Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[SEALBound]

My bold prediction is that Cullen's going to have a miserable season out in Minny.

I mean, I don't think he's gonna end up with 3 consecutive cups to end his career but I think it would be okay. Would be produce better and have a better shot at the cup in Pittsburgh? Yes, 100%.

Says the loss of Cullen may be bigger than Bonino, as the team is likely to get away from the "4 lines that can score" model, because Rowney/McClement aren't going to be able to generate enough offense. If Cullen came back (not sure if this was floated or just speculation), Pens could go with something like Hagelin-Cullen-Reaves. Also says that coaching staff had big impact on bringing in McClement for PTO. He says one source put McClement's chances at about 70% for earning a contract.

Like said, nothing we didn't already know. Just looking at the totality of losing both Cullen and Bonino really, really sucks. All things considered though, it's not like the 4th line was ultra productive for us in the regular season. I think the production can be replaced if they are willing to put skill on it with Reaves.

Best thing Sully could do is turn Reaves into a selective use player. Should Reaves play 82 games? IMHO, no. 40-50, sure - mostly when "needed". I would much rather get some of the younger kids like ZAR and Sprong some time.

McClement is what he is. There's no magic there. He's a Adams/Porter type that will do what he is asked and nothing more. If he signs he's a 5g, 10-15pt player.

Says for impact trade targets for 3C, Penguins have identified more players who can play center and wing, rather than just strictly being a center.

That narrows it down. Smart move but as the versatility of a player increases, so does the price.

Says don't be surprised if we see a big jump up the depth chart by Pouliot. Says some people on the inside believe he is going to shock a lot of people, and Pens feel he has shored up some of the mental areas of his game that hindered him in the past.

This was an interesting snipbit that I am curious to see play out. If you look, on paper and theoretically, what Pouliot is, this makes sense and it would be a big step forward for the team. However...it's Pouliot and this is reality. Same thing was said last year after he spent the summer with Gary Roberts. Came in jacked and wowwed people...which materialized into nothing really. He's with us so...I'll always give him the chance. I'm not expecting Letang but if he could be Cole (first year) level, I'd be a'okay with that.

Two Things to watch
1) Usage of Matt Hunwick. Says Sullivan pushed hard for the signing, and some believe his good play could lead to Maatta being shopped.
2) How married coaching staff is to Rowney. Says he had good post season, but small sample size, and there are more offensively skilled players pushing for playing time. Pens felt Rowney was better at W than C.

I thought Hunwick was a great signing. I really liked his game against us and I thought he did a great job in the playoffs. In the trade forums, I went for him hard. I think he will surprise people here. Hunwick and Pouliot moving up in the world is nothing but good for us, especially when it enables us to shop Maatta.

Everyone thought Rowney was better at W than C. That's a "duh". Fact is though, he can play center and we are rather short on them so...yeah. He's a guy you don't mind putting in the press box for a couple weeks. There's "value" to that.

Says nothing imminent and unlikely to happen before the season, but league sources contend that Maatta remains in play and the Pens are waiting for the perfect deal....and that one would happen before the trade deadline.

Maatta out for a center/wing impact player of similar value makes a lot of sense. If Hunwick and Pouliot take that step forward like they hope, we would be sitting good.

Jake-Sid-Sheary
Rust-Geno-Kessel
Hags-3C-Horny
Wilson-McClement-Reaves

Dumo-Letang
Cole-Schultz
Pouliot-Hunwick
Rudwedel

MM/Niemi

If that 3C is an impact player like Duchene, we are dangerous once again.

On Will Butcher, said the Pens figured they did not have a good shot, but were disappointed that they did not get much of a chance to even make an impression. Penguins feel they have a very similar prospect in Jeff Taylor.

Free prospects are always nice but I don't hate the fact we didn't get him. Oh well. We got Johnson and ZAR which is quite the haul for NCAA free agents all things considered.

I like the Jeff Taylor comparison. The Clendening one also worked well. Could we used another Taylor/Clendening, sure. Is that going to make or break the defensive prospect pool considering who else is there, no.

I'll bet that Cullen will do better in Minny this year than any 4C will do here.

4C Cullen in Pit
4C Cullen in Minny
4C Other in Pit
4C Same other in Minny

There's your "how well will they do" order. If it was Glass and Adams on the wings on the 4th line, I'd be freaking out. Likely it's a guy like Wilson/Hagelin and Reaves so it's not like it will just be a placeholder line like in the past.

 

[mpp9]

Yep. We can do as good or better than Bones with the right trade, but we're not going to get anyone as good as Cullen for 4C.

He's the best 4C in the league and exceptional value for money. There's no way to replace that.

Get a 2C to play 3C. I think that'd offset things.

 

[Pens x]

Rowney McClement Reaves

That is sad and pathetic.

I know, I know, Jimmy has plenty of time to fix it! But it's depressing nonetheless. This is how bad the fourth line could be before we even suffer an injury. This could potentially be our best fourth line.

If someone would have told you that would be the Pens' fourth line 2 months ago you wouldn't believe it.

No way Jim goes into the season with that! He will fix it! He has all summer to sign someone! He can also make a trade before September.

 

[Riptide]

I wouldn't mind seeing Eric Fehr back as 3 or 4C. We know what we have in him.

He will be going back on waivers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

When was the last time TIOPS was right about anything? I don't see any sort of scenario where trading Maatta makes sense, especially not when Hunwick is going to replace him. Hunwick is Cole's replacement for when Cole prices himself out of here.

 

[Gold Diamond]

He will be going back on waivers.

Which is why we should re-acquire him if possible. He was shipped out last year because there was no room for him on the roster with the emergence of Guentzel and we had killer depth in our bottom six.

We no longer have this depth. I'd think he'd be more than adequate back there now.

 

[SEALBound]

Get a 2C to play 3C. I think that'd offset things.

Adding a good skill guy to the 4th line can help too. Hags-4C-Reaves with Rowney in the press box isn't terrible. Plenty of teams make it on 3 lines and a 4th whatever. Considering our wing depth, I think we are okay still.

That is sad and pathetic.

I know, I know, Jimmy has plenty of time to fix it! But it's depressing nonetheless. This is how bad the fourth line could be before we even suffer an injury. This could potentially be our best fourth line.

If someone would have told you that would be the Pens' fourth line 2 months ago you wouldn't believe it.

No way Jim goes into the season with that! He will fix it! He has all summer to sign someone! He can also make a trade before September.

You also assume that no one from camp usurps a spot. What if Sprong/ZAR/Bleuger dominate at camp?

DS/ZAR-Bleuger-Reaves may not be the worst line ever. Too many things to still get figured out.

He will be going back on waivers.

Tell ya what...I wouldn't object. Fehr at 4C wouldn't be a bad consolation prize after missing out on Cullen. Course, I would rather know what the status of guys like Karlsson, Lindberg, Haula, Sheahan, etc are before I dive back.

When was the last time TIOPS was right about anything? I don't see any sort of scenario where trading Maatta makes sense, especially not when Hunwick is going to replace him. Hunwick is Cole's replacement for when Cole prices himself out of here.

I don't think there's anything there that we didn't really already know. No real rumors. That's all information that anyone is capable of getting just asking for an interview with a Pens FO person. Not like "the deal for Maatta is...XXXXX". But it is TIOPS so...point taken.

 

[Shady Machine]

Here's what I would do on opening night (I do not think this will happen at all). If no 3C is brought in before the season starts (which I think one will be) I'd like to see:

Sheary Crosby Hornqvist (18min/g)
Hagelin Malkin Kessel (18min/g)
Wilson Guentzel Rust (15min/g)
Rowney McClement Reaves (9min/g)
Kuhn

Dumo Letang
Maatta Schultz
Cole Hunwick
Pouliot Ruh

Murray Niemi

PK:

Hags Rowney
Rust McClement

Give the fourth line all of the pk draws. Give Jake and Geno the o zone draws and Sid and McClement the d zone ones. I'd just like to see if Jake could basically be what Duchene would be. An offensive 3C who can play the wing when we shorten the bench... JR will probably just pull a trade sometime before Dec tho which I'm good with too.

Wow I hate that 4th line so much. Can you say Gladams?

 

[Gurglesons]

When was the last time TIOPS was right about anything? I don't see any sort of scenario where trading Maatta makes sense, especially not when Hunwick is going to replace him. Hunwick is Cole's replacement for when Cole prices himself out of here.

If one player is expendable on our defense if Pouliot steps up, it is probably Maatta sadly.

 

[Sypher04]

Wow I hate that 4th line so much. Can you say Gladams?

I gotta say I agree.

Basically best we'd be able to hope for from that line is that we don't get scored on. They won't contribute anything else.

McClement is well past his expiry imo.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If one player is expendable on our defense if Pouliot steps up, it is probably Maatta sadly.

I don't think so, they're not going to trade Maatta when Cole is a free agent after next year. If Pouliot steps up and actually proves to be a NHLer, they'll keep all 7 D throughout the season and then let Cole walk as a free agent after this year.

Also, on that 4th line, where is Kuhnhackl? Why don't you start Sprong in the NHL in the top-9 if Guentzel is playing center to start the year, which keeps Wilson on the 4th line? There are a lot better ways to make that 4th line than Rowney-McClement-Reaves.

The best 4th line I think the Penguins can make right now is Wilson-Rowney-Kuhnhackl, which I actually think would be a decent to solid 4th line. Replacing Kuhnhackl with Reaves and I still think that line is decent.

 

[Pens x]

Wow I hate that 4th line so much. Can you say Gladams?

You are going to get roasted for that comment. You are forgetting about Bleuger! ZAR! Dea! Or any other unknown fringe NHL prospect in our system.

But yea, our fourth line has the potential to compete with Gladams for lack of offense. I don't think it'll be quite as bad, but it will likely be pathetic. Acquiring a 3C isn't going to improve that dumpster of a fourth line.

 

[Shady Machine]

You are going to get roasted for that comment. You are forgetting about Bleuger! ZAR! Dea! Or any other unknown fringe NHL prospect in our system.

But yea, our fourth line has the potential to compete with Gladams for lack of offense. I don't think it'll be quite as bad, but it will likely be pathetic. Acquiring a 3C isn't going to improve that dumpster of a fourth line.

I think Blueger if he's ready can make it better but I just can't stand a wing combo of Rowney and Reaves unless the center has some offense to his game. Rowney-Cullen-Reaves wouldn't be a total dumpster fire but putting McClement in the middle blows.

I don't think it will be Gladams bad but the NHL has moved toward speed and skill on all 4 lines (some teams with more depth than others) so that is today's version of Glafams.

 

[Riptide]

I thought he was just a warm body for camp?

Cullen was a very good fourth line center. But people are acting like he's irreplaceable. He's tough to replace in late August but had we signed someone respectable during free agency, I don't think the outcry would be so severe.

This again?

 

[SEALBound]

You are going to get roasted for that comment. You are forgetting about Bleuger! ZAR! Dea! Or any other unknown fringe NHL prospect in our system.

But yea, our fourth line has the potential to compete with Gladams for lack of offense. I don't think it'll be quite as bad, but it will likely be pathetic. Acquiring a 3C isn't going to improve that dumpster of a fourth line.

Get off the cross, we need the wood.

It's that line of thinking that would have said "Not a chance will Conor Sheary ever amount to anything in the NHL. He's too small. Rust? Where was he drafted? He's an unknown. Will never make an impact in the regular season, let alone the playoffs. Wilson? He's an unknown! Murray? He didn't immediately step into the NHL. No reason to expect him to do anything at the NHL level."

It's not unreasonable to believe our current prospect will help us fill in some holes. If there is ONE thing that has been proven the last two years that resulted in two cups...is that our young "fringe NHL'ers" are more than capable of making an impact.

Is the 4th line a dumpster fire? If it's Rowney-McClem-Reaves, absolutely. Are Stanley Cups won in October with 4th lines? To you...maybe. To the rest of us not on the edge about to jump over a 4th line...no.

 

[Riptide]

I thought Hunwick was a great signing. I really liked his game against us and I thought he did a great job in the playoffs. In the trade forums, I went for him hard. I think he will surprise people here. Hunwick and Pouliot moving up in the world is nothing but good for us, especially when it enables us to shop Maatta.

Seal, I think we were alone in that crusade. The good news is in a couple of months we'll get to see how good of an idea it was. I wanted Perron like a fat kid wants a smartie... worked out great for the first couple months. Hopefully Hunwick does a little better.

I don't really have any faith in Pouliot taking that next step... but who knows. Maybe he too will surprise us. Would be nice.

 

[Shady Machine]

For the record, I'm just saying that Rowney-McClement-Reaves is a bad 4th line. I'm not arguing that we can't put together a solid 4th line.

For me, it really hinges on Blueger. If he can be ready for an NHL center role by December, a Wilson-Blueger-Reaves/Rowney line can be fine with me. Dea or Simon, if they slot in at center, are other interesting options. We just need an offensive catalyst on the line that's defensively responsible. You can have a plugger or 2 if you have a guy that can do something with the puck once you get it.

 

[Riptide]

Which is why we should re-acquire him if possible. He was shipped out last year because there was no room for him on the roster with the emergence of Guentzel and we had killer depth in our bottom six.

We no longer have this depth. I'd think he'd be more than adequate back there now.

He was shipped out last year because he asked to be traded - the year before, prior to the 16 cup win. He was upset that he wasn't getting a chance to be the #3C he signed here to be.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

If I thought TIOPS wasn't **** I'd say that them looking for flexibility could be point to them thinking one of the C prospects could be a 3C calibre player sooner rather than later.

As ugly as RMcR would be, and it would be hideous, they still have not only time to address it but ZAR, Sprong and the C candidates in the AHL to alter the depth chart later in the season.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

I don't think so, they're not going to trade Maatta when Cole is a free agent after next year. If Pouliot steps up and actually proves to be a NHLer, they'll keep all 7 D throughout the season and then let Cole walk as a free agent after this year.

Also, on that 4th line, where is Kuhnhackl? Why don't you start Sprong in the NHL in the top-9 if Guentzel is playing center to start the year, which keeps Wilson on the 4th line? There are a lot better ways to make that 4th line than Rowney-McClement-Reaves.

The best 4th line I think the Penguins can make right now is Wilson-Rowney-Kuhnhackl, which I actually think would be a decent to solid 4th line. Replacing Kuhnhackl with Reaves and I still think that line is decent.

I was responding to people being concerned about taking the load off of Sid and Geno and that Sid would have to be the 2nd pk center if Jake is 3C ... Ideally you'd go

Sheary Sid Horns
Rust Geno Sprong
Hags Jake Phil
Wilson Rowney Reaves/Kuhn

Love that top 9. Really hope they go with that if no one is brought in (which I think will happen).

But that leaves Sid taking PK draws.

Or:

Wilson McClement Rowney

But they aren't sitting Reaves.

I guess Rowney could just take most of the draws. And if you need a faceoff on the pk, Sid takes it and then comes off.

 

[billybudd]

If you're "depressed" by the state of the Penguins--3 months after they won a 2nd Stanley Cup in 2 years--that's something you need to get a clinical professional to look at. There's nothing "Jim" could possibly do that would be good enough to correct any problem that would lead to this being possible.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I mean... Eric Fehr has versatility and can PK. He also wanted a bigger role in Pittsburgh. Is he a legit 3C option for us?

 

[Pens x]

I mean... Eric Fehr has versatility and can PK. He also wanted a bigger role in Pittsburgh. Is he a legit 3C option for us?

It kind of depends on Rutherford's plan, if he has one. If he doesn't think he can land a respectable 3C at this time, Fehr might be okay for a couple of months there. I wouldn't want him as our full-time 3C.

 

[billybudd]

Those western teams and their travel schedules will do Cullen no favors, not to mention playing for the Wild vs. the Pens. He fell off pretty heavily towards the end of his last tenure with them, and my understanding is they didn't even offer him a deal. So I'm a bit surprised they even offered him something now.

Well, it goes to the below point, which I'm sure reflects Fletcher's thinking.

I'll bet that Cullen will do better in Minny this year than any 4C will do here.

What RRP's getting at is that Cullen's been the best 4C in the NHL by a canyon over the last two years. Even if he loses something or struggles with travel, the thinking would be there's a good chance he still maintains that position, if not the same amount of separation.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but once guys get into their 40s, when they do fall off, they fall off fast. Chelios was a solid D one year and an embarrassment the next. Gary Roberts and Dave Andreychuk each went from 20 goal guys to fourth liner to buyout in 18 months.

Me, I just hate watching the once great struggle and think they should err on the side of retirement, especially if they're a twice reigning champion

 

[cheesedanish87]

I'm really not concerned about the 4th line center.

Give Rowney a chance to see what can do, if he fails then call up one of the young guys during the year this is playing well for the baby pens.

If you can't find anyone in the organization to be a 4th line center JR can find somebody at the deadline for a mid round pick.