Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[Gurglesons]

But you said you don't want to care what happens to our window beyond the next two years. If you still back this statement, why does it matter what happens after Malkin slows down?

And, even if they were overpayments, I still don't see a better use for our money. I'll pay at the high end of the market (as long as the contract is movable) if that's what makes a stronger team.

Because I think that Bennett with wingers like Rust, Hagelin, Kessel or Hornqvist puts him in a much better situation than Calgary.

Because I think we won our last two cups based on center depth and everyone arguing with me doesn't.

And because I believe finding one player to eat into Crosby and Malkin's defensive minutes like
Bonino and Cullen did is going to be insanely difficult unless we give up a role player like Rust or Hornqvist.

Or we are going to get players like McClement. Which is asking a lot of our top six.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not in favor of any deal for Duchene that involves losing two of Sheary, Sprong, or Guentzel. I'm not in favor of any deal involving Guentzel, period, as a matter of fact. I think it solves one issue, but creates another.

That is fine, but Rutherford has a history of paying whatever he thinks is necessary for what he wants.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Because I think that Bennett with wingers like Rust, Hagelin, Kessel or Hornqvist puts him in a much better situation than Calgary.

Because I think we won our last two cups based on center depth and everyone arguing with me doesn't.

And because I believe finding one player to eat into Crosby and Malkin's defensive minutes like
Bonino and Cullen did is going to be insanely difficult unless we give up a role player like Rust or Hornqvist.

Or we are going to get players like McClement. Which is asking a lot of our top six.

This cup was definitely not won on center depth. Bonino didn't do much all year. Revisionist history.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This cup was definitely not won on center depth. Bonino didn't do much all year. Revisionist history.

and we lost Bonino for the finals. Now the guy who finished as our 4C is being called a hole at 4C.

 

[PensandCaps]

Bennett has played with good wingers in Calgary. You can't blame everything on bad wingers. He's proven nothing that he's even close to being worth Guentzel. And I'm a big fan of his, gritty and very skilled. You can't just assume though that he will break out and be a 20 min a night centre who puts up 60 points. He had 26 points last year. Guentzel had 21 points in the playoffs.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That is fine, but Rutherford has a history of paying whatever he is necessary for what he wants.

With the Pens, only expendable assets. What deals has he made that involved trading a current valuable piece of the Pens going the other way?

The Reaves trade that most people deem overpayment (not getting into whether it was or not), it involved two non-roster assets in Sundqvist and the 1st. Neither asset was a big piece of the 2017-18 roster, so even if it was overpayment, it was overpayment in something that won't affect how the team does this season.

After that, the Kessel deal didn't involve trading away whatever it took to land him, nor did the Daley or Hagelin deals. And even the Hainsey deal only involved "futures" (a draft pick), not someone who was currently a key member of the club.

So in terms of him trading away a bunch of assets that are immediate help to the club, I'm not sure which history you're referring to. Maybe Despres for Lovejoy, but in that case the club (for whatever reason) seemed to just dislike Despres anyways. The same can't be said of their feelings toward Sheary, Sprong or, God forbid, Guentzel.

 

[Jenkins]

I'm not in favor of any deal for Duchene that involves losing two of Sheary, Sprong, or Guentzel. I'm not in favor of any deal involving Guentzel, period, as a matter of fact. I think it solves one issue, but creates another.

Agreed also any deal involving Maatta for me. I like our D squad at the moment. Lots of depth and everyone can play top 4 minutes if required and be successful (for short perods re: Cole, Hunwick). Our bottom pair won't get taken advantage of like we do to other teams.

A pick for a Karlsson/Lindberg type is all we really need with the quality of our wingers. If Sprong comes in and kills it in the NHL maybe you can move Sheary+ for an upgrade at 3C then Karlsson/Lindberg drop to 4C.

I've said a few times I think Lindberg is the guy that could really improve on our team. He has the right attributes. If JR could put in some effort to get Karlsson and Lindberg that'd be even better.

 

[Gurglesons]

This cup was definitely not won on center depth. Bonino didn't do much all year. Revisionist history.

Bonino logged on average 16 minutes a night playing nearly 60 percent of his minutes as a defensive center and put up 37 puts. I guarantee you who ever we bring into play center doesn't match that production, or we are forced to do the Sutter thing where we have to give our 3C favorable match ups and bury Crosby.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Bennett has played with good wingers in Calgary. You can't blame everything on bad wingers. He's proven nothing that he's even close to being worth Guentzel. And I'm a big fan of his, gritty and very skilled. You can't just assume though that he will break out and be a 20 min a night centre who puts up 60 points. He had 26 points last year. Guentzel had 21 points in the playoffs.

Eh, I don't agree with pixie wanting to acquire him, but I don't think the above is accurate at all.

In his rookie year, Bennett played LW with two checkers in Backlund and Frolik. Obviously both good defensively with a bit of offense, which actually allowed Bennett to have a strong rookie season with 19 goals and 38 points.

This past season, he was moved to center and was primarily flanked by the likes of Brouwer, Versteeg, or Ferland. Brouwer, in particularly, drags down anyone he plays with, and Bennett had the misfortune of playing with him quite a bit. Brouwer was essentially Calgary's version of Kunitz.

Whenever Bennett was used on a line with Gaudreau, he produced at around a point per game pace. So I do think that shows that Bennett can be a quality point producer if he plays with a bit of talent.

 

[Gurglesons]

and we lost Bonino for the finals. Now the guy who finished as our 4C is being called a hole at 4C.

Come on dude. Rowney played 4C for four games and averaged 10 minutes. He also played under seven minutes in the two games Nash didn't blow us out in.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Bonobo logged on average 16 minutes a night playing nearly 60 percent of his minutes as a defensive center and put up 37 puts. I guarantee you who ever we bring into play center doesn't match that production, or we are forced to do the Sutter thing where we have to give our 3C favorable match ups and bury Crosby.

That's got to be one of the funniest typos ever.

Or maybe silly things amuse me.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's got to be one of the funniest typos ever.

Or maybe silly things amuse me.

Lol. It is also a killer pale ale from Monkey Paw in San Diego.

 

[Jenkins]

Because I think that Bennett with wingers like Rust, Hagelin, Kessel or Hornqvist puts him in a much better situation than Calgary.

Because I think we won our last two cups based on center depth and everyone arguing with me doesn't.

And because I believe finding one player to eat into Crosby and Malkin's defensive minutes like
Bonino and Cullen did is going to be insanely difficult unless we give up a role player like Rust or Hornqvist.

Or we are going to get players like McClement. Which is asking a lot of our top six.

It was a combination of everything.

-good depth on wing
-good depth in centre
-good depth on D
-great goaltending
-speedy forwards
-players who have the will to keep going no matter the obstacles
-great coaching
-diverse set of skills across all lines, pairings

Last but not least teams may be able to replicate the above but we have the added bonus off 3 elite forwards who can drive their own lines. So you will have Phil, Sid or Geno against the bottom pair D/bottom 6 F for a good amount of time. Or they play their top 4 D a lot more and that will cause fatigue in a 7 game series and we certainly took advantage of that.

Not sure if I missed anything else

 

[Gurglesons]

It was a combination of everything.

-good depth on wing
-good depth in centre
-good depth on D
-great goaltending
-speedy forwards
-players who have the will to keep going no matter the obstacles
-great coaching
-diverse set of skills across all lines, pairings

Last but not least teams may be able to replicate the above but we have the added bonus off 3 elite forwards who can drive their own lines. So you will have Phil, Sid or Geno against the bottom pair D/bottom 6 F for a good amount of time. Or they play their top 4 D a lot more and that will cause fatigue in a 7 game series and we certainly took advantage of that.

Not sure if I missed anything else

Cool. I'm really curious to see how our great depth at wing plays without two 30+ pt pivots in between them. Because for all the "wing" depth we had Kunitz was our third best winger in the playoffs in terms of production.

Also, we got two huge breaks in the Nashville series that allows us to win the cup.

 

[PensandCaps]

Eh, I don't agree with pixie wanting to acquire him, but I don't think the above is accurate at all.

In his rookie year, Bennett played LW with two checkers in Backlund and Frolik. Obviously both good defensively with a bit of offense, which actually allowed Bennett to have a strong rookie season with 19 goals and 38 points.

This past season, he was moved to center and was primarily flanked by the likes of Brouwer, Versteeg, or Ferland. Brouwer, in particularly, drags down anyone he plays with, and Bennett had the misfortune of playing with him quite a bit. Brouwer was essentially Calgary's version of Kunitz.

Whenever Bennett was used on a line with Gaudreau, he produced at around a point per game pace. So I do think that shows that Bennett can be a quality point producer if he plays with a bit of talent.

Frolik and Backlund are pretty good. Especially Backlund. And Bennett had chances with the top line two lines as a winger. And i Agree, he looked his best as a winger when paired with Monahan. But Versteeg and Ferland are quality wingers. I agree with Brouwer though, he's just awful.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ah c'mon now. The argument against Reaves has nothing to do with nobility and everything to do with a belief that there's no point trying something that doesn't work. Of course people who don't believe in deterrence are discounting Reaves entirely.

I'll wait and see how it goes, but I'm not a big fan of "We must do something and this is something".

Except there's nothing to support that. What we're trying to do is deploy the best fighter in the league to minimize targeted attempts to injure our superstars. Where exactly is the counter-evidence?

And the point I'm making about turning the other cheek is that while it's great to keep calm and carry on, it doesn't amount to much if your franchise player ends up on the shelf with a concussion, which we came dangerously close to seeing last year from exactly the kind of attack Reaves was brought in to curb.

So now the rest of our team can turn their cheek while Reaves caves in the perpetrator's.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Bonino logged on average 16 minutes a night playing nearly 60 percent of his minutes as a defensive center and put up 37 puts. I guarantee you who ever we bring into play center doesn't match that production, or we are forced to do the Sutter thing where we have to give our 3C favorable match ups and bury Crosby.

If you think what Bonino did last year can't be replaced then I just really disagree. Even with defensive draws, you've got a guy who was playing 16 minutes a night with a generational goalscorer and he scored 37 points and said winger had his worst goal scoring season ever. Every single winger who played significant minutes with Bonino had markedly worse metrics with Bonino than with anybody else they played with last season.

They can increase Crosby's defensive draws slightly, that's not a big deal. Crosby is a 200 foot player, it would not hurt the team one bit. Crosby is gonna produce with Guentzel one way or another. I don't see a problem unless you care more about Sid's trophy case than the success of the team.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Come on dude. Rowney played 4C for four games and averaged 10 minutes. He also played under seven minutes in the two games Nash didn't blow us out in.

fair enough. But let's also not pretend that Bonino had a good playoffs this year. He was solid defensively, but the offense just wasn't there at all.

 

[Jenkins]

Cool. I'm really curious to see how our great depth at wing plays without two 30+ pt pivots in between them. Because for all the "wing" depth we had Kunitz was our third best winger in the playoffs in terms of production.

Also, we got two huge breaks in the Nashville series that allows us to win the cup.

Our 4th line will change dynamics and be more of a grinding line. Which is fine. They'll be good defensively and can get some sustained O zone time. They won't score as much but certainly will wear down the opposition which is also useful for our top 9.

I have no doubt we will get a 30+ 3C.

Do you not think we have good winger depth? EDIT: Kunitz had the 4th most ice time of our wingers too. He scored 2 goals. Rust and Hornqvist had 12 between them even though they had less points.

Also we beat Nashville because we were the better team!

 

[Gurglesons]

fair enough. But let's also not pretend that Bonino had a good playoffs this year. He was solid defensively, but the offense just wasn't there at all.

I mean wild guess, but when you are eating 70% of the defensive starts it will effect your production.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I mean wild guess, but when you are eating 70% of the defensive starts it will effect your production.

sure, and you can find guys to play defensively for less than 4 mil if you are okay with them only putting up 4th line production.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I mean wild guess, but when you are eating 70% of the defensive starts it will effect your production.

The percentage of defensive zone draws gets higher with every post.

 

[Gurglesons]

Our 4th line will change dynamics and be more of a grinding line. Which is fine. They'll be good defensively and can get some sustained O zone time. They won't score as much but certainly will wear down the opposition which is also useful for our top 9.

I have no doubt we will get a 30+ 3C.

Do you not think we have good winger depth? EDIT: Kunitz had the 4th most ice time of our wingers too. He scored 2 goals. Rust and Hornqvist had 12 between them even though they had less points.

Also we beat Nashville because we were the better team!

I think we have good wing depth I think players like Rust, Kuhn, Hags and Wilson saw bumps from their centers. You

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Cool. I'm really curious to see how our great depth at wing plays without two 30+ pt pivots in between them. Because for all the "wing" depth we had Kunitz was our third best winger in the playoffs in terms of production.

Also, we got two huge breaks in the Nashville series that allows us to win the cup.

The solution is clearly to trade our leading goal scorer in the playoffs for a center who was 46% in the dot and had 26 points with 56% OZ starts in 81 regular season games last year.

Because centers and optimism unbound by the limits of plausibility.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think we have good wing depth I think players like Rust, Kuhn, Hags and Wilson saw bumps from their centers. You

I like Bones, but I don't think he was bumping up anybody's production last year.