The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Sorinth]

I think saying “be patient, it’s a rebuild” in response to people commenting on individual players and their regression is meaningless. It basically means “don’t complain, because I don’t like to see it”.

Not to be rude about it, but chances are people are finding your post criticizing the player(s) as meaningless.

 

[ReHabs]

Not to be rude about it, but chances are people are finding your post criticizing the player(s) as meaningless.

What?! It’s a sports discussion board!

What else would we do than discuss players?? Everyone here expects to read posts about players and their performances. That’s why we’re here.

 

[junyab]

How did you arrive at this conclusion, cause it really feels like you just made it up.

If you look at some of the biggest trades ever for defenseman, you might be surprised by what the key piece going the other way was...

Paul Coffey to Pittsburgh ... key piece coming back, winger Craig Simpson.

Ray Bourque to Colorado ... going the other way wingers Brian Rolston and Dave Andreychuk.

Chris Pronger to Hartford ... going the other way, winger Brendan Shanahan. (He was traded two other times with winger Joffrey Lupus the major piece coming back. Shanahan also goes from New Jersey to St. Louis... for Scott Stevens)

Rob Blake to Colorado ... winger Adam Deadmarsh is the key piece of the return.

The idea that wingers can't be traded for top defensemen is silly.

I'd say you have a pretty weak point to make if your examples are from 20+ years ago. It's VERY true that superstar/star wingers are valued less than superstar/star centers/defensemen. This isn't even up for debate.

 

[themilosh]

He's made other mistakes. I think betting on a skill player with a first round pick is generally fine tbh.

Fully agree. I was sanguine about the Reinbacher pick because it seemed the organization was completely convinced of it.

They bet on the bird in hand (CC + Reinbacher) over the one in bush (MM). It makes sense from a team building POV even if it is extremely frustrating to think about Michkov getting better and better. He's already outproducing Cooley and Slafkovsky ffs.

Totally agree.. it was never about Michkov v RB, but rather Michkov v CC.. they chose to keep CC, it is what it is.

 

[themilosh]

View attachment 932154

Apt. No doubt. Lol

 

[Mrb1p]

Hold on a second...

Caufield = MSL
Suzuki = Vinny
Slaf = Stamkos
Demidov = Kucherov
Reinbacher = Hedman

Lafleur's Guy might be cooking

Nick compensating the missing 5 inches from somewhere else

What?! It’s a sports discussion board!

What else would we do than discuss players?? Everyone here expects to read posts about players and their performances. That’s why we’re here.

Be blindly optimistic about everyone until the whole board turns on him.

This is an echo chamber, come on.

 

[ReHabs]

I'd say you have a pretty weak point to make if your examples are from 20+ years ago. It's VERY true that superstar/star wingers are valued less than superstar/star centers/defensemen. This isn't even up for debate.

They were saying this to explain why the Habs picked RD Reinbacher over W Michkov. Now we’re meant to believe it isn’t true… with examples from when the World Wide Web was just getting started lol

Crazy waste of effort. Seems like people just want to be disagreeable for some reason.

 

[junyab]

Michkov vs Reinbacher could've been a vastly different story if say Reinbacher didn't get hurt and Michkov was playing another year in the KHL.

 

[LaP]

Suzuki/CC/Dach/Newhook either managed to be so good that the rebuild was going to be shortened or there to be transition players.

Currently, they look like transition players, since HuGo haven't acquire and/or kept talent to go along with them to speed the rest up:
- a A1 goalie
- a top 4 RHD (or two depending how you look at it)
- a dependable 2 line center

They are in the pipeline thought (if they pan out), so in 5 years, the core could very well be Slaf/Lane/Vanya/Hage/Rein/Beck/Fowler...

In 5 years all the transition players you named will be young enough to still play a productive role in the team and they will still be under contract, For me a transition player is like Monteambeault/Matheson. Suzuki and CC will play the same role as Plekanec and Markov played for Patch/Price/Subban.

Michkov vs Reinbacher could've been a vastly different story if say Reinbacher didn't get hurt and Michkov was playing another year in the KHL.

The story is not written yet. So far we are still within the introduction.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Totally agree.. it was never about Michkov v RB, but rather Michkov v CC.. they chose to keep CC, it is what it is.

I don't think it's that simple.

RB was a rarer talent and they felt they could get offensive forwards in future drafts. CC probably factored in somewhat as well but I don't think it was as simple as that.

Tragic that RB has gotten hurt. Just rotten luck. But I think he'll be a key piece of the rebuild based on his profile. Big strong RD who can settle things down. Exactly what we need back there.

 

[Tyson]

If Reinbacher was not injured I am convinced he would be excelling in Laval. He was excellent last season in 11 games with the Rocket. The kid is going to be solid player for the Habs for years.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

If Reinbacher was not injured I am convinced he would be excelling in Laval. He was excellent last season in 11 games with the Rocket. The kid is going to be solid player for the Habs for years.

I feel like he was destined for injury this season since it happened less than 10 seconds into the game on a routine open ice hit. That knee must have already had some issues, just take the time and make sure it's fully fixed. Hopefully he gets some game action this season seeing as Laval is almost guaranteed to make the playoffs, he would be a great late season addition for them.

 

[Tyson]

I feel like he was destined for injury this season since it happened less than 10 seconds into the game on a routine open ice hit. That knee must have already had some issues, just take the time and make sure it's fully fixed. Hopefully he gets some game action this season seeing as Laval is almost guaranteed to make the playoffs, he would be a great late season addition for them.

I would like a return to play in February if possible and a very long playoff run!

 

[BLONG7]

I would like a return to play in February if possible and a very long playoff run!

Would be great to see that happen...............Laval has some good stuff going on down there, this season.

 

[Tyson]

Would be great to see that happen...............Laval has some good stuff going on down there, this season.

 

[Miller Time]

Future is bright

 

[Sorinth]

What?! It’s a sports discussion board!

What else would we do than discuss players?? Everyone here expects to read posts about players and their performances. That’s why we’re here.

You're allowed to bash players and others are allowed to say your being impatient. They were right when they called you out for being impatient when it came to Slaf, and time will tell with Dach/Newhook.

 

[ReHabs]

You're allowed to bash players and others are allowed to say your being impatient. They were right when they called you out for being impatient when it came to Slaf, and time will tell with Dach/Newhook.

Slaf was in his D+1 and D+2.

I don't think "be patient and shut up" is the right response when commentators, correctly, identify that Newhook (D+6) and Dach (D+6) are underperforming.

We have one 1st line and three 4th lines and we're rather shit and it has partly to do with Dach and Newhook -- two players specifically acquired by Kent Hughes -- not performing well. "Be patient" is an irrelevant response to this line of discussion. Hughes spent valuable assets acquiring them.

Dach's coming back from a big injury, so there's hope he can break through that mental barrier... but he's also had many other big injuries and he's basically the archetypical glass man now only he doesn't have the history of production other unlucky, brittle players like Hall, Gaborik and Havlat had. Be patient he will... return to form? He's never had a good season in the NHL. Newhook, same thing or even worse.

Time will tell? They're underperforming today.

 

[Lshap]

Slaf was in his D+1 and D+2.

I don't think "be patient and shut up" is the right response when commentators, correctly, identify that Newhook (D+6) and Dach (D+6) are underperforming.

We have one 1st line and three 4th lines and we're rather shit and it has partly to do with Dach and Newhook -- two players specifically acquired by Kent Hughes -- not performing well. "Be patient" is an irrelevant response to this line of discussion. Hughes spent valuable assets acquiring them.

Dach's coming back from a big injury, so there's hope he can break through that mental barrier... but he's also had many other big injuries and he's basically the archetypical glass man now only he doesn't have the history of production other unlucky, brittle players like Hall, Gaborik and Havlat had. Be patient he will... return to form? He's never had a good season in the NHL. Newhook, same thing or even worse.

Time will tell? They're underperforming today.

Dach and Newhook aren't looking good this season. Nobody can debate that. However, both have shown much greater potential than what we're seeing now – especially Dach – so the question is how long we invest in their development and recovery, and at what point we cut bait. Dach looked like a top C pre-injury; I'd give him time to work his way back because the payoff could be huge. Newhook..... still not sure if he can become as good as his flashes. At some point his body of work will make his case for him.

The team is in the process of finding its groove. Hopefully the same is true for these two guys.

 

[Mrb1p]

Michkov vs Reinbacher could've been a vastly different story if say Reinbacher didn't get hurt and Michkov was playing another year in the KHL.

Ya what could've been if we lived in La la land, lmao.

I don't think it's that simple.

RB was a rarer talent and they felt they could get offensive forwards in future drafts. CC probably factored in somewhat as well but I don't think it was as simple as that.

Tragic that RB has gotten hurt. Just rotten luck. But I think he'll be a key piece of the rebuild based on his profile. Big strong RD who can settle things down. Exactly what we need back there.

A TOP 4 RD A RARER TALENT THAN A 100 POINTS PLAYER?????

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ya what could've been if we lived in La la land, lmao.

A TOP 4 RD A RARER TALENT THAN A 100 POINTS PLAYER?????

At the draft table, you don't know what a player's going to be. Even now nobody knows what RB will be. Michkov has gotten off to a great start but again, nobody could know that for sure.

I'll ask you this: Is Victor Hedman worth a 100 point player? I think he is.

 

[ReHabs]

Dach and Newhook aren't looking good this season. Nobody can debate that. However, both have shown much greater potential than what we're seeing now – especially Dach – so the question is how long we invest in their development and recovery, and at what point we cut bait. Dach looked like a top C pre-injury; I'd give him time to work his way back because the payoff could be huge. Newhook..... still not sure if he can become as good as his flashes. At some point his body of work will make his case for him.

The team is in the process of finding its groove. Hopefully the same is true for these two guys.

"Shown potential" is one of those oxymoron thingamajigs. If they show something then it wouldn't be potential. Nothing in their body of work indicates they are top6 players for the Habs next year, though Dach certainly has the pedigree and size to have a much longer look (which he's burning through rapidly).

As the Habs try to straighten the ship and tighten up we'll have Laine's return. Hopefully it'll help them two turn the corner. So I'm not saying to cut bait on either but at this point let's call it 'rebalancing the portfolio' and putting them two on the "tradable" pile rather than "not tradable". We'll see as time goes on.

It's a rebuild after all: you don't need to stick with players who can't fulfil their potential, you're meant to churn through them to find ones who stick. Chicago got rid of Dach without a second thought and Colorado, on the other end of the competing spectrum, did the same with Newhook. Why are Habs fans so averse to the same thing?

Neither Dach nor Newhook are worth more today than the day the Habs paid to get them -- a decline in value.

Ya what could've been if we lived in La la land, lmao.


A TOP 4 RD A RARER TALENT THAN A 100 POINTS PLAYER?????

Hey let's be fair, he's a "D-2 who won't run the PP". Rare specimen indeed.

 

[Lshap]

"Shown potential" is one of those oxymoron thingamajigs. If they show something then it wouldn't be potential. Nothing in their body of work indicates they are top6 players for the Habs next year, though Dach certainly has the pedigree and size to have a much longer look (which he's burning through rapidly).

As the Habs try to straighten the ship and tighten up we'll have Laine's return. Hopefully it'll help them two turn the corner. So I'm not saying to cut bait on either but at this point let's call it 'rebalancing the portfolio' and putting them two on the "tradable" pile rather than "not tradable". We'll see as time goes on.

It's a rebuild after all: you don't need to stick with players who can't fulfil their potential, you're meant to churn through them to find ones who stick. Chicago got rid of Dach without a second thought and Colorado, on the other end of the competing spectrum, did the same with Newhook. Why are Habs fans so averse to the same thing?

Neither Dach nor Newhook are worth more today than the day the Habs paid to get them -- a decline in value.

"Potential" isn't just a theory. Dach showed plenty of concrete, high-end potential in the 60 games he played before being injured. He was a possession beast who was putting up solid points. He's been a shadow of that player the past six weeks.

The question isn't whether Dach can reach his potential – we've already seen it – the question is whether he can get back to where he was and sustain it. HuGo acquired him as a key player on our rebuilding roster; he deserves more time to prove whether he's that guy.

Newhook is a more open-ended question. He has a good shift and I think, "Yeah! That's who he can become!", but then he's a mess for two shifts and I'm less optimistic.

 

[Mrb1p]

At the draft table, you don't know what a player's going to be. Even now nobody knows what RB will be. Michkov has gotten off to a great start but again, nobody could know that for sure.

I'll ask you this: Is Victor Hedman worth a 100 point player? I think he is.

He's not f***ing Victor Hedman wth

I was his biggest fast in the first few months of the draft year, I started the HF draft hype for Reinbacher. That's ridiculous. He's never had that type of potential.

Kucherov is also probably more valuable than Hedman anyway.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He's not f***ing Victor Hedman wth

Dude... at the draft they don't know who's going to be what. Did Tampa know Kucherov was going to be what he is? No. Otherwise he'd have gone in the first round.

You're asking me if a stud blueliner is worth a 100 point winger. I'd say yes absolutely.