The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[ReHabs]

We don't even know they were wrong and probably won't know for another 5+ years and that's if we would ever know, ie it's still debateable if taking Price or Kopitar would have been the better choice in 05.

It’ll feel better to accept today we didn’t get the budding star. If things turn around for Reinbacher and the Habs, it’ll feel even better then. So be it. It’s honestly fine.

The cope (“he never wanted to come here//he illegally manoeuvred to Philadelphia”) and the barely contained rage (“the wrist slitting collective”) are 100% unnecessary.

Not every one of our tank picks was gonna be the right one. It never is and never will be. If Reinbacher ends up being the RD we need that’s totally good and acceptable… I think we can think that and still pine for Michkov the budding superstar and also use it as a data point against blindly supporting the brain trust. All fine, imo. Never too high, never too low.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

How does it apply here? It has nothing to do with the current rebuild.

The lenght of the rebuild will be dependant on the strenght of management's choices. That pick is one of several key choices they made. We have a right to question those choices as they have everything to do with the rebuild.

 

[habdynasty]

Time to look thru the windshield and not the rear view mirror, what’s done is done. Let’s hope Demidov is the real deal

Go Habs go

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

We don't even know they were wrong and probably won't know for another 5+ years and that's if we would ever know, ie it's still debateable if taking Price or Kopitar would have been the better choice in 05.

It looks like they were right about Demidov so whoever evaluated the players (Bobrov Sr) got that one. There is no reason to believe that they got Michkov wrong. He is likely a selfish player. And as i have said before anyone who WANTS to play for Philly is an idiot

The lenght of the rebuild will be dependant on the strenght of management's choices. That pick is one of several key choices they made. We have a right to question those choices as they have everything to do with the rebui

It has nothing to do with what they need to do to complete the next step which is the header on the thread.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It’ll feel better to accept today we didn’t get the budding star. If things turn around for Reinbacher and the Habs, it’ll feel even better then. So be it. It’s honestly fine.

The cope (“he never wanted to come here//he illegally manoeuvred to Philadelphia”) and the barely contained rage (“the wrist slitting collective”) are 100% unnecessary.

Not every one of our tank picks was gonna be the right one. It never is and never will be. If Reinbacher ends up being the RD we need that’s totally good and acceptable… I think we can think that and still pine for Michkov the budding superstar and also use it as a data point against blindly supporting the brain trust. All fine, imo. Never too high, never too low.

Pretty much this. I get why it happened but this absurd 180 that occurred between Bergevin and HuGo was always bound to lead to disappointment here and there and the 'THESE GODS CAN DO NO WRONG' crowd should eat a little bit of crow, especially since they spent years terrorizing this board with their incessant whining in years prior, even when the team won a bunch of games (not that I disagreed with a lot of the criticism, I started realizing Bergevin was an idiot at the 2015 TDL and completely lost faith in him when he let us sink with Condon/Scrivens the year after).

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It looks like they were right about Demidov so whoever evaluated the players (Bobrov Sr) got that one. There is no reason to believe that they got Michkov wrong. He is likely a selfish player. And as i have said before anyone who WANTS to play for Philly is an idiot


It has nothing to do with what they need to do to complete the rebuild wich is what this thread should be about.

You don't get to chose what this thread should be about. The title says it. State of the rebuild. The state of the rebuild is dependant on the choices management has made and will make. If you don't like the comments about Michkov, just simply ignore them. As an adult, you should have that capacity. To simply disregard comments if you know it triggers you. Take some responsibility for yourself instead of trying to impose your framework for discussion.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

You don't get to chose what this thread should be about. The title says it. State of the rebuild. The state of the rebuild is dependant on the choices management has made and will make. If you don't like the comments about Michkov, just simply ignore them. As an adult, you should have that capacity. To simply disregard comments if you know it triggers you. Take some responsibility for yourself instead of trying to impose your framework for discussion.

Then get rid of The Next Step of the title.

 

[Sorinth]

It’ll feel better to accept today we didn’t get the budding star. If things turn around for Reinbacher and the Habs, it’ll feel even better then. So be it. It’s honestly fine.

The cope (“he never wanted to come here//he illegally manoeuvred to Philadelphia”) and the barely contained rage (“the wrist slitting collective”) are 100% unnecessary.

Not every one of our tank picks was gonna be the right one. It never is and never will be. If Reinbacher ends up being the RD we need that’s totally good and acceptable… I think we can think that and still pine for Michkov the budding superstar and also use it as a data point against blindly supporting the brain trust. All fine, imo. Never too high, never too low.

I wanted us to draft Michkov, but you know what, a few days after the draft I stopped caring about Michkov and what he will do and I can tell you it feels way better then "accepting a loss" ever would.

Like seriously how can think "still pine for Michkov" is in any way better then just moving on? Do you think pining for an ex a year after the breakup is healthy or feels better then moving on from what could've been and focusing on the future with the new significant other who is frankly probably even better (Demidov)?


Now that said, given that there's a gone but not forgotten thread to talk about all the ex-Habs, I'd have no issue with there being a could've would've should've thread where talk is focused on guys we didn't draft, trades we didn't make, and similar non-habs player discusssion of what could've been.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Then get rid of The Next Step of the title.

As if both can't be or shouldn't be talked about at the same time

be an adult, just ignore what triggers you.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

As if both can't be or shouldn't be talked about at the same time

be an adult, just ignore what triggers you.

But we aren't. There are just a lot of posters whining about Michkov here.

 

[ReHabs]

I wanted us to draft Michkov, but you know what, a few days after the draft I stopped caring about Michkov and what he will do and I can tell you it feels way better then "accepting a loss" ever would.

I did the exact same thing (and my post history would support this!!).

I accepted that if Michkov burst out, it wouldn’t ruin my mood. I still root for Michkov’s success and that’s perfectly fine with me.

Like seriously how can think "still pine for Michkov" is in any way better than just moving on? Do you think pining for an ex a year after the breakup is healthy or feels better then moving on from what could've been and focusing on the future with the new significant other who is frankly probably even better (Demidov)?

It’s not the same as pining after an ex. Until Demidov or Reinbacher or even Caufield/Slafkvosky makes us forget about missing out on a star forward we will always feel the lack of a star forward.

You had people here cope and mope about how it’s totally fine Slafkovsky had a 10pt rookie season. Michkov is on 9pts in 8gp. Applying the same standards would reveal that we did, indeed, miss out and it did affect our rebuild. Until it doesn’t, it’s perfectly fine to think we f***ed up in this case.

 

[Sorinth]

I did the exact same thing (and my post history would support this!!).

I accepted that if Michkov burst out, it wouldn’t ruin my mood. I still root for Michkov’s success and that’s perfectly fine with me.

It’s not the same as pining after an ex. Until Demidov or Reinbacher or even Caufield/Slafkvosky makes us forget about missing out on a star forward we will always feel the lack of a star forward.

You had people here cope and mope about how it’s totally fine Slafkovsky had a 10pt rookie season. Michkov is on 9pts in 8gp. Applying the same standards would reveal that we did, indeed, miss out and it did affect our rebuild. Until it doesn’t, it’s perfectly fine to think we f***ed up in this case.

We haven't missed out on a star forward we passed on a potential star forward. It takes more then 8 games to go from being a potential star to an actual star.

And yes I told people like you to relax about Slaf's lack of production as a rookie and that it didn't mean much, and applying the same standard is exactly why we shouldn't anoint Michkov as a star just yet. It takes time, now sure Michkov is well on his way to being a star, but the hardest part of actually being a star in the NHL is finding the consistency to do it for 82 games. It's why we can't even say Slaf is a star yet, he hasn't done it for long enough.

I'd also saying that as of right now it hasn't impacted our rebuild at all, it may in the future be something we look back at and say we F-ed up, but right now we shouldn't say that becuase it's not true, we don't know if we F-ed up or not.

 

[themilosh]

They salivate more when Savard is in the ice lol.

You can ignore all you want.. there is not one player in the NHL who is "nervous" when Hutson is playing... this is the crux of the Habs' current D woes, and also why he dropped to #62.. sure he will get better... but the reality always remains = Defense wins championships...

if forwards are not nervous about being crushed on the forecheck, they are going to rule the roost. We are witnessing EXACTLY what happens when you put a snall forward on D.. no difference than if CC was D.. useless.

Sooner we can flip him for a top 6 (to an unsuspecting gm) the better..

CC + Hutson + Dach + (gally/dvorak/or Andy for cap issues) to Vancouver for E. Pettersson. This is how you land a 1C!

They would def bite at this as it would provide immediate help to their team. And give us, the desperately needed top 6 centre..

 

[WeThreeKings]

The problem is this is being used as the 'tank thread' which will still be relevant to a degree this year.

Just make another thread that's dedicated to drafting during the rebuild, then the Michkov non-selection shit can comfortably sit in it and I can ignore it.

This 6 degrees of Michkov in every thread is just a cop out to allow the whining to permeate the entire board.

And yes, I'm aware the whining about whining about Michkov is a paradox. But there's gotta be a better way to structure this so people who have moved on from the fact they didn't make that pick, for a plethora of reasons some choose to ignore, can still enjoy discussing the Habs and the rebuild, without having to be dragged back to one single decision. A single decision that had so much context around it, that it wasn't as simple as just picking the guy and failing to recognize those nuances is just opening the door to yelling at the clouds about it.

Even Khusnutdinov just spoke out about how the Russian media portrayed Michkov.

 

[Sorinth]

With the win last night we are 2-1-1 against teams that are hoping/expected to "be in the mix", and 1-3 against the contenders/pretenders. Which lines up fairly well with what the expectations should be.

 

[RationalExpectations]

You can ignore all you want.. there is not one player in the NHL who is "nervous" when Hutson is playing... this is the crux of the Habs' current D woes, and also why he dropped to #62.. sure he will get better... but the reality always remains = Defense wins championships...

if forwards are not nervous about being crushed on the forecheck, they are going to rule the roost. We are witnessing EXACTLY what happens when you put a snall forward on D.. no difference than if CC was D.. useless.

Sooner we can flip him for a top 6 (to an unsuspecting gm) the better..

CC + Hutson + Dach + (gally/dvorak/or Andy for cap issues) to Vancouver for E. Pettersson. This is how you land a 1C!

They would def bite at this as it would provide immediate help to their team. And give us, the desperately needed top 6 centre..

VAN is my second team, they'd have 0 second line center and already a pure sniper in Boeser and a dynamic offensive Dman in Q. Hughes. No chance they'd accept this.

 

[HuGort]

Would have been nice. Then trade all the excess assets we have and bolster the D through trade/UFA

Yup, Hughes have to package multiple young players/picks for big piece in near future

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The problem is this is being used as the 'tank thread' which will still be relevant to a degree this year.

Just make another thread that's dedicated to drafting during the rebuild, then the Michkov non-selection shit can comfortably sit in it and I can ignore it.

This 6 degrees of Michkov in every thread is just a cop out to allow the whining to permeate the entire board.

And yes, I'm aware the whining about whining about Michkov is a paradox. But there's gotta be a better way to structure this so people who have moved on from the fact they didn't make that pick, for a plethora of reasons some choose to ignore, can still enjoy discussing the Habs and the rebuild, without having to be dragged back to one single decision. A single decision that had so much context around it, that it wasn't as simple as just picking the guy and failing to recognize those nuances is just opening the door to yelling at the clouds about it.

Even Khusnutdinov just spoke out about how the Russian media portrayed Michkov.

Honestly, people can whine about Michkov all they want. I really don't care much about those posts. What I do care about is the state of where we're at and I continue to think that we're in a great spot. The RB injury sucks. But he's so young that it shouldn't affect much long term. Let him heal and come back.

We're still stacked at forward and stacked at D in terms of youth and prospects. Very few teams in the league have the depth and talent that we do. Hutson has come in and absolutely crushed it. All of a sudden our PP is firing at 25 percent and he's just getting started. Caufield is back... that bodes incredibly well for us long term. Question marks remain with Dach and not all of our D will pan out. Reinbacher looked like a pretty safe pick (even if he we believe we could've done better elsewhere) and I see no reason to doubt this.

The season started crappy. I don't think we'll be that bad by the end of the year but even if we are, it simply yields us another big pick. And as much as I'd want us finishing higher this year, a high pick would be a great consolation prize.

Honestly, where's the weakness long term? I don't see one. The forwards have tons of talent. Same with the D. Montie's killing it in net and we've still got Fowler out there. The only thing I think I'd like to see is a little more size up front. But that's not that hard to acquire given the assets we have.

So let people bitch about Michkov all they want. We saw the same kind of nonsense in the Slaf thread and those people are going to clown themselves no matter what. I don't really care. And even if RB doesn't pan out and Michkov does... it doesn't change the fact that we're killing it on the rebuild. We might even wind up with the two best players from the 22 draft. There's just so much to be excited about. If people want to clown themselves with doomsday stuff... that's fine.

It was the same with Carey Price. We had tons of people who clowned themselves there. What happened? He became a blue chip HOFer who led crap teams to playoff steals and a final. It's the same thing here. We've got tons of great talent and people will continue to shit all over it. Let them, that's the nature of fandom. If we lose three games in a row we NEED to fire the coach - it's always been that way. Last year you had guys who wanted to dump Caufield for Pete's sake.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We haven't missed out on a star forward we passed on a potential star forward. It takes more then 8 games to go from being a potential star to an actual star.

And yes I told people like you to relax about Slaf's lack of production as a rookie and that it didn't mean much, and applying the same standard is exactly why we shouldn't anoint Michkov as a star just yet. It takes time, now sure Michkov is well on his way to being a star, but the hardest part of actually being a star in the NHL is finding the consistency to do it for 82 games. It's why we can't even say Slaf is a star yet, he hasn't done it for long enough.

I'd also saying that as of right now it hasn't impacted our rebuild at all, it may in the future be something we look back at and say we F-ed up, but right now we shouldn't say that becuase it's not true, we don't know if we F-ed up or not.

I'd say there's enough there now to assume Michkov will likely be an offensive star. Good for him.

It doesn't mean squat to us right now though. We've built a club that has a nice balance and RB is a huge piece of it. Sucks that he got hurt and we'll have to wait but it is what it is. He'll be back and that will be a big help as we need a steady hand back there and he looks like he can provide it.

I've said this so many times on here but I'll say it again, we won't know if this was the right pick for years. It's the same with Slaf -who's gotten off to a great start - and so many others. It's different if you get a Hutson or Roy late. You KNOW you got a steal. But those higher picks take time to evaluate. You left something on the table for something else. And not all players develop at the same rate. Blueliners especially take more time.

I suspect this year will be a lot of drive by posts like 'Shoulda taken this guy. Hughes is drunk...' etc. Brace yourself because it's already here. But long term that doesn't matter a whole lot. Those kinds of posts can go in the Out of Town thread though... not here.

 

[Walksss]

you've derailed that thread for like 4 pages to make it about you and the fact that you don't wanna hear about michkov because it derails the thread, by the way

The Michkov narrative is objectively exhausting and embarrassing, its long past time for some people to let it go. The amount of crying that goes on when grown men don't get what they want on these boards is simply pathetic, it makes the place unreadable, I'm sorry you can't see that.

The best (but obviously worst) part is that any comment about moving on from that discussion in lieu of more relevant topics is usually quoted with some accusation of derailing the thread, as you have exemplified here. Michkov is actually the great derailer of threads. Well, that and the whining, but we all know that's not going anywhere so we gotta hope that the whining sticks with players that actually play for the Habs.

What we really need is a pinned thread at the top of the forum that says in all caps 'Come cry in here'. It would be the most used thread in the history of HF.

 

[Sorinth]

Honestly, people can whine about Michkov all they want. I really don't care much about those posts. What I do care about is the state of where we're at and I continue to think that we're in a great spot. The RB injury sucks. But he's so young that it shouldn't affect much long term. Let him heal and come back.

We're still stacked at forward and stacked at D in terms of youth and prospects. Very few teams in the league have the depth and talent that we do. Hutson has come in and absolutely crushed it. All of a sudden our PP is firing at 25 percent and he's just getting started. Caufield is back... that bodes incredibly well for us long term. Question marks remain with Dach and not all of our D will pan out. Reinbacher looked like a pretty safe pick (even if he we believe we could've done better elsewhere) and I see no reason to doubt this.

The season started crappy. I don't think we'll be that bad by the end of the year but even if we are, it simply yields us another big pick. And as much as I'd want us finishing higher this year, a high pick would be a great consolation prize.

Honestly, where's the weakness long term? I don't see one. The forwards have tons of talent. Same with the D. Montie's killing it in net and we've still got Fowler out there. The only thing I think I'd like to see is a little more size up front. But that's not that hard to acquire given the assets we have.

So let people bitch about Michkov all they want. We saw the same kind of nonsense in the Slaf thread and those people are going to clown themselves no matter what. I don't really care. And even if RB doesn't pan out and Michkov does... it doesn't change the fact that we're killing it on the rebuild. We might even wind up with the two best players from the 22 draft. There's just so much to be excited about. If people want to clown themselves with doomsday stuff... that's fine.

It was the same with Carey Price. We had tons of people who clowned themselves there. What happened? He became a blue chip HOFer who led crap teams to playoff steals and a final. It's the same thing here. We've got tons of great talent and people will continue to shit all over it. Let them, that's the nature of fandom. If we lose three games in a row we NEED to fire the coach - it's always been that way. Last year you had guys who wanted to dump Caufield for Pete's sake.

Yes people will post wild hot takes no matter what but there's certainly a case for directing that stuff towards a single thread rather then let it pollute other threads. Michkov is the name right now, but not too long ago it was Cooley, and before that it was Takchuk, before that it was Kreider and Giroux, and every single player drafted in 2003 instead of A. Kost.

I don't think at this particular moment the Michkov stuff is all that bad, we've certainly seen worse so sure we can let it slide for now and then try to deal with it when it next comes up. But why not just have a dedicated thread for players who we could've drafted but didn't. We have a thread for all the ex-habs it wouldn't be much different.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes people will post wild hot takes no matter what but there's certainly a case for directing that stuff towards a single thread rather then let it pollute other threads. Michkov is the name right now, but not too long ago it was Cooley, and before that it was Takchuk, before that it was Kreider and Giroux, and every single player drafted in 2003 instead of A. Kost.

I don't think at this particular moment the Michkov stuff is all that bad, we've certainly seen worse so sure we can let it slide for now and then try to deal with it when it next comes up. But why not just have a dedicated thread for players who we could've drafted but didn't. We have a thread for all the ex-habs it wouldn't be much different.

Some topics bleed into different threads. For example, do we only talk about Caufield in the Caufield thread? No.

Michkov is relevant in Out of Town and he can be discussed here.

As I said though, in this thread there are limits. We're not going to allow the kind of drive by posts that we might allow in the Out of Town. Here, Michkov can be discussed within the context of the rebuild. 'Should we have gone with Michkov instead of RB' is a valid question if you're talking about a rebuild. If it's a thought out argument and you want to make it... by all means do so.

But if you want to make a driveby post, save that kind of crappy stuff for the Out of Town thread. This thread is not going to be allowed to turn into a whine fest. We can discuss the pick and the direction of the rebuild but there are limits. Driveby crappy posts should be reported and they'll be removed.

 

[Sorinth]

Some topics bleed into different threads. For example, do we only talk about Caufield in the Caufield thread? No.

Michkov is relevant in Out of Town and he can be discussed here.

As I said though, in this thread there are limits. We're not going to allow the kind of drive by posts that we might allow in the Out of Town. Here, Michkov can be discussed within the context of the rebuild. 'Should we have gone with Michkov instead of RB' is a valid question if you're talking about a rebuild. If it's a thought out argument and you want to make it... by all means do so.

But if you want to make a driveby post, save that kind of crappy stuff for the Out of Town thread. This thread is not going to be allowed to turn into a whine fest. We can discuss the pick and the direction of the rebuild but there are limits. Driveby crappy posts should be reported and they'll be removed.

Not to be accusatory since being a mod is a thankless job, but history shows us that things tend to get very bad/toxic long before the mods step in. Like I said I don't think right now it is anywhere close to that toxic level so I can understand the tolerance, it's just a dedicated thread that isn't the OOT thread where all of that "discussion" could take place would probably make for a healthier board.

Anyways that's the last I'll say about it since these posts could also be considered pollution for what should be a thread about the next steps in the rebuild.

 

[Whitesnake]

Tough to disregard the Michkov non-pick to give a note to a habs rebuild.....If you don't want Michkov name, change the thread....and name it...''.Let's discuss the Habs rebuild today with the players we have now and upcoming''...lollll''

 

[Tabarouette]

I *honestly* don't know what the right call is with Jake Evans, and i'm his #1 fan

he will never be anything more than a perfect 4th line center, he does bring some veteran vibes to the team (my man is 28 already), everyone seems to like him