The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Lafleurs Guy]

Starting Slaf in the AHL would have done absolutely nothing.

I think it probably would've been better for it. I'm glad he was able to succeed but that doesn't necessarily mean we did him any favours. The turning point was when we finally started pairing him with better players in season two. He was great with Caufield (even though CC was snakebit) and then formed a great line with him and Nick.

I suspect it would've happened earlier if Dach were healthy but season one looked like a mistake to me. Either way, I think season one he was a little over his head.

In any event, it doesn't really matter now. He's grown by leaps and bounds and I expect good things from him this season.

 

[StCaufield]

Because he's assessing the actual talent and ability on the roster...

Last year, our top 6 forwards in ice time:
Suzuki
Caufield
Slafkovsky
Evans
Anderson
Gallagher


Injuries are always a concern (though note that 4-5-6 last year are all fwds with significant injury history themselves), but the internal progression of our U25 players and a bit better injury luck would/wil make a significant impact on our performance.

We lack the top of the roster established elite skill & depth to make this team a contender or a playoff lock... Pretty sure he's well aware of that.

But if we are able to get 70+ games out of our top 5 forwards as did the Panthers, Oilers, Stars, Canes*, Bruins, Rangers, Leafs etc. last year, then absolutely this forward group will provide enough to have us compete for a PO spot.


I think many Habs fans seriously underestimate the impact of injuries on our results the past few years. When you are a league leader in games lost, and you lose key top 6/top4 players for big stretches, it matters... Likewise, even for contenders, having a healthy year from your top performers is crucial to success.


*Canes Svech only played 59, but they added Guentzel for 17 reg season.

I took injuries into consideration and the fact is that the team is glass and has been for years. I don’t know why. Not sure why he’d say he wants the team to contend with an absolute shit bottom 6 even when healthy

Well from everything I've gathered listening to what is being said I don't think they are pushing the P word.
They said the P word is in the conversation but what they are really pushing is the C word.
It makes sense if things go according to plan they should be able to tighten up the differential which will lead to more points.
I honestly think they just want to be hanging around towards TDL. The idea is to be playing and winning more meaningful games.
At this point I think they loved the draft but I don't think they got what they wanted in terms of roster ready upgrades.

Yeah depth forwards aren’t really panic moves though. I’m not saying empty the farm here haha. We have an abundance of picks and defensive prospect depth a team can dream of. With those assets we need to balance them out and add a forward or 2. I don’t care if Anderson sits or Gallagher

 

[Miller Time]

I took injuries into consideration and the fact is that the team is glass and has been for years. I don’t know why. Not sure why he’d say he wants the team to contend with an absolute shit bottom 6 even when healthy

Contend for a cup or contemd for a playoff spot? Two very different things.

He & Gorton see that the roster, as is, can compete for a playoff spot. Health is a huge part of that, to be sure, but they ain't wrong.

And the current bottom 6, if it stays in bottom 6 usage, is far closer to "stellar" than to "shit"...

 

[ReHabs]

They said the P word is in the conversation but what they are really pushing is the C word.

Crappy?

He & Gorton see that the roster, as is, can compete for a playoff spot. Health is a huge part of that, to be sure, but they ain't wrong.

Health has gone sideways against them and this team's shallow depth every year, that's three years in a row.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Crappy?


Health has gone sideways against them and this team's shallow depth every year, that's three years in a row.

Health problem is because we have a crappy team. A bit of bad luck in the case of Dach but knowing nhl today became a tought sport, Habs are injury prone in that context.

 

[Sherwoo9]

What’s hard to judge is the moves (or moves not done) that we don’t see. That’s why I tend to give an A so far but the hard part is still to come. Sure I would a loved a Carlsson instead of Reinbacher… but it wasn’t possible. We are still waiting for anchor contracts to expire while the core is growing. Making the « right » moves is critical since you need the right pieces and not just good pieces. That’s why I am glad we didn’t get Dubois or even Zegras (not comparing the two). Laine is a different animal since we would aim at him rebounding and capitalize, but I don’t know the character so I’m okay if they don’t go there also.

I think we can stay the course for now, while the core mature, keep adding assets on the way. Even tho we might have good pieces already, keeping the window open is about value contracts. Choosing which assets to keep or sell based not only on talent but also on anticipated cost vs value, while acquiring value contracts to put in the right chairs.

2025-26 might see more than usual teams trying to tear down the remains of their roster for a chance at McKenna, what leads to Hertl type deals. I.e. good overpaid players with term, traded with enough retention to bring them in the buyers salary structure. Brandon Hagel is another exemple of deal that will require assets when the time is right.

Another year of finishing within lottery reach (7-10) and adding 2-3 other top 60 picks would give us these kind of assets that, if well managed, will maximize and extend our window. And who knows, we might as well luck out and end this rebuild with a lottery win like the rangers did at 7.

 

[Rapala]

Crappy?


Health has gone sideways against them and this team's shallow depth every year, that's three years in a row.

Yeah total shit.
No progression no optimism no fun...
Just like last season.

Maybe you should take into consideration what we've had to deal with.
1) A complete rebuild of our defense and goaltending starting from scratch.
2) A nearly complete rebuild of our top 6 which is still in progression.
3) A complete overhaul of our bottom 6 including replacing ineffective key role players which has not yet filtered up to the NHL level.
4) More than a handful of useless players on terrible contracts coupled with an inability to move our prime assets (Price Weber) for anything.

While you may claim there were a couple of assets in our system they definitely weren't proven at the NHL level.
Wow we are only starting to use the words competitive and playoffs after the third year.
Surprising.

 

[yianik]

I believe that in Suzuki, Caufield and Slaf we have 3 top 6F and likely 3 top line players. A healthy Dach is a 2C and I believe Demidov will be a top 6F if not top line player. I know many aren't excited about Newhook but Hughes didn't trade for him seeing him as a 3rd liner, clearly he was obtained to be top 6.

So there are " ifs" and "beliefs" but I think its reasonable to take the approach we have at least 5 top 6F. So we are in reasonable shape in the top 6.

It's the D where in my view we have only one young guy, Guhle, who has earned a top 4 spot , and he is a 2D in my view. The other 3 top 4D spots are up in the air. If 2 of the offensive minded guys of Mailloux, Reinbacher, Hutson and Barron can grab spots 1 and 3, I have confidence somebody grabs spot 4, like a Xhekaj , Struble, Engstrom.

It will take time for the D just starting to play pro to develop their game, and most likely start play in the AHL, but we should see something earlier than later in their offensive ability. This year and next year will be a huge deal on the D.

Likely at worst we need to add a forward through free agency or trade. At D we have legit guys to play for the 1 and 3 spots, but nothing concrete yet.

In net we should have at least average goaltending.

We have assets to trade and will have even more after guys like Armia, Savard, Matheson ( not this year) get moved. Also on D young guys will get moved over the next 2 years.

I think we compete for the play offs next year. This year we finish with the 8th-12th OA pick.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I believe that in Suzuki, Caufield and Slaf we have 3 top 6F and likely 3 top line players. A healthy Dach is a 2C and I believe Demidov will be a top 6F if not top line player. I know many aren't excited about Newhook but Hughes didn't trade for him seeing him as a 3rd liner, clearly he was obtained to be top 6.

So there are " ifs" and "beliefs" but I think its reasonable to take the approach we have at least 5 top 6F. So we are in reasonable shape in the top 6.

It's the D where in my view we have only one young guy, Guhle, who has earned a top 4 spot , and he is a 2D in my view. The other 3 top 4D spots are up in the air. If 2 of the offensive minded guys of Mailloux, Reinbacher, Hutson and Barron can grab spots 1 and 3, I have confidence somebody grabs spot 4, like a Xhekaj , Struble, Engstrom.

It will take time for the D just starting to play pro to develop their game, and most likely start play in the AHL, but we should see something earlier than later in their offensive ability. This year and next year will be a huge deal on the D.

Likely at worst we need to add a forward through free agency or trade. At D we have legit guys to play for the 1 and 3 spots, but nothing concrete yet.

In net we should have at least average goaltending.

We have assets to trade and will have even more after guys like Armia, Savard, Matheson ( not this year) get moved. Also on D young guys will get moved over the next 2 years.

I think we compete for the play offs next year. This year we finish with the 8th-12th OA pick.

Exactly. I am sure HuGo would love to add a young scoring line forward for the right price. Preferably one who could play centre if Dach goes down. Then they would have 2 lines plus Roy and Armia to fill in if there are injuries.

 

[ReHabs]

Yeah total shit.
No progression no optimism no fun...
Just like last season.

Maybe you should take into consideration what we've had to deal with.
1) A complete rebuild of our defense and goaltending starting from scratch.
2) A nearly complete rebuild of our top 6 which is still in progression.
3) A complete overhaul of our bottom 6 including replacing ineffective key role players which has not yet filtered up to the NHL level.
4) More than a handful of useless players on terrible contracts coupled with an inability to move our prime assets (Price Weber) for anything.

While you may claim there were a couple of assets in our system they definitely weren't proven at the NHL level.
Wow we are only starting to use the words competitive and playoffs after the third year.
Surprising.

Do you think a team should make the playoffs before it expects to win multiple playoff rounds y/n?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Health problem is because we have a crappy team. A bit of bad luck in the case of Dach but knowing nhl today became a tought sport, Habs are injury prone in that context.

Health has nothing to do with the talent level of the team.

Do you think a team should make the playoffs before it expects to win multiple playoff rounds y/n?

No. Habs could very well go quite far in the playoffs the first time they make them.

 

[Rapala]

Do you think a team should make the playoffs before it expects to win multiple playoff rounds y/n?

Obviously but I also believe a team has to show they can play above .500 before discussing any of this.
The playoff word was used last season by the players but they aren't dumb they know where it's at.
I'm simply looking to win more games than we lose with improvements in key areas as a good season.
The entire sentiment of the post season has been based on how many games we were relevant in last season.
All this despite having huge holes in multiple areas. Competitive would be playing in and around the bubble until TDL.

 

[ReHabs]

No. Habs could very well go quite far in the playoffs the first time they make them.

You expect this Habs team to win multiple playoff rounds (ie. make the Eastern Conference Final) the first time they make the playoffs?

 

[ReHabs]

Obviously but I also believe a team has to show they can play above .500 before discussing any of this.
The playoff word was used last season by the players but they aren't dumb they know where it's at.
I'm simply looking to win more games than we lose with improvements in key areas as a good season.
The entire sentiment of the post season has been based on how man games we were relevant in last season.
All this despite having huge holes in multiple areas. Competitive would be playing in and around the bubble until TDL.

We’re largely on the same page. I don’t understand the insistence on a distinction.

We all want improvement and progress. But…

This bottom6 and this top6 does not have the necessary depth to endure even ten man-games lost. If Suzuki goes down for just ten games I don’t think we can win more than four of them with Dach and Dvorak/Evans as our 1-2 Cs.

I’m not saying one way or the other which is the best route forward but there’s no point denying it: it is looking like another tank season.

Whether you think that’s fine or good is up to you. Many of us will be disappointing to finish bottom5-8 again and play meaningless games well before the TDL.

 

[Angler]

I wish there was a A- or B+ choice.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

You expect this Habs team to win multiple playoff rounds (ie. make the Eastern Conference Final) the first time they make the playoffs?

No I don't expect it but is very possible. Especially if it takes a couple of more years to make them.

We’re largely on the same page. I don’t understand the insistence on a distinction.

We all want improvement and progress. But…

This bottom6 and this top6 does not have the necessary depth to endure even ten man-games lost. If Suzuki goes down for just ten games I don’t think we can win more than four of them with Dach and Dvorak/Evans as our 1-2 Cs.

I’m not saying one way or the other which is the best route forward but there’s no point denying it: it is looking like another tank season.

Whether you think that’s fine or good is up to you. Many of us will be disappointing to finish bottom5-8 again and play meaningless games well before the TDL.

The games won't be meaningless. Mgmt will be looking for the younger players to keep improving and if they are out of contention giving AHL prospects an audtion.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The games won't be meaningless. Mgmt will be looking for the younger players to keep improving and if they are out of contention giving AHL prospects an audtion.

Yes and many of us feel that we've done enough of that. It's time to take that next step and play meaningful games until the end of the year. As things stand, this looks unlikely.

 

[ReHabs]

No I don't expect it but is very possible. Especially if it takes a couple of more years to make them.

Two more years of missing the playoffs??

The games won't be meaningless. Mgmt will be looking for the younger players to keep improving and if they are out of contention giving AHL prospects an audtion.

Which AHL prospects?

 

[KevSkillz4]

The rebuild will be over if Calgary pick 1st in 2025, MTL will receive the 3rd pick of CGY in 2025 AND the better pick between CGY//FLA in 2026. OMG!!

In the event Calgary's 2025 first (1st) round choice is the first (1st) selection overall in the 2025 NHL Draft (following the determination of the 2025 NHL Draft lottery results), Calgary will retain its own 2025 first (1st) round choice and Montreal shall instead receive Calgary's own 2025 third (3rd) round choice and a conditional 2026 first (1st) round choice. Montreal shall receive the better of Calgary's 2026 first (1st) round choice or Florida's 2026 first (1st) round choice (following the determination of the 2026 NHL Draft lottery results) (previously conditionally acquired by Calgary).

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Yes and many of us feel that we've done enough of that. It's time to take that next step and play meaningful games until the end of the year. As things stand, this looks unlikely.

It depends on the rebuild. Chicago, for example, was ahead of the game. They did not really have any dead meat on the roster. HuGo were left some good players and a lot of dead wood which entails a longer rebuild. It also depends on if the right trade opportunities arise. If they can add a forward or 2 without impeding the rebuild then they could contend for a playoff spot this season. Otherwise I expect next season to be the season they go for it.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

The majority of HuGo's draft choices will become NHL players because they know how to evaluate players abilty, character and willingness to work to improve.

No they won’t. Just like every other teams don’t.

 

[MXD]

I'd give an A.
But it feels like giving an A for an incomplete copy.

 

[Rapala]

I'd give an A.
But it feels like giving an A for an incomplete copy.

True.
That is why I only gave a grade for structural change which was an A.
I believe the Organization's make-over is done. I don't expect much of anything else except tweaks as needed.
Only time will tell if it pays off with the on the ice product but we are definitely forging an identity which Hughes calls "Our Game".
Either our players are all great actors or there is a real and palpable positivity swirling around this team and it's day to day activities.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

No they won’t. Just like every other teams don’t.

Every team is different because every management is different. There is a wide gap between MB management and HuGo management for instance. I would expect a far higher success rate for HuGo.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Every team is different because every management is different. There is a wide gap between MB management and HuGo management for instance. I would expect a far higher success rate for HuGo.

No teams have the majority of their prospects make it, ever. It won’t ever happen.