Prospect Info: The Second Overall Pick Thread: Part II (Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[Edge]

instead of trading chris kreider for a draft pick, lets keep him, surround him with better talent and let him be the top end 2nd line scoring forward that he really is.

at some point this charade of trading everyone for draft picks has to end right ?

Okay, and how much and how long of an investment are you willing to make?

Because that's a big part of the equation as well. Because once you sign him, you're committing to that vision for at least 5 years, probably 7, and you're giving a NMC clause.

This isn't just a conversation about a guy being 28 and the board wanting every draft pick on the planet. There are other considerations.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Okay, and how much and how long of an investment are you willing to make?

Because that's a big part of the equation as well. Because once you sign him, you're committing to that vision for at least 5 years, probably 7, and you're giving a NMC clause.

This isn't just a conversation about a guy being 28 and the board wanting every draft pick on the planet. There are other considerations.

i get that i really do.

hes soon to be 28. hes built like a tank and hes got a unique skill set

if the return is an overpayment no brainer, sure. good. move him. if the return isn't great, then its nothing more than a contract dump to avoid that dreaded 2nd deal.

theres an argument for both sides, hes technically past his peak and we may never see the CK we all thought he would be.

the other side says he would be perfect on a 2nd line with more talent around him and a future captain and team leader for the kids in this rebuild.

like always, it comes down to $ and term.

 

[Edge]

i get that i really do.

hes soon to be 28. hes built like a tank and hes got a unique skill set

if the return is an overpayment no brainer, sure. good. move him. if the return isn't great, then its nothing more than a contract dump to avoid that dreaded 2nd deal.

theres an argument for both sides, hes technically past his peak and we may never see the CK we all thought he would be.

the other side says he would be perfect on a 2nd line with more talent around him and a future captain and team leader for the kids in this rebuild.

like always, it comes down to $ and term.

It's funny, over the course of the season, my desire to re-sign him waned.

At first, I was pretty much about it. But then, with time, I began to feel like "this" is the peak for him on the Rangers and I got the sinking feeling that it was all downhill from him. Maybe not a steep downhill trajectory, perhaps even subtle at at first. But I watched this season and I thought to myself, "Do you really see this working when Kreider is 31 or 32? To say nothing about the fact that the Rangers would only be at the mid-point of that contract."

And the more I thought about that, the more open I became to make a move. There's something about Kreider right now that reminds me of an old saying attributed to Branch Rickey about it being better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late.

I see the value Kreider brings. I really like Kreider. But I have a funny feeling that a long-term commitment, without the ability to move him, will not end well.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Kreider is easily one my favorite Rangers, and he’s a very good player, but I have no interest in assuming the risk of a long term contract with him. That’s what it boils down to. If he showed more consistency in his production, I’d consider it more. As it stands, as good a possession player as he is, I just don’t feel comfortable paying a guy ~7M per when his career averages are ~25 goals and ~25 assists. What happens when (not if) he declines?

 

[Off Sides]

i get that i really do.

hes soon to be 28. hes built like a tank and hes got a unique skill set

if the return is an overpayment no brainer, sure. good. move him. if the return isn't great, then its nothing more than a contract dump to avoid that dreaded 2nd deal.

theres an argument for both sides, hes technically past his peak and we may never see the CK we all thought he would be.

the other side says he would be perfect on a 2nd line with more talent around him and a future captain and team leader for the kids in this rebuild.

like always, it comes down to $ and term.

Would you trade Kreider for the pick that nets the Rangers Newhook? Are there other draftees you'd make that deal for?

What if you had to add to Kreider, or retain on him, or take back a short term cap dump?

That is kind of where my mind goes to when it comes to Kreider. If the right prospect is there, not saying Newhook is or is not, just a hypothetical scenario where I think some of these draftees are maybe worth the risk, especially given the Rangers own #2 pick and where the Rangers are in their rebuild.

 

[apoptygma]

Kreider should have more suitors in at the draft or in the off-season. If the aquiring team shit the bed next season they can still get something back with trading him at the deadline. The price might not be mucher higher now, but will
be easier to find a suitor.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

i get that i really do.

hes soon to be 28. hes built like a tank and hes got a unique skill set

if the return is an overpayment no brainer, sure. good. move him. if the return isn't great, then its nothing more than a contract dump to avoid that dreaded 2nd deal.

theres an argument for both sides, hes technically past his peak and we may never see the CK we all thought he would be.

the other side says he would be perfect on a 2nd line with more talent around him and a future captain and team leader for the kids in this rebuild.

like always, it comes down to $ and term.

Whats his unique skill set, that he can disappear on a moments notice for 10 game clips multiple times a season? Get rid of him before the young kids take after that. Hell no to signing him long term.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Whats his unique skill set, that he can disappear on a moments notice for 10 game clips multiple times a season? Get rid of him before the young kids take after that. Hell no to signing him long term.

sadly you are correct.

he is a very fast dangerous player with good size so that makes him unique. he just doesn't produce.

hes been asked to do much of the heavy lifting here and hes failed. he got worse after 13 and 36 were moved. he didn't step up. hes never been the most cerebral player and still wonder if he just lacks hockey sense.

that said, if hes on a 2nd line playing with more talent, i think hes a guy who, even with age, can still be a productive player the next 5 yrs. the next 3 i still think hes got 30 goal upside with more talent on his line.

the term and $ will make the decision.

hes an interesting player. to me, hes not worth a 7 yr investment but i would go more $$ shorter term no problem.

 

[romba]

Whats his unique skill set, that he can disappear on a moments notice for 10 game clips multiple times a season? Get rid of him before the young kids take after that. Hell no to signing him long term.

Great for possession, his speed backs off defenders, and he's a bull along the boards on the cycle when healthy. Has limited hands, vision and passing and he also tends to be a bit banged up due to physical style. Worked on his release so his shot is pretty decent. Definitely expendable at the current time rebuilding. But let's not rewrite history and say he's pretty much just a passable 3rd liner/ok second liner.

 

[broadwayblue]

sadly you are correct.

he is a very fast dangerous player with good size so that makes him unique. he just doesn't produce.

hes been asked to do much of the heavy lifting here and hes failed. he got worse after 13 and 36 were moved. he didn't step up. hes never been the most cerebral player and still wonder if he just lacks hockey sense.

that said, if hes on a 2nd line playing with more talent, i think hes a guy who, even with age, can still be a productive player the next 5 yrs. the next 3 i still think hes got 30 goal upside with more talent on his line.

the term and $ will make the decision.

hes an interesting player. to me, hes not worth a 7 yr investment but i would go more $$ shorter term no problem.

Agreed. We all want and hope for more from CK, but it just doesn't materialize. At some point in a player's career he is what he is. In CK's case, he's a strong, fast skating player who always leaves us wanting just a bit more. If he could be had for 4 year term I'd be all for it. But I think he's just too inconsistent to lock up for 6 or 7 years.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Agreed. We all want and hope for more from CK, but it just doesn't materialize. At some point in a player's career he is what he is. In CK's case, he's a strong, fast skating player who always leaves us wanting just a bit more. If he could be had for 4 year term I'd be all for it. But I think he's just too inconsistent to lock up for 6 or 7 years.

exactly.

its the term.

even 5 yrs at a decent number i can live with. 4 would be better with more $$.

i cant help but believe with more talented line mates on a 2nd line, 20 would be near 30 gps.

 

[Profet]

he is a very fast dangerous player with good size so that makes him unique. he just doesn't produce.

hes been asked to do much of the heavy lifting here and hes failed. he got worse after 13 and 36 were moved. he didn't step up. hes never been the most cerebral player and still wonder if he just lacks hockey sense.

Kreider is probably one of the most cerebral players the Rangers have. He's an intelligent player that understands the game and has exceptional hockey sense.

I think you're mischaracterizing him.

If anything, he overthinks the game. The reason he is an NHL'er is his work ethic, his physical attributes, and his ability to think the game. What the man lacks is finesse and skill. If he had any ability with the puck or the ability to skate east-west... He would have the ability to be an elite player. Missing those 2 things, he's simply a very good player.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Devils PR machine is on the Hughes hype train:

Even if he's their guy, I think it's a little weird to have the team Twitter account posting about him like he's already on their team.

Shero is probably not too happy about that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Even if he's their guy, I think it's a little weird to have the team Twitter account posting about him like he's already on their team.

Shero is probably not too happy about that.

Shero is a moron.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Even if he's their guy, I think it's a little weird to have the team Twitter account posting about him like he's already on their team.

Shero is probably not too happy about that.

This makes me more confident we'll get Kakko... Is there a reason to wait to announce? I know NFL teams have announced picks before the draft. (See Houston Texans 2006 draft)

 

[offdacrossbar]

Kreider is probably one of the most cerebral players the Rangers have. He's an intelligent player that understands the game and has exceptional hockey sense.

I think you're mischaracterizing him.

If anything, he overthinks the game. The reason he is an NHL'er is his work ethic, his physical attributes, and his ability to think the game. What the man lacks is finesse and skill. If he had any ability with the puck or the ability to skate east-west... He would have the ability to be an elite player. Missing those 2 things, he's simply a very good player.

yeesh. not sure at all.

he may speak many languages and be well spoken and a deep thinker.

thats does not a hockey player make.

his rep in his draft year was crazy physical specimen but lacking hockey sense and just needs to play more games.

today. many games played, still lacking intuitive hockey iq.

hes a smart guy no doubt, but on the ice, he still seems rather mechanical and lacking true hockey iq.

a guy with that type of size and speed needs to be more productive.

 

[007]

This makes me more confident we'll get Kakko... Is there a reason to wait to announce? I know NFL teams have announced picks before the draft. (See Houston Texans 2006 draft)

I can see no reason TO announce, especially seeing as it's the Devils who ultimately are going to decide who comes to New York. Also, we have the WHC and U-18 WHC to go through before anyone makes a final analysis.

 

[Polar Bear]

I can see no reason TO announce, especially seeing as it's the Devils who ultimately are going to decide who comes to New York. Also, we have the WHC and U-18 WHC to go through before anyone makes a final analysis.

Ehhh, I don't think the WHC or the U-18 are going to have an impact on who goes 1 and 2. Hughes to NJ and Kakko to us was decided the second the lottery was concluded.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

This makes me more confident we'll get Kakko... Is there a reason to wait to announce? I know NFL teams have announced picks before the draft. (See Houston Texans 2006 draft)

Even if it's leaked they're taking him or something, it makes no sense for the GM to say who he's taking until he actually takes him. Even if it's the odd on favorite who is assumed to be going first overall, still you'd think the GM would want to keep even a slight level of secrecy to still use the pick or potential player as leverage in talks with other GMs.

Not that anyone thinks the pick is moving or anything I guess I just don't see any benefit at all to say who they're taking 2 months in advance.

 

[duhmetreE]

Even if he's their guy, I think it's a little weird to have the team Twitter account posting about him like he's already on their team.

Shero is probably not too happy about that.

They hold the #1 pick. It doesn't matter what they project.

I wouldn't doubt they come out and 'make the selection' before the actual draft... After these tournaments

 

[offdacrossbar]

hughes is the best player in the draft imo.

kakko is the 2nd best player in the draft.

hughes adds so much just as he is today, as he gets bigger and stronger and becomes a pro, hes going to be even more valuable.

all that said, the same applies to kakko.

i would take either and be very happy. theres always a chance the devs take kakko 1OA. it that happens, we draft jack hughes and profit.

i could live with mika/jack as our 1/2

 

[broadwayblue]

You don't announce who you are taking until you are on the podium. There is no reason to show your hand in advance.

 

[Levitate]

You don't announce who you are taking until you are on the podium. There is no reason to show your hand in advance.

I don't think it really matters when you have 1 OA and the number 1 is pretty clear cut

 

[offdacrossbar]

I don't think it really matters when you have 1 OA and the number 1 is pretty clear cut

this.

showing your hand ?

you've got the 1OA. theres no one who can take anyone from you, you have the 1st pick.

whom ever you want on draft day is yours. theres no hand to show. you hold all the cards.

 

[RangerLifer]

You don't announce who you are taking until you are on the podium. There is no reason to show your hand in advance.

Watch the Rangers do another one of their off-the-board picks @ number 2 and this board will explode.