The San Jose Sharks are horror-bad

Oilers play SJ Thursday. The stoppable force vs the moveable object.

If they're ever going to beat anybody, it'll be the Oilers with how they've played so far

As awful as the Sharks are everywhere, the defense is multiple levels worse than the offense. I'd be surprised if teams with high end offensive talent don't feast on us. Our hope for wins is going to come against teams that struggle to score and can maybe make our D look just bad rather than hilariously abysmal.
 
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Okay...what is the COW palace? Sounds like there is a good history story there.

It was built as permanent livestock exhibition.During construction in late 30's there was a critical article in local newspaper why when people are starving they are building a "palace for cows".Another explanation is that it stands for California Oregon Washington.I was not around but I prefer the first one.
It hosted different events from professional wrestling,boxing matches (including world title matches), circus,rodeos.San Francisco Warriors played there before they moved to Oakland and expansion San Jose Sharks while their stadium in San Jose was being built.
 
If anything this team likely waited a few years too many before deciding it was time to rebuild. There was no situation where the Sharks had any chance to be good this season or next. I am not sure anyone expected them to be this bad but there is no trade that would move the needle much. They need to build a brand new core.
 
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Because, as has been noted, it's not about "rewarding" an underperforming organization, it's about redistributing talent to the lower rungs of the league to ensure the health of all 32 franchises

The worst teams picking first is in the NHL's best business interest
If every team missing the playoffs has the same chance of winning, it would at least force the worst ones to invest in their scouting. Boston is constantly finding great players without any high draft picks, and there are more examples.

It is ridiculous that it's more beneficial to be utterly worthless for a few seasons than actually trying to make the playoffs every year.
 
this chaos wheel people are talking about is intriguing but needs more options

I demand spaces on the wheel for things like moving the team or amputating the leg of a teams leading scorer

draft positioning is cool and all but I just don't think I can feel alive if there's not at least a chance that when my team lines up for their spin at the wheel that they could end up literally moving to the moon or be forced to replace all of their helmets with upside down fishbowls filled with bees
 
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If every team missing the playoffs has the same chance of winning, it would at least force the worst ones to invest in their scouting. Boston is constantly finding great players without any high draft picks, and there are more examples.

It is ridiculous that it's more beneficial to be utterly worthless for a few seasons than actually trying to make the playoffs every year.
The problem is that the best talents in the draft are almost always known to everyone, so there's no actual benefit to better scouting there because everyone is going to pick Crosby or McDavid or Bedard and its just a matter of who gets lucky, no skill involved.

Even aside from those guys, there is a real and significant dropoff in talent after very early in the draft because everyone pretty much knows who the best talents are. You can have the best scouting in the world, but nothing is going to beat picking high (unless you're just incompetent).

Additionally, there is just never any benefit to keeping the bulk of players who are UFA-eligible and have positive trade value when you are rebuilding, because most of them will no longer be good or worth their contracts by the time you are ready to compete again. When the Sharks are even able to compete again, Brent Burns will be retired, Karlsson on his way out, and Meier in his 30's and probably declining. What they bring in trade, though, if scouted properly, will be in their prime. I can lose just as well without valuable assets, but at least by trading them I get something useful for the future. Because making the playoffs is a vain hope, I might as well just suck.

I just do not see how that is a problem. Some teams will suck every year. So what?
 
If every team missing the playoffs has the same chance of winning, it would at least force the worst ones to invest in their scouting. Boston is constantly finding great players without any high draft picks, and there are more examples.

It is ridiculous that it's more beneficial to be utterly worthless for a few seasons than actually trying to make the playoffs every year.
Teams like Boston and Detroit from the 90s are outliers, it isn't a reliable method of replenishing a prospect pool to cross your fingers and hope good players slip into the 20s every year

You may find it ridiculous, but every pro league in North America understands the need to cycle talent into their most destitute franchises, it would be far more ridiculous to gatekeep the best young talent away from the teams that need that talent most and locking those clubs in the basement for extended periods of time

There are plenty of awful teams that try to make the playoffs every year, the Sharks were in that situation at the beginning of the decade, it resulted in finishes as high as 11th worst and as low as 3rd worst, it didn't matter how hard they tried because they simply lacked the organizational assets and talent to meaningfully compete for a playoff spot, now they're engaged with the reality of their situation in a more honest manner
 
Teams like Boston and Detroit from the 90s are outliers, it isn't a reliable method of replenishing a prospect pool to cross your fingers and hope good players slip into the 20s every year

You may find it ridiculous, but every pro league in North America understands the need to cycle talent into their most destitute franchises, it would be far more ridiculous to gatekeep the best young talent away from the teams that need that talent most and locking those clubs in the basement for extended periods of time

There are plenty of awful teams that try to make the playoffs every year, the Sharks were in that situation at the beginning of the decade, it resulted in finishes as high as 11th worst and as low as 3rd worst, it didn't matter how hard they tried because they simply lacked the organizational assets and talent to meaningfully compete for a playoff spot, now they're engaged with the reality of their situation in a more honest manner
I understand why it's done, I just don't agree with the method. It's like rewarding the poorest performing companies with tax money and claim you're evening the field.

But NHL is pretty socialist which is sort of funny given where it's from. Salary caps, reward the worst teams, and in fact, the whole idea of a draft lottery instead of letting teams sign players themselves.

I'd compromise for an even chance lottery for all teams missing the playoffs. Maybe with a slight advantage for the worst teams.
 
I understand why it's done, I just don't agree with the method. It's like rewarding the poorest performing companies with tax money and claim you're evening the field.

But NHL is pretty socialist which is sort of funny given where it's from. Salary caps, reward the worst teams, and in fact, the whole idea of a draft lottery instead of letting teams sign players themselves.

I'd compromise for an even chance lottery for all teams missing the playoffs. Maybe with a slight advantage for the worst teams.
Of course the NHL is "socialist", it's a collectively bargained league of 32 separate subordinate franchises, the teams actively negotiate and collude with one another and depend on the business successes of one another in order to thrive

If the worst performing franchise crumbles and folds it effects the bottom line of the richest and most successful franchise, they need every team to be successful in order to thrive

These aren't 32 separate businesses in legitimate competition with one another, it's more like 32 separate McDonald's locations, if one of them goes under it undermines the branding of the rest of the stores and damages their bottom line

It hurts the Vegas Golden Knights if the Anaheim Ducks don't make money, they are invested in their health as a business entity for the sake of their own profitability, hence they got the best odds at a player who will get them there the fastest, it's pretty simple and obvious
 
San Jose is obviously bad, but can we talk about their puck luck?

They are rocking a 910 PDO at 5v5, with a 2.7% team shooting percentage. I've never heard of something so ridiculous. They've only scored 6 5v5 goals vs 21 expected goals
Even if they had scored 20 even strength goals rather than 6 in line with their xGF number they'd still have a -16 goal differential at even strength

And while their xGA at 28 is definitely favorable to their actual even strength goals against total of 36, their defense core is so barren of talent I do think it's reasonable to expect the team to underperform their defensive metrics for the entire season, this just isn't an NHL caliber defense and the goals against will reflect their inability to perform at an expected NHL level

The shooting percentage is more likely to rebound, but even of they had scored in line with their xGF numbers they'd only pass the Capitals in GF%

The Sharks would still be legitimately awful if they weren't getting this kind of luck, but just like how great teams need a little luck to win you may need a little luck to be historically bad, and man am I feeling lucky right now, lol
 
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Even if they had scored 20 even strength goals rather than 6 in line with their xGF number they'd still have a -16 goal differential at even strength

And while their xGA at 28 is definitely favorable to their actual even strength goals against total of 36, their defense core is so barren of talent I do think it's reasonable to expect the team to underperform their defensive metrics for the entire season, this just isn't an NHL caliber defense and the goals against will reflect their inability to perform at an expected NHL level

The shooting percentage is more likely to rebound, but even of they had scored in line with their xGF numbers they'd only pass the Capitals in GF%

The Sharks would still be legitimately awful if they weren't getting this kind of luck, but just like how great teams need a little luck to win you may need a little luck to be historically bad, and man am I feeling lucky right now, lol
I'm not disagreeing with any of this, as I said, the Sharks are bad. They are very clearly the worst in the league. But they are better than their -43 goal differential suggests.
 
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I'm not disagreeing with any of this, as I said, the Sharks are bad. They are very clearly the worst in the league. But they are better than their -43 goal differential suggests.
They probably could be better than this, but part of their streak of bad luck is also the insane schedule they had to start the year

Their first 4 opponents were all 4 of last year's division winners, they were essentially set up to fail by the schedule makers

I have to wonder what kind of effect on team morale and confidence it had to start the season on a winless homestand while being outshot by 75 over 4 games, while by the metrics this team might not be quite as bad as the results have shown I wouldn't be surprised if they FEEL like they're this bad, which might actually be worse for them
 
If anything this team likely waited a few years too many before deciding it was time to rebuild. There was no situation where the Sharks had any chance to be good this season or next. I am not sure anyone expected them to be this bad but there is not trade that would move the needle much. They need to build a brand new core.

It all comes down to the draft/development. Go through their draft history, theres a handful of good players since the last 15+ years. Its absymal and it shows on the roster.

Since 2006, the impact players are limited to

Couture
Hertl
Meier
Coyle
Norris
Ferrarro

Norris/Coyle didnt even play a game for the Sharks, so you're down to 4 players over nearly 20 years.

They didnt get anything for Karlsson either. Meier? Jury is still out, but if the Sharks havent f8xed their drafting/development pipeline, its gonna be a weak return too.
 
They probably could be better than this, but part of their streak of bad luck is also the insane schedule they had to start the year

Their first 4 opponents were all 4 of last year's division winners, they were essentially set up to fail by the schedule makers

I have to wonder what kind of effect on team morale and confidence it had to start the season on a winless homestand while being outshot by 75 over 4 games, while by the metrics this team might not be quite as bad as the results have shown I wouldn't be surprised if they FEEL like they're this bad, which might actually be worse for them
While that's true, Anaheim was also to set up to fail by the same schedule makers, but have persevered. Their first 5 games were against Vegas, Carolina, Dallas, Arizona, and Boston. In total, Anaheim has played:

Vegas x2
Boston x2
Coyotes x2
Carolina
Dallas
Pittsburgh
Philly
CBJ

Kinda crazy that they are 7-4 with that schedule.
 
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Edmonton vs. San Jose is gonna be an all-time battle.

The battle:


giphy.gif
 
While that's true, Anaheim was also to set up to fail by the same schedule makers, but have persevered. Their first 5 games were against Vegas, Carolina, Dallas, Arizona, and Boston. In total, Anaheim has played:

Vegas x2
Boston x2
Coyotes x2
Carolina
Dallas
Pittsburgh
Philly
CBJ

Kinda crazy that they are 7-4 with that schedule.
The real difference is that Anaheim has already started collecting young talent and is much further along in their rebuild than the Sharks are

Since the Ducks started tanking they've already added Zegras, McTavish and Carlsson to this year's roster

They also added Kilorn and Gudad this year in UFA

Since we started tanking our 1st round picks of Smith and Musty are still in college and major junior and we added Duclair, Hoffman, Granlund and Ruuta through trade, those guys don't have the same winning pedigree as the Ducks free agents unless you want to compare Gudas to Ruuta, and even then it's questionable what impact he would have on a bottom feeder with no support

The Ducks are starting their upswing based on the development of their young players (and also some pretty lucky comeback wins, if we're being honest)

The Sharks aren't yet at that point in the rebuild, we're arguably still in the teardown phase, we haven't added a single young player of consequence outside of William Eklund, and he's not the kind of prospect that will alter our fortunes all by himself

The Sharks are probably going to look about this bad for the next 3 years at minimum unless we luck into a transformative talent in the draft lottery, this is gonna be a real slow burn
 
If every team missing the playoffs has the same chance of winning, it would at least force the worst ones to invest in their scouting. Boston is constantly finding great players without any high draft picks, and there are more examples.

It is ridiculous that it's more beneficial to be utterly worthless for a few seasons than actually trying to make the playoffs every year.
Not all team locations are created equal. And that affects your ability to either attract or retain Free Agents.

More people would want to live in a Boston or a San Jose than they would, say, a Winnipeg.
 
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They're shooting 2.7% at 5v5 through 11 games. Literally how??? How do you even do that?

A typical low-danger save percentage is around .970. Goaltenders just miss 3% of the time and the Sharks are shooting below that.
Goalies just miss 3% of the time on NHL average low danger shots.

One might argue that Sharks shots this year, whether high, medium, or low danger, are weaker and easier to handle than NHL average low danger shots.

Conceptually, this has to be possible - you put me and 17 friends on the ice, and I don't care where we're shooting from or whether we get to make cross-ice or behind-the-net passes or get to screen, an NHL goaltender is going to save virtually every shot we make, because none of us are going to be aiming for anything except the vague direction of the goal or beating 50 mph on our shots.

The Sharks shooting so far this year might legitimately be only a little better than me and my friends.
 
The real difference is that Anaheim has already started collecting young talent and is much further along in their rebuild than the Sharks are

Since the Ducks started tanking they've already added Zegras, McTavish and Carlsson to this year's roster

They also added Kilorn and Gudad this year in UFA

Since we started tanking our 1st round picks of Smith and Musty are still in college and major junior and we added Duclair, Hoffman, Granlund and Ruuta through trade, those guys don't have the same winning pedigree as the Ducks free agents unless you want to compare Gudas to Ruuta, and even then it's questionable what impact he would have on a bottom feeder with no support

The Ducks are starting their upswing based on the development of their young players (and also some pretty lucky comeback wins, if we're being honest)

The Sharks aren't yet at that point in the rebuild, we're arguably still in the teardown phase, we haven't added a single young player of consequence outside of William Eklund, and he's not the kind of prospect that will alter our fortunes all by himself

The Sharks are probably going to look about this bad for the next 3 years at minimum unless we luck into a transformative talent in the draft lottery, this is gonna be a real slow burn
the difference is drafting.

The ducks are getting 2 NHL level prospects out of their draft each year since 2019. Sharks really started their rebuild a lot later. This is the bottom of the barrel right now, even Colorado had to get there to draft Makar.
 
San Jose is obviously bad, but can we talk about their puck luck?

They are rocking a 910 PDO at 5v5, with a 2.7% team shooting percentage. I've never heard of something so ridiculous. They've only scored 6 5v5 goals vs 21 expected goals
This is definitely true. We are a bad team -- but having attended 10-1 and watched 10-2, those games should have been more like 7-3 and 7-4. Horrible losses, but not historic. The puck luck is really bad. But... low skill and no good system will make your bad luck, just like lots of skill and a good system will make your good luck. If the Gods had ordained a "fair" first 11 games, I bet the sharks would have already won 1 or 2. Max. But now the confidence is gone and the morale is obviously low.

Even if they had scored 20 even strength goals rather than 6 in line with their xGF number they'd still have a -16 goal differential at even strength

The Sharks would still be legitimately awful if they weren't getting this kind of luck, but just like how great teams need a little luck to win you may need a little luck to be historically bad, and man am I feeling lucky right now, lol
Definitely we would still be very bad. weastern has been on the "Sharks will be historically bad" train on the Sharks boards all year and he's convincing me, but I do think that luck has made it a smidge worse than it should have been.

if the Sharks havent f8xed their drafting/development pipeline, its gonna be a weak return too.
Yes, absolutely our drafting was subpar in the 2010's. Step 1 to fixing the draft/development pipeline is to hire a new GM and clean house, which has been done. Grier's first draft was 3 days after he was hired, and he still made a ballsy move that the jury is out on (trading down from 11... if Bystedt hits, it'll be a win). This past draft, there was a clear direction and it seemed to be a successful draft given what we know at the time, although he may be judged in history for passing on Michkov (assuming Michkov did not tell him he didn't want to play for the Sharks).

God willing, we are on the Ducks path (and the Devils and Avs before them) and can draft well starting from 2022-23. We'll likely still be drafting high 2024-26 though.
 
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Yes, absolutely our drafting was subpar in the 2010's. Step 1 to fixing the draft/development pipeline is to hire a new GM and clean house, which has been done. Grier's first draft was 3 days after he was hired, and he still made a ballsy move that the jury is out on (trading down from 11... if Bystedt hits, it'll be a win). This past draft, there was a clear direction and it seemed to be a successful draft given what we know at the time, although he may be judged in history for passing on Michkov (assuming Michkov did not tell him he didn't want to play for the Sharks).

God willing, we are on the Ducks path (and the Devils and Avs before them) and can draft well starting from 2022-23. We'll likely still be drafting high 2024-26 though.

Trust me, as a Montreal fan, I know how long/difficult it is for a team to fix its talent pipeline. We've been more lucky with successful NHL trades and waiver pickups though.

unfortunately for Grier he coudl be fired befire the results show, even if he does a fantastic job, because these changes take long to show.

On the bright side, the Sharks only have Hertl on a significant contract, with Vlasic and Couture's expiring befire it matters for the Sharks (Couture's would expire right at the same time as the 2024 pick elc).

Theyll have to find a way to get sime stronger vets though, bc as we've seen in buffalo and edmonton, teams without a leadership group tend to take much longer to rebuild.
 
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