cannot control that.

However, our management did well by getting more picks in the late first or in the second, third round of draft.

We have the best bank of prospects of the league if you look at the number of players that could turn out to be NHLer. However we lack elite type of talent in this area. Only one that can be elite/superstar are Demidov, Hutson and Ill put Fowler too. The rest of our prospect are more likely filling bottom pairing or bottom 6 role.

This year we need to add some elite talent via this draft. In a perfect world in 2-3 years we could sign a top free agent to complete our core.

Those next 2-3 years will be really important for the outcome of the rebuild. It will dictate if will be a futur contender or a team that cannot find a way out of rebuilding (Buffalo, Ottawa like)

We were lucky enough to be postioned to draft Michkov and passed on him.