The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Spring in Fialta]

I think the Laine trade still fits rebuild MO, Harris for an early 2nd is great value for him, and even if Laine stinks up the joint for 2 years his contract is up when our 5 year suck period is up too

I just meant that he isn't an extremely young player that we were looking to add to the core (even if he's talented and young enough to be a part of it if it works out). I see him as an established veteran that the team took a flyer on and were willing to concede might be short-term only. Whereas Dach and Newhook were acquired young and given 4-year deals right off the bat.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Hold on a second...

Caufield = MSL
Suzuki = Vinny
Slaf = Stamkos
Demidov = Kucherov
Reinbacher = Hedman

Lafleur's Guy might be cooking

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sure, define it however you want, it's just not comparable to our rebuild

Our rebuild is intentional. Most aren’t. If that’s the point spring In Fialta was making then on that point I agree.

But that doesn’t mean they aren’t rebuilds.

 

[junyab]

I'd argue that every significant Habs move has been reflected a rebuild move since HuGo was hired. Laine two months ago is the only single move that could be argued that it wasn't.

100% That move could be looked at numerous different ways and does nothing to define anything. Which is what I was saying, Rebuilds aren't easily defined.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Hold on a second...

Caufield = MSL
Suzuki = Vinny
Slaf = Stamkos
Demidov = Kucherov
Reinbacher = Hedman

Lafleur's Guy might be cooking

You have to combine two different TB cup winners to even match what we’ve got. And you haven’t even mentioned Hutson yet…

 

[Guy Larose]

How many bottom 5 finishes until fans can voice their displeasure or lose fan status? 5-10? Lol the team has sucked for a better part of a decade. We had a fluke SCF run. That doesn’t make people want to sit around and be “patient” anymore.

Never argued for or against. I wouldn't call beating WPG, Vegas and the Leafs a fluke either.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Never argued for or against. I wouldn't call beating WPG, Vegas and the Leafs a fluke either.

We don’t make the playoffs to do that if there is no Canadian division that season. It was a fluke.

 

[Guy Larose]

We don’t make the playoffs to do that if there is no Canadian division that season. It was a fluke.

You can't rewrite history no matter how you slice it. You still beat out those other teams.

 

[nhlfan9191]

You can't rewrite history no matter how you slice it. You still beat out those other teams.

On the back of Price and Weber, two guys who couldn’t deliver anything in the regular season to make us even contend that season without the Covid brackets. That’s the truth. The team has sucked since 2017.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'd argue that every significant Habs move has been reflected a rebuild move since HuGo was hired. Laine two months ago is the only single move that could be argued that it wasn't.

I would agree with this.

Newhook and Dach would still be considered rebuilding moves.

 

[ReHabs]

Are you actually going to argue that Hab fans aren't impatient and don't love to complain?

I think saying “be patient, it’s a rebuild” in response to people commenting on individual players and their regression is meaningless. It basically means “don’t complain, because I don’t like to see it”.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

We don’t make the playoffs to do that if there is no Canadian division that season. It was a fluke.

The Canadiens getting to the play-in the year before was much more fluke-y than 2021. Every team played under the same rules for the entire year. Calgary, who missed in the Canadian division, were great the year after when divisions were back to normal.

Applying your logic doesn't really make any statistical sense. The Canadiens made the playoffs under the same rules as everyone else. No team flukes three rounds.

 

[ReHabs]

The Canadiens getting to the play-in the year before was much more fluke-y than 2021. Every team played under the same rules for the entire year. Calgary, who missed in the Canadian division, were great the year after when divisions were back to normal.

2020 was a joke

Applying your logic doesn't really make any statistical sense. The Canadiens made the playoffs under the same rules as everyone else. No team flukes three rounds.

The point was that the team was badly built and sputtering in the seasons before the SCF run. We’ve been hopeless crappy since like 2015.

 

[nhlfan9191]

The Canadiens getting to the play-in the year before was much more fluke-y than 2021. Every team played under the same rules for the entire year. Calgary, who missed in the Canadian division, were great the year after when divisions were back to normal.

Applying your logic doesn't really make any statistical sense. The Canadiens made the playoffs under the same rules as everyone else. No team flukes three rounds.

We didn’t all play under the same rules that year. We got the weakest division, or league as you could call it that year because nobody played outside of their division until round 3 of the playoffs.

 

[Guy Larose]

On the back of Price and Weber, two guys who couldn’t deliver anything in the regular season to make us even contend that season without the Covid brackets. That’s the truth. The team has sucked since 2017.

Damn, I forgot that Price and Weber were...wait for it....part of the team.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think saying “be patient, it’s a rebuild” in response to people commenting on individual players and their regression is meaningless. It basically means “don’t complain, because I don’t like to see it”.

I don't think there's a poster on the board who hasn't complained about either of those players this year. And deservedly so. They haven't played well.

That's not the same thing as saying 'we shouldn't show patience towards players who don't deserve it...' In essence that's advocating for writing a player off.

So yeah, by all means complain that they've sucked because they have. But that doesn't mean the team shouldn't be a bit patient with them as they work to improve their game.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We didn’t all play under the same rules that year. We got the weakest division, or league as you could call it that year because nobody played outside of their division until round 3 of the playoffs.

That year was the first year I felt like the team in front of Price was better than he was. Regular season only of course but he just didn't look right. Missed much of the year... then was invincible in the postseason. I'm glad he got one last hurrah and showed what he could do. He was already a HOFer but that may have stamped his ticket towards a first ballot. I think he's worthy of it.

Anyways, interesting to think about failed rebuilds. How many top picks did we have with MB? How many panned out? Picking high doesn't guarantee anything especially if you have terrible development and coaching. You can absolutely f*** things up.

 

[nhlfan9191]

That year was the first year I felt like the team in front of Price was better than he was. Regular season only of course but he just didn't look right. Missed much of the year... then was invincible in the postseason. I'm glad he got one last hurrah and showed what he could do. He was already a HOFer but that may have stamped his ticket towards a first ballot. I think he's worthy of it.

Anyways, interesting to think about failed rebuilds. How many top picks did we have with MB? How many panned out? Picking high doesn't guarantee anything especially if you have terrible development and coaching. You can absolutely f*** things up.

We still don’t make the playoffs with a normal schedule that year. That’s the reality. Anyone who thinks Price and Weber get a 1+ month rest going into those playoffs in any other division is coping or just lying.

 

[FerrisRox]

Top 6 could sure use Michkov right now

Then Caufield would have to go. There's no way both of those undersized wingers could be in the same Top Six on a team with any kinds of designs on winning a championship.

 

[junyab]

I don't think there's a poster on the board who hasn't complained about either of those players this year. And deservedly so. They haven't played well.

That's not the same thing as saying 'we shouldn't show patience towards players who don't deserve it...' In essence that's advocating for writing a player off.

So yeah, by all means complain that they've sucked because they have. But that doesn't mean the team shouldn't be a bit patient with them as they work to improve their game.

 

[Rapala]

Hold on a second...

Caufield = MSL
Suzuki = Vinny
Slaf = Stamkos
Demidov = Kucherov
Reinbacher = Hedman

Lafleur's Guy might be cooking

That is 5 nopes for me.

 

[Rapala]

Never argued for or against. I wouldn't call beating WPG, Vegas and the Leafs a fluke either.

True the fluke was getting the opportunity to play them not the fact that the Big Guns stepped up and trounced them.

 

[FerrisRox]

Key assets to load up on are Dmen and C. Wingers are typically not going to get your a C/D in return in trade unless you are dealing a higher end offensive winger away, like a Hall for Larsson type of move.

How did you arrive at this conclusion, cause it really feels like you just made it up.

If you look at some of the biggest trades ever for defenseman, you might be surprised by what the key piece going the other way was...

Paul Coffey to Pittsburgh ... key piece coming back, winger Craig Simpson.

Ray Bourque to Colorado ... going the other way wingers Brian Rolston and Dave Andreychuk.

Chris Pronger to Hartford ... going the other way, winger Brendan Shanahan. (He was traded two other times with winger Joffrey Lupul the major piece coming back. Shanahan also goes from New Jersey to St. Louis... for Scott Stevens)

Rob Blake to Colorado ... winger Adam Deadmarsh is the key piece of the return.

The idea that wingers can't be traded for top defensemen is silly.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We still don’t make the playoffs with a normal schedule that year. That’s the reality. Anyone who thinks Price and Weber get a 1+ month rest going into those playoffs in any other division is coping or just lying.

I agree.

But it doesn’t matter. What an awesome run. I’ve had Leaf fans try to tell me ‘it didn’t count’ and then I remind them that we beat the crap out if them along the way.

But you’re right, apart from Price the team has sucked since MB blew it up in 2017. We wasted Carey Price’s career.

 

[Rapala]

How did you arrive at this conclusion, cause it really feels like you just made it up.

If you look at some of the biggest trades ever for defenseman, you might be surprised by what the key piece going the other way was...

Paul Coffey to Pittsburgh ... key piece coming back, winger Craig Simpson.

Ray Bourque to Colorado ... going the other way wingers Brian Rolston and Dave Andreychuk.

Chris Pronger to Hartford ... going the other way, winger Brendan Shanahan. (He was traded two other times with winger Joffrey Lupus the major piece coming back. Shanahan also goes from New Jersey to St. Louis... for Scott Stevens)

Rob Blake to Colorado ... winger Adam Deadmarsh is the key piece of the return.

The idea that wingers can't be traded for top defensemen is silly.

Some fans probably did call him Joffrey Lupus.