The San Jose Sharks are horror-bad

[weastern bias]

There are some on our boards who would be ok with finishing dead last for the next three years at least, so no it's not.

Literally no one thinks this

 

[coooldude]

Literally no one thinks this

to be fair there is one troll-ish poster who says things like "we should be as bad as possible for the next 3 years," but most people who are reasonable are saying that we'll be bottom 3 next year (potentially worst overall again, intentionally or not), then maybe bottom 5, then maybe bottom 10, then hopefully competing for the playoffs after that, or maybe another year of struggling a bit but still trying to build a competitive team.

This is, of course, far different than "tanking for 4 more years."

 

[Oilslick941611]

I knew the Oilers were going to win big against the sharks when during the anthems the camera went down the sharks bench and i had no idea who any of the players were. I recognized no one.

 

[weastern bias]

to be fair there is one troll-ish poster who says things like "we should be as bad as possible for the next 3 years," but most people who are reasonable are saying that we'll be bottom 3 next year (potentially worst overall again, intentionally or not), then maybe bottom 5, then maybe bottom 10, then hopefully competing for the playoffs after that, or maybe another year of struggling a bit but still trying to build a competitive team.

This is, of course, far different than "tanking for 4 more years."

Basically this

The tank began with the Meier trade, and the accumulation of assets began with the 2023 entry draft

Any fan knows a scorched earth rebuild is a slow process that takes multiple years, and we're at the bottom of ours right now, all of us who have been pro-tank have been in favor of maximizing cap space and draft position for as long as it takes to build a legitimate pool of prospects, and those prospects will have to come from the 2023, 2024, and likely 2025 entry drafts where we will have at least a combined 6 1st round picks including 4th overall last year, a top 3 this year, and another high pick next year

No one is saying "be bad on purpose in perpetuity"; we are saying over this period of multiple seasons, that we are hopefully in the middle of, try to pick as high as possible as many times as possible to maximize the chances of acquiring truly franchise altering talent

It's pretty simple and most of the best teams in the league acquired their best players by doing exactly that

 

[PattyLafontaine]

I've been saying the exact thing. Seems some of our fans don't understand the human element of this process. There's a reason a majority of major rebuilds backfire.

No, you don't seem to understand why Ottawa, Buffalo, and Arizona et al. keeping failing. They have terrible owners and terrible front offices.

Rebuilds take time and the Sharks have some nice pieces but they do not have any cornerstones for the franchise at the moment.

It took Colorado 9 years to win a cup.

 

[TheBeard]

No, you don't seem to understand why Ottawa, Buffalo, and Arizona et al. keeping failing. They have terrible owners and terrible front offices.

Rebuilds take time and the Sharks have some nice pieces but they do not have any cornerstones for the franchise at the moment.

It took Colorado 9 years to win a cup.

Using any franchise, both for my argument or yours, to define a concrete template for winning is just dumb. You can look at basically every winner over the last 10 years and create a different narrative as to why they won.

At this point I don't see what makes Hasso any better or worse of an owner than any other.

to be fair there is one troll-ish poster who says things like "we should be as bad as possible for the next 3 years," but most people who are reasonable are saying that we'll be bottom 3 next year (potentially worst overall again, intentionally or not), then maybe bottom 5, then maybe bottom 10, then hopefully competing for the playoffs after that, or maybe another year of struggling a bit but still trying to build a competitive team.

This is, of course, far different than "tanking for 4 more years."

to be fair, there is more than one "troll-ish" poster who's been advocating being bad for the next couple AT LEAST years. I really don't want to go back and collect receipts, but I will if asked.

 

[coooldude]

Using any franchise, both for my argument or yours, to define a concrete template for winning is just dumb. You can look at basically every winner over the last 10 years and create a different narrative as to why they won.

At this point I don't see what makes Hasso any better or worse of an owner than any other.


to be fair, there is more than one "troll-ish" poster who's been advocating being bad for the next couple AT LEAST years. I really don't want to go back and collect receipts, but I will if asked.

If we're all going to be intellectually honest, then you have to also admit that you have discounted many different franchises for one reason or another who have succeeded at rebuilding in a way that looks very much like what the Sharks are currently doing. And that such a rebuild might not include being much better next year.

If you want to go back and collect receipts for who wants to tank for 4 more years, be my guest, I think that number is 1. If it's 3 years of dead last tanking, I would be surprised if you found two. You are now saying you'll go collect receipts for people who think we should "be bad for a couple more years AT LEAST", which is very different than saying we should TANK for FOUR more years.

If you want to go collect receipts for posters who think that next year we will still likely be bottom 3, then bottom 5 the following, them bottom 10, then in 2027 or 2028 when our big stars are 23-25 we have a very early chance to try to make the playoffs, then there will definitely be a lot of people who have said that. Because that's the most likely scenario and it's how rebuilds have generally been successful. Yes, some of those have also failed. As I've said many times, it's about 50/50 whether a full rebuild succeeds or fails.

 

[TheBeard]

If we're all going to be intellectually honest, then you have to also admit that you have discounted many different franchises for one reason or another who have succeeded at rebuilding in a way that looks very much like what the Sharks are currently doing. And that such a rebuild might not include being much better next year.

If you want to go back and collect receipts for who wants to tank for 4 more years, be my guest, I think that number is 1. If it's 3 years of dead last tanking, I would be surprised if you found two. You are now saying you'll go collect receipts for people who think we should "be bad for a couple more years AT LEAST", which is very different than saying we should TANK for FOUR more years.

If you want to go collect receipts for posters who think that next year we will still likely be bottom 3, then bottom 5 the following, them bottom 10, then in 2027 or 2028 when our big stars are 23-25 we have a very early chance to try to make the playoffs, then there will definitely be a lot of people who have said that. Because that's the most likely scenario and it's how rebuilds have generally been successful. Yes, some of those have also failed. As I've said many times, it's about 50/50 whether a full rebuild succeeds or fails.

Honestly, outside of Colorado and maaaaybe TB (I say maybe because their success only consisted of two top 5 picks in Hedman and Stammer while the rest were later) most rebuilds failed over the last ten years.

I'm all in for the rebuild, but let's not act like it's success rate is any higher than us getting the 1OA this season.

 

[who_me?]

Who worse the sharks or bluejackets?

The Sharks will become the Bluejackets in 10 years.

 

[viper0220]

The Sharks will become the Bluejackets in 10 years.

The Sharks ownership group is to strong to let that happen, professional sports teams go through cycles, you are very good 8-10 years and than you have to go through a rebuild. if you have good competent ownership and management that rebuild period can be short. See whats happening with Chicago Blackhawks and what will happen with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

 

[weastern bias]

The 2024 San Jose Sharks have officially finished with the lowest 82 game point total since the institution of the salary cap at 47 points with a final record of 19-54-9

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The 2024 San Jose Sharks have officially finished with the lowest 82 game point total since the institution of the salary cap at 47 points with a final record of 19-54-9

For that roster? Feels like an overachievement

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

The 2024 San Jose Sharks have officially finished with the lowest 82 game point total since the institution of the salary cap at 47 points with a final record of 19-54-9

Wow they suck!

-guy who’s team went 0-3 against them this year

 

[Iggys Dome]

The 2024 San Jose Sharks have officially finished with the lowest 82 game point total since the institution of the salary cap at 47 points with a final record of 19-54-9

Elite tank job

 

[Bowie22]

The 2024 San Jose Sharks have officially finished with the lowest 82 game point total since the institution of the salary cap at 47 points with a final record of 19-54-9

 

[PeteWorrell]

The 2024 San Jose Sharks have officially finished with the lowest 82 game point total since the institution of the salary cap at 47 points with a final record of 19-54-9

That's crazy. That is the type of record that expansion teams used to get.

 

[the paisanos guy]

lord bless them, I hope they get Celebrini

 

[12ozPapa]

The Sharks ownership group is to strong to let that happen, professional sports teams go through cycles, you are very good 8-10 years and than you have to go through a rebuild. if you have good competent ownership and management that rebuild period can be short. See whats happening with Chicago Blackhawks and what will happen with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Pump the brakes. Chicago got a top pick, but by no means are they the blueprint to follow. And let’s not assume Dubas can lead a proper rebuild

 

[Shark Finn]

That's crazy. That is the type of record that expansion teams used to get.

Well.. They are an expansion team.

 

[coooldude]

Honestly, outside of Colorado and maaaaybe TB (I say maybe because their success only consisted of two top 5 picks in Hedman and Stammer while the rest were later) most rebuilds failed over the last ten years.

I'm all in for the rebuild, but let's not act like it's success rate is any higher than us getting the 1OA this season.

Most rebuilds take 10 years. Stamkos won his first cup in his 30s. You can't evaluate most rebuilds from the last 10 years yet.

Look, I get it. This is basically a head vs heart debate and both of them matter. You feel like you're the only one thinking about the fan experience, the player experience, culture, morale, and you feel that too many fans on here are far too callous to understand the damage that a rational tank job can do. And frankly on these boards you are one of the only voices worried about those issues. You are fighting an uphill battle because many people don't care at all about the current players and don't really care about the fan experience.

I happen to disagree with you that our culture is at imminent risk of becoming a losing one, I happen to disagree that the franchise is at risk, and I happen to believe that we are on a good starting track for a rebuild. I don't think what you want and what most fans you disagree with want is very far apart, but how it feels and how we talk about it is different and that can be a challenge.

I do think that factually it's impossible to argue that rebuilds don't work sometimes, and it's hard to argue they don't work about half the time. It's very hard to argue you don't need elite talent to win a cup or even be a contender. There are precious few ways to get that talent. Most of the argument is about what is or isn't possible on what timeline. And it's all a tale of sound and fury signifying nothing because we are all passengers on this f'd up roller coaster.

It's a relief the season is over and I'm excited to see what happens at the draft. Two big pieces incoming.

 

[Gnashville]

Pump the brakes. Chicago got a top pick, but by no means are they the blueprint to follow. And let’s not assume Dubas can lead a proper rebuild

You just know Bettman is itching to screw the Sharks over in the lottery
Blackhawks get 1st overall and Sharks lose their pick from Pittsburgh when the “magically” move up to 4.

 

[TheBeard]

Sharks lose their pick from Pittsburgh when the “magically” move up to 4.

Honestly, I would like that since we'd have their first next year unprotected.

 

[Zarzh]

No, you don't seem to understand why Ottawa, Buffalo, and Arizona et al. keeping failing. They have terrible owners and terrible front offices.

Rebuilds take time and the Sharks have some nice pieces but they do not have any cornerstones for the franchise at the moment.

It took Colorado 9 years to win a cup.

It's because they have no center-defense.

Teams try to emulate Colorado and to a lesser extent Tampa Bay, while not understanding they're poorly constructed teams with enough talent to get away with their flaws sometimes.

 

[weastern bias]

Oops, sorry, tanked

 

[Alex Jones]

Honestly, outside of Colorado and maaaaybe TB (I say maybe because their success only consisted of two top 5 picks in Hedman and Stammer while the rest were later) most rebuilds failed over the last ten years.

I'm all in for the rebuild, but let's not act like it's success rate is any higher than us getting the 1OA this season.

What does it mean for a rebuild to fail? If the bar is winning a title than almost all rebuilds fail. To me if you build a team with a legit title window that is a successful rebuild.