The San Jose Sharks are horror-bad

[weastern bias]

When you trade off every single useful vet you can this is what you usually get

The Sharks were this bad BEFORE they started trading off big money veterans, it would have been stupid to keep them and draft 6th overall with large cap commitments rather than pick Celebrini with a clean slate on their ledger

 

[Frank Drebin]

The Sharks were this bad BEFORE they started trading off big money veterans, it would have been stupid to keep them and draft 6th overall with large cap commitments rather than pick Celebrini with a clean slate on their ledger

Yeah well let’s see how it works out

 

[weastern bias]

Yeah well let’s see how it works out

It's working out great, actually

Before the tank but after the decline the Sharks had the following natural draft positions:

2020 - 3rd (traded a year ahead of time to OTT)
2021 - 7th
2022 - 11th

Mike Grier takes over and the tank begins resulting in the following natural draft positions:

2023 - 4th
2024 - 1st

This wasn't anything close to a playoff team before they sold off assets, the Sharks finished last in the west and 3rd last in the league 3 years before they began purging vets but they didn't own their own draft pick at the time and had huge salary commitments as far out at 8 years in the future, they also had too many decent-but-not-elite players who kept them from reliably drafting in the top-5 once they did control their own pick, it was the worst possible position to be in

The organization is actually in a much healthier position right now than they were before the tanking began even if the on ice results are terrible, they were ALREADY terrible but without any good prospects and without cap flexibility, now they have both in abundance

 

[StreetHawk]

The organization is actually in a much healthier position right now than they were before the tanking began even if the on ice results are terrible, they were ALREADY terrible but without any good prospects and without cap flexibility, now they have both in abundance

Main thing and the most important thing for SJ is to create an environment where their kids can develop into the players they want them to be. Need to ensure they learn both ends of the game. Limit the bad habits. One thing to be terrible when the top picks are not in the lineup, but once they arrive, have to ensure that the environment is good for them. Yes, there will be a lot of losing. Still need to instill playing the game the right way.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

Grier inherited a mess. I think he has done a fine job so far. Sharks were going to be pretty bad even with good luck, but have already encountered bad luck early in the season.

Yeah, they are a few seasons away from seriously thinking about the playoffs, but they are playing the smart game by avoiding dumb contracts that accomplish little to nothing in the big scheme of things. Proper rebuilds take time.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I have no idea why anyone thought these guys would be better this year. Prospects put up points but they rarely win hockey games.

And what a terrible environment to grow these young players in. Surround them with players who never won anything, give the prospects top minutes and hope for the best? Awful, this is how you ruin prospects. It's going to be a looooong rebuild for San Jose.

 

[Cas]

I was told they are doing player development at the NHL level. Maybe there is some truth to that, but it's appears to be more like tanking to me. GMMG should have put Couture on LTIR maybe Vlasic as well, and use that extra cap room to get some solid NHLers which they sorely need.

He didn't. Probably to continue rebuilding through draft picks, taking the long road.

How are we going to add $22.5 million in players?

 

[Barrie22]

I was told they are doing player development at the NHL level. Maybe there is some truth to that, but it's appears to be more like tanking to me. GMMG should have put Couture on LTIR maybe Vlasic as well, and use that extra cap room to get some solid NHLers which they sorely need.

He didn't. Probably to continue rebuilding through draft picks, taking the long road.

Extra cap room? Adding couture and vlasic to LTIR doesn't help the sharks with adding players. Sharks have 9.7 million in cap space with those 2 players still counting on the cap.

And that doesn't even answer the question of who was available that we could add that takes that cap space up before we could even start using the LTIR by couture and vlasic.

 

[Jacob]

This is like, the beginning of year 3 of a total tear-down-and-rebuild.

Probably gonna be another couple years yet.

 

[coooldude]

I have no idea why anyone thought these guys would be better this year. Prospects put up points but they rarely win hockey games.

And what a terrible environment to grow these young players in. Surround them with players who never won anything, give the prospects top minutes and hope for the best? Awful, this is how you ruin prospects. It's going to be a looooong rebuild for San Jose.

In addition to what others have said -- "Surround them with players who never won anything" is patently false. Goodrow and Toffoli have both won cups and are having solid starts to the year -- Goodrow has significantly helped Smith on his wing. Toffoli and Celebrini combined very well in game 1 before Celebrini went to IR.

Ceci and Walman haven't won anything but they've clearly been our top 2 defensemen and are both playing just fine to actually good (Walman). And they're playing hard. AND both came with picks.

Anyone who just looks at the record and comes to dunk on the Sharks is wasting everyone's time. The org is doing their damnedest to create the right kind of environment for the kids. Given how awful we were last year / awful before last year (as @weastern bias detailed excellently) this is going to be painful and everyone knew it was going to be painful, but to say the Sharks are as bad as last year is wrong, even if the record isn't much better thru 8 games.

 

[Cup or Bust]

I think they will show improvement this season but they still need a few more seasons of rebuilding the team to become competitive.

 

[dirtydanglez]

they are bad now and they are going to be bad for a while. thats how these things go.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

They've been out-tanking us and it sucks.

 

[StreetHawk]

This is like, the beginning of year 3 of a total tear-down-and-rebuild.

Probably gonna be another couple years yet.

It's going to take time. Look at their D. Ceci/Ruuta are ufa this summer. The other vets Walman, Ferarro, Benning are ufa in 2026. Turn that group over to kids in their early 20's, going to look like Ana and Mon with over half the 7 Dman with under 120 NHL games experience.

That's why rebuilding HC don't last. Message will only last so long if there are not results for the players to see.

 

[Sharksfan66]

I have no idea why anyone thought these guys would be better this year. Prospects put up points but they rarely win hockey games.

And what a terrible environment to grow these young players in. Surround them with players who never won anything, give the prospects top minutes and hope for the best? Awful, this is how you ruin prospects. It's going to be a looooong rebuild for San Jose.

Sharks added Toffoli (1 Cup) & Goodrow (2 Cups) in the offseason + Ceci who was just 1 goal away from his own Cup this past spring. What an odd critique.

Yes the Sharks stink right now. But it's not for lack of trying to build a winning culture around the kids. This is not a Buffalo/Ottawa style rebuild.

In addition to what others have said -- "Surround them with players who never won anything" is patently false. Goodrow and Toffoli have both won cups and are having solid starts to the year -- Goodrow has significantly helped Smith on his wing. Toffoli and Celebrini combined very well in game 1 before Celebrini went to IR.

Ceci and Walman haven't won anything but they've clearly been our top 2 defensemen and are both playing just fine to actually good (Walman). And they're playing hard. AND both came with picks.

Anyone who just looks at the record and comes to dunk on the Sharks is wasting everyone's time. The org is doing their damnedest to create the right kind of environment for the kids. Given how awful we were last year / awful before last year (as @weastern bias detailed excellently) this is going to be painful and everyone knew it was going to be painful, but to say the Sharks are as bad as last year is wrong, even if the record isn't much better thru 8 games.

Should have kept reading before I responded. Well said.

 

[DtP5000]

Rutta has a couple cups too, although I’m not sure how involved he was in the first.

 

[Mattb124]

I have no idea why anyone thought these guys would be better this year. Prospects put up points but they rarely win hockey games.

And what a terrible environment to grow these young players in. Surround them with players who never won anything, give the prospects top minutes and hope for the best? Awful, this is how you ruin prospects. It's going to be a looooong rebuild for San Jose.

You need to pay attention if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[Bizz]

Another thing that nobody has mentioned with regards to this year is we now have a first year coach that has no prior experience coaching at the NHL level, and to say he's going through some growing pains is an understatement. Right now he looks like he's in over his head and that may very well be true with how he's gotten tactically spanked by veteran coaches up to this point. It's gonna take some time and some very hard losses before we find out if he has what it takes or not.

 

[Saitama]

This is like, the beginning of year 3 of a total tear-down-and-rebuild.

Probably gonna be another couple years yet.

Hopefully like, 50 or so more years. That'd be nice!

 

[Shark Finn]

The Mike Grier Experience.

More like postponing a rebuild by 3 years and the effects of that, which can be blamed on Doug Wilson and his stubbornness, delusion - whatever you want to call it. Grier has been fine so far, but the real test regarding the rebuild is yet to come.

 

[JPT]

Aren't teams that are fully rebuilding supposed to suck?

 

[Barrie22]

Aren't teams that are fully rebuilding supposed to suck?

Yes, it's really amazing how many people are shocked here and complaining on our own board.

2022-23 year 1, 1st year of tear down (burns traded, meier traded)
2023-24 year 2, 2nd year of tear down (karlsson traded, hertl traded)
2024-25 year 3, 1st year of rebuild (smith, celebrini 1st seasons).

 

[coooldude]

What's the evidence you have that Warsofsky has gotten tactically spanked? I'd be interested to hear the ideas.

Here are the mistakes he's made in my eyes that you could attribute to a new coach over-coaching:
- in our first three games where we were actually competitive, he benched the rookies and put the lines in a blender in the last 5-10 minutes to try to hold onto a win, and it didn't work
- bad decisions on who takes overtime faceoffs

Here are decisions some fans are mad about but others, like myself, don't see other good options:
- Rutta and Ferraro pairing has been awful. But do you split them up and anchor someone else with each of them?
- Smith isn't on PP1, Wennberg is. You could try it, I'm not sure how much it would help, and it probably won't get us 2 wins in the first 8 games.
- the new DZ system is pretty clearly making us more competitive at 5v5, but due to our D's poor abilities at breaking out, we still get hemmed into our zone a lot... But less than last year. What's the alternative?
- we've taken too many penalties. What's he supposed to do here?
- we've had really slow starts. Without more knowledge, it's really hard to say why. He already called the team out on starting slowly, not sure anyone has enough insight yet to suggest it's his fault or what needs to change.

Here are decisions he originally got criticism for not making, then ended up doing what many fans wanted and yet isn't getting any credit for, and/or nobody is acknowledging that what the fans wanted isn't really working:
- Smith is still at Center and not on the wing or fourth line, and Warso has mixed the lines in a way that has looked more effective for him (eg nuking the Kostin Smith Zetterlund line and putting Goodrow with Smith, which has actually worked)
- Gush has been in the lineup and with skill players since his first two games on the fourth line, but he's not tearing up he league or threatening to win the Calder
- Kostin is getting benched just like lots wanted to see
- Benning got scratched and Thompson is playing and looks pretty good, even getting PP1 time

It's always easy to blame the coach, Sharks fans have been doing it for decades. I don't know that he's a great or even good coach, but I don't see any reason in 8 games to think he's a major part of our problem this year, when it's pretty clear we just have a really weak D corps again and not enough high end talent on either F or D.

 

[StreetHawk]

Sharks Dcore is going to turn over by the end of 25/26. 2 ufas in 2025 and 3 more in 2026. But can’t turn all 5 positions into rookies the following season. 2 youngsters on the roster this season. Will end up younger than Montreal or Anaheim if the replacements are all kids.

Going to be a while before the sharks get good. Completely possible that they don’t make the playoffs in the 2020’s. Turning over a D core with more kids over the next couple of seasons.

Whether this HC will be able to keep the message going over the next 2-3 years is going to be a challenge. Message will get lost if there aren’t some results from how he wants them to play.

 

[Saskatoon]

I have no idea why anyone thought these guys would be better this year. Prospects put up points but they rarely win hockey games.

And what a terrible environment to grow these young players in. Surround them with players who never won anything, give the prospects top minutes and hope for the best? Awful, this is how you ruin prospects. It's going to be a looooong rebuild for San Jose.

I feel like guys like Celebrini and Smith are going to turn out fine and be able to grow even in a tough environment

Their AHL team is actually really good this year for the next tier of prospect