The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Rapala]

Wow +/- what a wonderfully worthless stat, wanna talk about how he's a bad dresser as well while we're at it.

LOL
There is a reason the stat is kept you know.
Basically at this point it means Dach is not having success with anyone 5v5.
He looks shit out there because he is shit out there it's not a case of him eating negatives because of anyone else.
When he starts playing better he won't get noticed for the wrong reasons that's how it works that's how it's always worked.

 

[Demigod]

Imagine you are Hugues and Gorton what are you next 5 moves ?

Can you dress me a list of the next things we need to do to make the Habs contender in the long run?

Im very curious!

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

Imagine you are Hugues and Gorton what are you next 5 moves ?

Can you dress me a list of the next things we need to do to make the Habs contender in the long run?

Im very curious!

#1 Draft Schaefer
#2 Trade Armia, Savard and Dvorak this season, for scraps i don't care just get rid of them.
#3 Bring in a solid veteran D-Man and a solid veteran forward or two
#4 Pray that Demidov becomes elite, pray for Hage to workout
#5 Anderson will be the last anchor contract to move. Once he's gone bring in a star UFA player to complete the roster

 

[Demigod]

#1 Draft Schaefer
#2 Trade Armia, Savard and Dvorak this season, for scraps i don't care just get rid of them.
#3 Bring in a solid veteran D-Man and a solid veteran forward or two
#4 Pray that Demidov becomes elite, pray for Hage to workout
#5 Anderson will be the last anchor contract to move. Once he's gone bring in a star UFA player to complete the roster

And trade wise which players/prospects are untouchables?

 

[HabbyGuy]

Imagine you are Hugues and Gorton what are you next 5 moves ?

Can you dress me a list of the next things we need to do to make the Habs contender in the long run?

Im very curious!

1. Stay the course, remain patient, get a good look at what we have and what we need as the season unfolds.

2. Continue to draft strong and keep emphasis on development of our picks.

3. Try and fill holes revealed after this season after getting better read on situation. Either via trade (with our impressive capital) or free agency (with our healthier cap situation)

4. Wait for some help to arrive in terms of prospects already drafted.

5. Don't do anything stupid and make a panic move to try and appease neurotic rabid fanbase.

6. Give Marty, the guy the players love playing for, and has worked diligently with since his arrival, the time he deserves to prove if he can or can't get the job done.

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

And trade wise which players/prospects are untouchables?

I think this is our core moving forward:

Suzuki
Caufield
Slafkovsky
Demidov
Hage
Beck
Guhle
Hutson
Mailloux
Reinbacher
2025 top 5 pick

I would hold on to these guys. It's possible a couple other of our young guys could be added, Heineman, Kapanen.. Roy.. Engström..

 

[dcyhabs]

It's crazy that the same posters/media members saying that regression is acceptable and the expectation for a rebuild were also the most vocal that this team wasn't going to be in the bottom-5 this season.

We need more accountability around here and not just with the players

A lot of people thought they would be better. Panic firings and short term trades are not a good next move, regardless of how disappointed you are.

 

[Demigod]

1. Stay the course, remain patient, get a good look at what we have and what we need as the season unfolds.

2. Continue to draft strong and keep emphasis on development of our picks.

3. Try and fill holes revealed after this season after getting better read on situation. Either via trade (with our impressive capital) or free agency (with our healthier cap situation)

4. Wait for some help to arrive in terms of prospects already drafted.

5. Don't do anything stupid and make a panic move to try and appease neurotic rabid fanbase.

Im all in with your analysis. Gonna be hard for the high management not to fall for immediate help to calm the fans. They need to stick to their plans, even if its mean having fans and media against you. Thats not an easy task in a big market like Montreal

 

[dcyhabs]

And trade wise which players/prospects are untouchables?

Haven’t winning teams proven that there are no untouchables? You can trade anyone as long as you win.

Most of the habs players are young, so they are unlikely to return value in trades. It’s not do much that they shouldn’t ever be traded as that there probably wouldn’t be a good path to do so.

 

[HabbyGuy]

A lot of people thought they would be better. Panic firings and short term trades are not a good next move, regardless of how disappointed you are.

There's also plenty of time for improvement, we've already seen a gradual difference from October to November. It's a long season.

 

[Sorinth]

Imagine you are Hugues and Gorton what are you next 5 moves ?

Can you dress me a list of the next things we need to do to make the Habs contender in the long run?

Im very curious!

Next 5 moves aren't likely going to be the things that make the Habs a contender, ie dumping Dvorak is probably going to be one of those next 5 moves, needs to be done, but is rather meaningless in terms of turning us into a contender.

As for what long term we need to be a contender, we need some combination of better scoring, better defence, better goaltending. We are at a point where we kind of still need to wait and see because some of that is already going to move forward without any moves. For example Demidov coming over, and being a game breaker, it's not happening this year, and it might take a couple years for him to really hit his stride and be dominant. But it's anyones guess as to whether that will be enough to move our offence from middle of the pack (19th currently) to say top-5.

 

[Demigod]

Haven’t winning teams proven that there are no untouchables? You can trade anyone as long as you win.

Most of the habs players are young, so they are unlikely to return value in trades. It’s not do much that they shouldn’t ever be traded as that there probably wouldn’t be a good path to do so.

We just having fun. I know nobody is untouchable. If Gretzky was trade everybody can be trade.

But in your opinion which players in the rosters would you consider your core going forward. Putting in consideration that the Habs would probably be contender in 5 years minimum

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We just having fun. I know nobody is untouchable. If Gretzky was trade everybody can be trade.

But in your opinion which players in the rosters would you consider your core going forward. Putting in consideration that the Habs would probably be contender in 5 years minimum

Core players
Suzuki, Cc, Slaf, Demidov
Guhle, Hutson, RB
Fowler

Hopefully Big contributors
Roy, Beck, Hage (I would’ve had Dach here but he’s now a big question mark.)
Mallioux
Montie

Great group of young players. We need some size in the top six.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

1. Stay the course, remain patient, get a good look at what we have and what we need as the season unfolds.

2. Continue to draft strong and keep emphasis on development of our picks.

3. Try and fill holes revealed after this season after getting better read on situation. Either via trade (with our impressive capital) or free agency (with our healthier cap situation)

4. Wait for some help to arrive in terms of prospects already drafted.

5. Don't do anything stupid and make a panic move to try and appease neurotic rabid fanbase.

6. Give Marty, the guy the players love playing for, and has worked diligently with since his arrival, the time he deserves to prove if he can or can't get the job done.

Neurotic is a tad insulting, even though it's probably right.


I'd rather stay polite and say 'desperate for instant gratification'.

 

[dcyhabs]

We just having fun. I know nobody is untouchable. If Gretzky was trade everybody can be trade.

But in your opinion which players in the rosters would you consider your core going forward. Putting in consideration that the Habs would probably be contender in 5 years minimum

The Gretzky trade didn’t work out too well, and megastars don’t normally get traded, but the habs don’t really have anyone at that level. I’d keep Guhle and Suzuki unless someone offered something unreasonable.

I wouldn’t trade Demidov or Hage for anything I’d expect to be offered, but old habs teams, and teams like Vegas have shown that if a team is dumping a star you give what you have to give. If Hughes is high on Jiricek he could trade someone he would not otherwise give up. I don’t see him at that level, but I’m no expert.

Good teams pick up and fix busted prospects. I wouldn’t sell low on anyone under 24 or so. I’d be willing to trade one of the smaller guys for a slight loss to get a similar bigger guy with worse stats only because the team is a bit unbalanced. I doubt the team is built to win long, tough series. At the moment they can’t win many regular season games, so older guys are available.

 

[Sorinth]

LOL
There is a reason the stat is kept you know.
Basically at this point it means Dach is not having success with anyone 5v5.
He looks shit out there because he is shit out there it's not a case of him eating negatives because of anyone else.
When he starts playing better he won't get noticed for the wrong reasons that's how it works that's how it's always worked.

+/- isn't only 5v5 play, In fact nearly 40% of Dach's -18 has come from non-5-5 situations.

 

[BozoTheClown]

Dach and Newhook have 6 goals and 7 assists combined and are -28

Absolutely fantastic!

 

[ReHabs]

Dach and Newhook have 6 goals and 7 assists combined and are -28

Absolutely fantastic!

Will always amuse me how the same people gassing up Hutson (early 2nd) and Hage (late 1st) are also minimizing the acquisition cost of Thing 1 and Thing 2 (mid 1st, late 1st,& early 2nd). Basically the message is: whatever Hughes does is the right move.

Should bode well for our fanbase as the losses and mistakes pile up.

Imagine you are Hugues and Gorton what are you next 5 moves ?

Can you dress me a list of the next things we need to do to make the Habs contender in the long run?

Im very curious!

Very good question. It depends on the vision (strategy). Are the Habs meant to try to compete with Suzuki-Caufield (more concrete, more certain) as the protagonists or with Slafkovsky-Demidov-Hutson (more abstract, more uncertain)?

If the former, then we have to take steps to shore up the core today. If the latter, then we have to ensure the tank continues as smoothly as possible. The downside of the latter shouldn’t be lost: the uncertainty is a big negative factor.

I thought they wanted to compete with the Suzuki-Caufield core but now I am less certain. Despite what copesters peddle, Dach & Newhook have been complete whiffs so far. So let’s assume they felt like Suzuki-Caufield should get a taste of winning. This season’s calamitous start kinda forces our hand to both punt the season and hope the losing culture doesn’t get worse and more embedded.

1. Acquire an older middle6 C. I don’t have a name that comes to mind but someone like Corey Perry, Nick Foligno, or Max Pacioretty — an older player who does not mind being called on.

2a. If there is a positive response: hold steady and try to sell what we can at the TDL.

2b. If there is no response: Waive, demote, bench, scratch roster players who are irrelevant and dogging it and try to fire sale whatever is possible. The goal is to scare the relevant parties of the roster into playing a professional game.

2C. In the unlikely chance that the Habs soar up in the standings, I’d stand pat at the TDL.

3. Review the coaching staff. (Being not privy to the details, I’m not sure if HuGo are fully satisfied with MSL or not. Does he enjoy their confidence?)

4. Other than a huge change of fortune, the Habs are drafting top12. Gotta get a good one.

5. Evaluate the market for Matheson in the off-season.

Not very imaginative, I admit.

 

[austin316]

Everyone getting way too excited for a top 5 pick. I think we will likely finish around the 8-12 range and Calgary will be top 10 before the season ends.

 

[Naslund]

Imagine you are Hugues and Gorton what are you next 5 moves ?

Can you dress me a list of the next things we need to do to make the Habs contender in the long run?

Im very curious!

Great question!

Looking at this season, the state of our defense (very young) and the McKenna draft next year, I suspect the management team to be looking at at least two more tanking seasons (including the current one) before turning the corner. We cannot be competitive until our defense matures (>25 year-old average). Guhle and Hutson are already above-average NHLers, and getting better every game. A few more years for Struble and Xhekaj, and with some growth, they could be at least average players in this league. We just have to hope that a few between Reinbacher, Mailloux, Barron and Engstrom make it, with time, as impact Ds.

1. Trade Matheson for a first at the trade deadline (or ideally, asap), and trade Armia, Evans, Dvo, and Savard for what you can get. Matheson needs to go to give more playing time to our young players, to ensure mediocrity in 2025-2026 for McKenna, and because his value is peaking now.

2. Draft Porter Martone this year. To me, he is the guy we need the most out of this draft. Getting Martone-Hage-Demidov within two drafts ensure a solid 1st line for a 10-year period.

3. No UFA acquisition this off-season, and no trade to shore up the team. Play the kids (e.g., Mailloux, Barron, Reinbacher, Beck, Roy) and tank the hell of that season (2025-2026).

4. Trade Laine for a first at the trade deadline in 2026, and draft one of Mckenna/Belchetz/Roobroeck/Verhoeff at the draft in 2026.

5. Use draft capital and/or accumulated assets to shore up positions of weaknesses on the team in the summer of 2026 via trade, or use the UFA market.

 

[Ezpz]

I feel like the rebuild just started. They cut the ropes loose to let the young guys step up and few did. Guys like Dach, Newhook, most of the dmen and maybe even Slaf won't be core building blocks. Cole is more of a finishing piece than a building block. So basically we have Nick Suzuki, kaiden Guhle and lane Hutson. Demidov likely fits there too.

Tons of tanking left.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Lot of A votes,in this case does the A stand for abysmal?lol

No A stands for finally rebuilding after 2 decades of bad hockey .

Lots of tanking left buckle up. I love it

I feel like the rebuild just started. They cut the ropes loose to let the young guys step up and few did. Guys like Dach, Newhook, most of the dmen and maybe even Slaf won't be core building blocks. Cole is more of a finishing piece than a building block. So basically we have Nick Suzuki, kaiden Guhle and lane Hutson. Demidov likely fits there too.

Tons of tanking left.

The fans thought we were gonna a cup with Suzuki at 1C and Caufield at 1W.

What did they think the tank was for? Newhook and Dach?

 

[BergevinBurner]

Everyone getting way too excited for a top 5 pick. I think we will likely finish around the 8-12 range and Calgary will be top 10 before the season ends.

I have a hard time seeing 7-11 teams performing worse than us. I think Chicago, San Jose and Ahaheim will be our main competition. Teams like Nashville, Ottawa and Detroit are underachieving and I expect them to pick it up at some point sooner or later.

 

[Ezpz]

No A stands for finally rebuilding after 2 decades of bad hockey .

Lots of tanking left buckle up. I love it


The fans thought we were gonna a cup with Suzuki at 1C and Caufield at 1W.

What did they think the tank was for? Newhook and Dach?

Nick can do it. He filled the role on a finals team as practically a rookie. But he's on the bergeron/krejci tier where he's an important piece but not the important piece. We need to be elite everywhere else for that to work the way the bruins were with Chara and Thomas as the best d and best goalie in the league at certain points.

But ideally another c as good or better would work. You still need good vets and leaders though and Nick is that. He's not going to fall off a cliff suddenly, he could easily be a 2c til he's 35. I mean eichel never flirted more than a ppg in his career while being nothing defensively and was honestly the Conn Smythe choice until marchessault had a good game in the finals

Cole you always have to worry will suffer a shoulder or wrist injury that permanently affects his shot then he's not bringing much else. Brian gionta, Brendan Gallagher, it happens all the time.

I almost feel like the actual core has yet to be drafted and we will actually build the right way starting with Fowler and Guhle/Hutson so they're experienced when the elite forwards come through. I really don't see any IQ in slafs game 6/10 games. I don't know if he'll get smarter or not but he may just end up a high end third kostitsyn.

I definitely expected more from some of these guys but it's clear they're not grabbing the chance they've been given. Obviously some will progress more but who would have thought Monahan was such a massive loss.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Will always amuse me how the same people gassing up Hutson (early 2nd) and Hage (late 1st) are also minimizing the acquisition cost of Thing 1 and Thing 2 (mid 1st, late 1st,& early 2nd). Basically the message is: whatever Hughes does is the right move.

More schtick from you.

Those were solid moves. Especially the Dach trade. The Canadiens have stockpiled picks and prospects at a high lebel since Hugo came in. It makes sense to leverage some of those picks into prospects. This has been discussed on these boards long before Hugo got here.

Entirely possible that you won’t get the right result. But those kinds of moves make perfect sense in a rebuild.