The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Doug Prishpreed]

Imagine caring about the regular season, even strength goals? Where exactly does he doesn't want to win crap come from exactly? He has scored tons of key goals. He is not the reason the Sabres haven't made the playoffs. He is on the higher talent side of the team. His contract is ridiculous, but you go ask Terry Pegula how on earth he got to $72 M ($9 x 8 years) when no one else could offer more than seven years. It was absurd. It should have been a $60 M deal. Tops. Over 7, that would have been $8.57 M annually. I don't even believe any team would have paid that. Terry bid against himself. It was nuts. People hate Skinner because of the contract and that is not a good reason. Rasmus Dahlin has missed the playoffs six years. It's not his fault he got picked by an inept owner.

Why don't you ever address the whole other side of hockey? You also have to keep the goal out of your own net, and when you sacrifice that just to get goals, your team loses. It's the choice Skinner makes every night -- sacrifice the game to add goals to your personal stat sheet.

It's the reason every coach grows to hate him and the reason every team he's on fails and loses.

Lindy will coach for a couple years and groom Appert to eventually take his place, then Lindy goes to the Hockey Ops Prez role.

Ho does Wadell fit into that?

 

[Fjordy]

Bringing in Waddell as President of Hockey Ops would be one of the most professional things that Pegula has ever done in his time as Sabres owner. We've desperately needed a PoHO for years.

This makes a ton of sense (so it won't happen). Waddell would be great at helping Adams navigate the offseason and keep things in check because I'm not at all confident in Kevyn and how he'll handle giving Lindy a capable roster for the playoffs.

 

[Der Jaeger]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794041520406065510

Is this the moment Adams moves to President? Or Waddell as president? I took a look at teams with long-term stability and how they were structured.

Boston has Cam Neely as president.
Vegas has McPhee as president.
Florida has Matt Caldwell as president.
Detroit has Chris Ilitch as president.
Pittsburgh has Mario Lemieux as an active minority owner.
Toronto has Brendan Shanahan as president.
Tampa has a robust leadership group with Steve Griggs as CEO.

These teams have people in between the owner and the GM. These teams also have a consistent vision of how the organization should be run, and each has had stability and success.

Boston is Boston. We marvel at them, but they draft, develop, and play the same types of players year in and year out.

Vegas has a bar-nothing approach to winning, and it shows in everything they do.

Florida wanted a playoff style team, then went out and stuck to that plan.

Detroit hasn't been successful recently but they have been stable and even when they are down they aren't a crapshow.

Pittsburgh stuck to their plan to support Crosby and Malkin as long as they can.

As much as we crap on Toronto, they had a plan and it got them back to winning.

Tampa has had the most success over the past decade, and their structure between owner and GM is significant.

Why does all this matter? If the structure is GM-to-owner, you can end up with some really rash decisions. Having a buffer there keeps the owner calm, but also ensures that the GM sticks to the plan. GMs can sometimes make moves based on what's best for them and job stability.

I don't think it's a bad move to bring in an old hand like Waddell on some capacity.

 

[Fjordy]

Is this the moment Adams moves to President? Or Waddell as president? I took a look at teams with long-term stability and how they were structured.

Boston has Cam Neely as president.
Vegas has McPhee as president.
Florida has Matt Caldwell as president.
Detroit has Chris Ilitch as president.
Pittsburgh has Mario Lemieux as an active minority owner.
Toronto has Brendan Shanahan as president.
Tampa has a robust leadership group with Steve Griggs as CEO.

These teams have people in between the owner and the GM. These teams also have a consistent vision of how the organization should be run, and each has had stability and success.

Boston is Boston. We marvel at them, but they draft, develop, and play the same types of players year in and year out.

Vegas has a bar-nothing approach to winning, and it shows in everything they do.

Florida wanted a playoff style team, then went out and stuck to that plan.

Detroit hasn't been successful recently but they have been stable and even when they are down they aren't a crapshow.

Pittsburgh stuck to their plan to support Crosby and Malkin as long as they can.

As much as we crap on Toronto, they had a plan and it got them back to winning.

Tampa has had the most success over the past decade, and their structure between owner and GM is significant.

Why does all this matter? If the structure is GM-to-owner, you can end up with some really rash decisions. Having a buffer there keeps the owner calm, but also ensures that the GM sticks to the plan. GMs can sometimes make moves based on what's best for them and job stability.

I don't think it's a bad move to bring in an old hand like Waddell on some capacity.

I think Wadell could be both a great GM or POHO, this could be Kevyn's last season in Buffalo if they fail again, and an experienced guy like Wadell could help a lot with trades/signings, he has a ton of experience in building a good team, while Carolina's owner doesn't seem like the easiest guy to work with.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Is this the moment Adams moves to President? Or Waddell as president? I took a look at teams with long-term stability and how they were structured.

Boston has Cam Neely as president.
Vegas has McPhee as president.
Florida has Matt Caldwell as president.
Detroit has Chris Ilitch as president.
Pittsburgh has Mario Lemieux as an active minority owner.
Toronto has Brendan Shanahan as president.
Tampa has a robust leadership group with Steve Griggs as CEO.

These teams have people in between the owner and the GM. These teams also have a consistent vision of how the organization should be run, and each has had stability and success.

Boston is Boston. We marvel at them, but they draft, develop, and play the same types of players year in and year out.

Vegas has a bar-nothing approach to winning, and it shows in everything they do.

Florida wanted a playoff style team, then went out and stuck to that plan.

Detroit hasn't been successful recently but they have been stable and even when they are down they aren't a crapshow.

Pittsburgh stuck to their plan to support Crosby and Malkin as long as they can.

As much as we crap on Toronto, they had a plan and it got them back to winning.

Tampa has had the most success over the past decade, and their structure between owner and GM is significant.

Why does all this matter? If the structure is GM-to-owner, you can end up with some really rash decisions. Having a buffer there keeps the owner calm, but also ensures that the GM sticks to the plan. GMs can sometimes make moves based on what's best for them and job stability.

I don't think it's a bad move to bring in an old hand like Waddell on some capacity.

I didn't think about Adams moving to president and Wadell being GM, but that's an interesting scenario.. But considering the experience that both men have, you gotta think it would be the other way around. Wadell is an extremely successful business owner and has more in common with Pegula and the resume of a President than a GM.

Pegula might only be considering this because Wadell became available and he really likes him. He's both a buisiness man and a hockey man.

 

[Zman5778]

Is this the moment Adams moves to President? Or Waddell as president?

It never even occurred to me that Adams would be named PoHO and Waddell named GM.

Frankly, that might be an even better setup than Adams as GM and Waddell as PoHO.....especially if Adams isn't micromanaging Waddell.

 

[Jacob582]

Bringing in Waddell as President of Hockey Ops would be one of the most professional things that Pegula has ever done in his time as Sabres owner. We've desperately needed a PoHO for years.

I wonder if Pegula wants both the hockey department and business side to report to Waddell. COO Pete Guelli would then be Bills only.

EF stated Waddell has an acumen for both.

 

[Reddawg]

Ho does Wadell fit into that?

I didn't actually realize I was commenting on anything involving Waddell, for some reason Twitter posts stopped populating in my feed so I actually have to click links to see Twitter content and I usually don't. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I think Wadell could be both a great GM or POHO, this could be Kevyn's last season in Buffalo if they fail again, and an experienced guy like Wadell could help a lot with trades/signings, he has a ton of experience in building a good team, while Carolina's owner doesn't seem like the easiest guy to work with.

I think the likelihood of Adams getting fired is remote. He's got a lot longer leash from the Pegula's than any of us would want. But, to his defense, he took over an organization which was maybe the worst run in North American pro sports. He's rebuilt the prospect pipeline, kept amateur scouting on track, and made strides in player development, which was the worst part of the organization.

Pegula trusts him. He's going nowhere, especailly with Ruff back as coach. Both Ruff and Adams have 3 years, I suspect, to get into the playoffs.

I didn't think about Adams moving to president and Wadell being GM, but that's an interesting scenario.. But considering the experience that both men have, you gotta think it would be the other way around. Wadell is an extremely successful business owner and has more in common with Pegula and the resume of a President than a GM.

Pegula might only be considering this because Wadell became available and he really likes him. He's both a buisiness man and a hockey man.

I thought about it strictly from a trust perspective. Pegula trusts Adams. But Waddell as PoHo would give Adams an old hand to lean on for advice.

It never even occurred to me that Adams would be named PoHO and Waddell named GM.

Frankly, that might be an even better setup than Adams as GM and Waddell as PoHO.....especially if Adams isn't micromanaging Waddell.

For me, it came down to Pegula trusting Adams. Adams understands where Pegula wants to take the franchise.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Why don't you ever address the whole other side of hockey? You also have to keep the goal out of your own net, and when you sacrifice that just to get goals, your team loses. It's the choice Skinner makes every night -- sacrifice the game to add goals to your personal stat sheet.

It's the reason every coach grows to hate him and the reason every team he's on fails and loses.

What coach hated him? Krueger? That idiot. You are just making stuff up. He was mostly an even plus/minus player, and his possession stats are not terrible. Take an objective look at the roster instead of some belief about him not sacrificing. The guy is one of the best in the league, usually at drawing penalties. That helps his team. Yeah, he slipped on that count last year. These rants against Skinner are so ridiculous. Sabres have crap coaching and not enough talent. That's their problem. Not Skinner. He has been a positive in Buffalo until you measure against his salary and I repeat that is not his fault.

 

[Jacob582]

Terry Pegula is listed as Owner/CEO/President. So Waddell would take one or two of these titles off his plate.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Terry Pegula is listed as Owner/CEO/President. So Waddell would take one or two of these titles off his plate.

I will also be happy to take one or two of these titles off his plate.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Terry Pegula is listed as Owner/CEO/President. So Waddell would take one or two of these titles off his plate.

Give him all three. Someone start a GoFundMe

 

[Ace]

I don’t think that they’d fire Adams outright no matter what happens. Even if they fail another season. Or two. He’s the front office Matt Ellis. His boss loves him too much…but he has strengths. They just don’t fit the job he was handed. Communication skills and making department heads feel heard (because you let them work and listen to them) are qualities every office needs in a management role. His putting together an NHL roster and ability to make helpful moves has been atrocious though. So if he is moved out after another lost year or two…he’ll get a spot somewhere as a liaison between departments and ownership and be here forever. Like Ellis moving to a different role.

The question is, if this report is accurate, are they looking specifically for this one voice to bring into the room..or are they looking at others if he goes elsewhere?

Because…yeah. Another bad year and someone with a clue in the organization is going to need to tell Terry that time is well past up. And they’ll have to be in charge of building a new front office

 

[Jacob582]

Thinking about it more, here are my possibilities for Waddell.

COO
Guelli would be Bills only. Pegula likes having his fingers in the hockey side of things anyway with the GM having to report directly to him.

POHO
Possible, but see above.

President & CEO
Makes sense. Takes this off the plate of Pegula. Pegula might keep the title of President because it sounds cooler than just being listed as owner. But, will Pegula allow another layer between him and the hockey department?

 

[Fjordy]

I think the likelihood of Adams getting fired is remote. He's got a lot longer leash from the Pegula's than any of us would want. But, to his defense, he took over an organization which was maybe the worst run in North American pro sports. He's rebuilt the prospect pipeline, kept amateur scouting on track, and made strides in player development, which was the worst part of the organization.

Pegula trusts him. He's going nowhere, especailly with Ruff back as coach. Both Ruff and Adams have 3 years, I suspect, to get into the playoffs.
I thought about it strictly from a trust perspective. Pegula trusts Adams. But Waddell as PoHo would give Adams an old hand to lean on for advice.

I don't think Adams has another three years unless he makes the playoffs again, maybe 1-2 years, although I don't even believe in a second year.

 

[Beerz]

Terry Pegula is listed as Owner/CEO/President. So Waddell would take one or two of these titles off his plate.

Which would make sense as it seems he wants to be with/take care of Kim

 

[MarkusKetterer]

A lot of teams passed on Wyatt Johnson and he was drafted after a Covid year where the OHL was shut down. Can't blame Adams for missing that one.

I said before that draft that there’s gonna be a lot of “how did teams miss out on them?” questions, just because of the nature of everything that went on. So any misses by the Sabres I’m not gonna be angry about.

 

[Beerz]

Alex Nylander was picked 8th overall.

Grigorenko was picked 12th.

Girgensons was picked 14th.

Zack Kassian was picked 13th.

Marek Zagrapan was picked 13th.

Keith Ballard was picked 11th.

Erik Rasmussen was picked 7th.

There are plenty of guys picked in the range of the 11th pick who I would trade their careers for the remainder of Cirelli on his current contract.

Team building is not just about acquiring talented hockey players.



"I'm not looking for the best players. I'm looking for the right ones."

So you're saying there is risk in Hockey team building? Would you like a list of failures of players that were acquired for a 1st round pick?

Any way you slice it a 11th OA for Cirelli is a bad idea if it is Cirelli alone... that is my stance.

 

[Mattilaus]

I mean, they could just hire Waddell as a "special advisor". Have him advise adams and if adams fails you thrust him in as the interim GM.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

There is definitely going to be competition for Waddell. He’s likely going to have multiple options. I’m not getting my hopes up. lol

 

[paulmm3]

It has improved under Adams.

2020 was a massive success, there's no other way to put it. They went into the 1st covid draft with 6 picks, only made 5, and came out with 2 top 6 forwards who are still both 22 years old. That beats basically any Murray draft alone. The 3 other picks are nothing, but they were a 5th and 2 7ths.


2021 I broke down above.

2022 has the noted strength of picking 1st 3 times in a deepish draft, but they also seem to have hit late twice. Leinonen at 41 isn't going well, but Neuchev at 74 and especially Komarov at 134 is. If they get 2-3 roster players out of this draft, it'll be a success, and they could get more.

2023 Benson was a top 5 talent that fell for idiotic reasons. We may well have gotten a franchise-type winger at 13, and kudos to Adams for actually making that pick, because he could've been scared about size like 6-7 other GMs were. It's early, but Wahlberg also looks like an ahead-of-the-curve pick. We'll see on the rest, too soon.

2024 8 picks, we'll see how many we make.

Late to seeing this response but yeah, agree with you about amateur scouting. I was talking about pro scouting though - evaluating players who are already in the league. I think our amateur scouting is and has been significantly better than our pro scouting.

 

[zenthusiast]

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some sort of surprise addition/loss

I’ve heard that there’s some change coming midweek, but I don’t know whether it’s a rearrangement or a replacement

 

[dumbdick]

Sens fan. Would buffalo swap picks for one of your young goalies?

#7 for #11 + UPL/Levi?

 

[Beerz]

Sens fan. Would buffalo swap picks for one of your young goalies?

#7 for #11 + UPL/Levi?

No