The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[StrompTroller]

Wahlberg in 18 months.

18 weeks fam...

 

[TheMistyStranger]

18 weeks fam...

I'd put the odds of him making the team as under 1%. Definitely an injury call up candidate though

 

[StrompTroller]

I'd put the odds of him making the team as under 1%. Definitely an injury call up candidate though

Making the team and making his mark come December after injuries like you said are two different things. Depends on the person hurt and their position I reckon...

 

[Irie]

This trade is the equivalent of the movie trope of forgetting to get a christmas present for you kid, running store to store at closing time, the shelves are barren, then paying a guy $300 cash to get a toy from the toy store he's carrying into his house for a $50 present.

Mission accomplished but it would have been a lot cheaper and easier if the dad just did it earlier

The idea that the cost to acquire a solid, young 3C on a good contract would be cheaper if acquired sooner makes zero sense to me.

Guys like McLeod are never going to be shopped or available from their respective teams. If you want to acquire one, you are going to always have to pay through the nose.

The fault in Adam's plan isn't in the trade cost, it is in spending half a dozen high picks on small, homogeneous offensive players and not using any of those picks on guys of McLeod's ilk.

 

[TehDoak]

The idea that the cost to acquire a solid, young 3C on a good contract would be cheaper if acquired sooner makes zero sense to me.

Guys like McLeod are never going to be shopped or available from their respective teams. If you want to acquire one, you are going to always have to pay through the nose.

The fault in Adam's plan isn't in the trade cost, it is in spending half a dozen high picks on small, homogeneous offensive players and not using any of those picks on guys of McLeod's ilk.

I mean, Wennberg was available for just a contract, and he has shown more offensive production.

Considering we are what, 8M under the cap after projected contracts for UPL and Malenstyn, I don't think cap was really a consideration here.

I think McLeod was probably the 6th or 7th option and he had to pay through the nose because he whiffed on every other player he wanted. These types of centers are typically available at the deadline for a 2nd/3rd round pick...and during the offseason, less than that, especially if its a meh contract in a tight year.

And if anything, we probably didn't want another young forward....you probably want a veteran 3C given the makeup of our team currently.

But...Buffalo has needed a good defensive two way C since Adams became the GM. They've needed one since RoR got traded. He certainly has had an opportunity to get one previously, especially considering he could have taken on a meh contract and had more draft capital than you could realistically ever use (but he did). The fact that the only attempts to solve the issue were Eakin and Jost in 4 years....just a bad job of identifying and addressing needs by the front office as a whole.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Making the team and making his mark come December after injuries like you said are two different things. Depends on the person hurt and their position I reckon...

If I were to guess, he has fewer than 10 NHL games this year.

 

[Irie]

I mean, Wennberg was available for just a contract, and he has shown more offensive production.

Considering we are what, 8M under the cap after projected contracts for UPL and Malenstyn, I don't think cap was really a consideration here.

I think McLeod was probably the 6th or 7th option and he had to pay through the nose because he whiffed on every other player he wanted. These types of centers are typically available at the deadline for a 2nd/3rd round pick...and during the offseason, less than that, especially if its a meh contract in a tight year.

And if anything, we probably didn't want another young forward....you probably want a veteran 3C given the makeup of our team currently.

But...Buffalo has needed a good defensive two way C since Adams became the GM. They've needed one since RoR got traded. He certainly has had an opportunity to get one previously, especially considering he could have taken on a meh contract and had more draft capital than you could realistically ever use (but he did). The fact that the only attempts to solve the issue were Eakin and Jost in 4 years....just a bad job of identifying and addressing needs by the front office as a whole.

As someone that has watched close to 90% of Wennberg's games over the past three seasons, I can say with confidence that there is not any offensive upside there. He was getting huge minutes on Seattle's top two lines, and 5M for him would be a huge mistake.

Buffalo is still Buffalo. Desirable UFAs do not come to small markets like Buffalo without huge overpays.

The choices are crappy, either way. Do you give up a valuable prospect for a young, cost controlled player that fills a need? Or do you throw seven years and huge dollars at aging players to fill your team's need the way Francis and Botts just did with Stephenson?

If Adams had overpaid with a long-term overpriced contract instead of trading for McLeod, the same posters whining about the trade would be whining about the terrible contract.

The best solution is drafting for need once in a while with second round picks, or having a good pro scouting department that can identify guys like Gourde who are in their mid 20s and unsigned and playing in the minors.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Overpaying a mil or two per year for a free asset >>> giving up an elite prospect for a low ceiling player

 

[Chainshot]

As someone that has watched close to 90% of Wennberg's games over the past three seasons, I can say with confidence that there is not any offensive upside there. He was getting huge minutes on Seattle's top two lines, and 5M for him would be a huge mistake.

Agreed. That guy was disappointing in CBus and just sort of there in Seattle.

Buffalo is still Buffalo. Desirable UFAs do not come to small markets like Buffalo without huge overpays.

The choices are crappy, either way. Do you give up a valuable prospect for a young, cost controlled player that fills a need? Or do you throw seven years and huge dollars at aging players to fill your team's need the way Francis and Botts just did with Stephenson?

Agreed. The dealt from a surplus to address a transition player need.

If Adams had overpaid with a long-term overpriced contract instead of trading for McLeod, the same posters whining about the trade would be whining about the terrible contract.

You know it.

The best solution is drafting for need once in a while with second round picks, or having a good pro scouting department that can identify guys like Gourde who are in their mid 20s and unsigned and playing in the minors.

Interestingly, they were the 2nd team in on Gourde when he signed as a UDFA back in the day, per Bakes. One thing that is problematic right now is that those sort of doggedly hard working players coming in on UDFA type deals have no path forward in this organization with the glut of small, skill guys up the development lineup. Adams has shown preferences for his draftees, they will be hard pressed to find an agent/advisor who is going to suggest their client signs into the Sabres organization because the development cycles just aren't there. They put precedence on their own picks from what they have shown thus far.

 

[Zach716]

The idea that the cost to acquire a solid, young 3C on a good contract would be cheaper if acquired sooner makes zero sense to me.

Guys like McLeod are never going to be shopped or available from their respective teams. If you want to acquire one, you are going to always have to pay through the nose.

The fault in Adam's plan isn't in the trade cost, it is in spending half a dozen high picks on small, homogeneous offensive players and not using any of those picks on guys of McLeod's ilk.

I think the issue people have is that it's not really quite clear he is this can't miss great young 3C. Tons of Oilers fan comments suggest he doesn't engage physically, played better on the wing, and some were even ready to move on from him (though I think part of this was just from feelings still hurt from a specific play during the SCF).

Would feel a lot more at ease if he was a guaranteed can't miss perfect 3C type given the price.

 

[Chainshot]

I think the issue people have is that it's not really quite clear he is this can't miss great young 3C. Tons of Oilers fan comments suggest he doesn't engage physically, played better on the wing, and some were even ready to move on from him (though I think part of this was just from feelings still hurt from a specific play during the SCF).

Would feel a lot more at ease if he was a guaranteed can't miss perfect 3C type given the price.

Yeah, it's valid that the criticism should give one pause. It's not like the Sabres pro scouting folks have knocked it out of the park much at all for the entirety of this drought. And also that they haven't seemed to ever have good utilization once someone arrives so someone breaks through as better than advertised. Hopefully with a new HC that happens, but with so many returning staff... *shrug*

As for a can't miss 3C, no teams are moving those. They either developed them internally or what we look at as a 3C *cough* Cirelli *cough* is actually their 2C.

 

[zenthusiast]

simply keep mittelstadt and you have your 3C in cozens

 

[StrompTroller]

Yeah, it's valid that the criticism should give one pause. It's not like the Sabres pro scouting folks have knocked it out of the park much at all for the entirety of this drought. And also that they haven't seemed to ever have good utilization once someone arrives so someone breaks through as better than advertised. Hopefully with a new HC that happens, but with so many returning staff... *shrug*

As for a can't miss 3C, no teams are moving those. They either developed them internally or what we look at as a 3C *cough* Cirelli *cough* is actually their 2C.

If you're gonna overpay which we did....then do it right and overpay for the superior player.

Also your cough is disingenuous, the reasoning for Cirelli being potentially available was because Tampa needed money to keep Stamkos a lifer (and hell keep Sergachev at that). Oh and potentially replenish a barren pipeline of prospects. I give them credit for the pivot they figured out and not committing to Stamkos longish term, but the logic was there...you can't look back after the dust has settled and sneeze or cough at the idea....

To echo what some above me has said Adams gets no marks of being unable to reasonably obtain a viable 3c when he's drafted literally everything but THAT. If you have a glaring whole in your roster or pipeline thats when you draft for it especially with later picks. Obviously with your 1st BPA is a viable choice but we've pissed away later round picks like it was nothing if we miss, and NOW WE ARE PISSING AWAY HIGHER ROUND PICKS like its nothing because we suck so much and draft so high and people are flippant about it.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I think the issue people have is that it's not really quite clear he is this can't miss great young 3C. Tons of Oilers fan comments suggest he doesn't engage physically, played better on the wing, and some were even ready to move on from him (though I think part of this was just from feelings still hurt from a specific play during the SCF).

Would feel a lot more at ease if he was a guaranteed can't miss perfect 3C type given the price.

Yeah, posters should be prepared that McLeod is not going to be a rock 3C. He's going to use speed to disrupt plays but not be physical at all, not add much offensively, and possibly be a good 4C playing up a line because there just wasn't a better option by the time KA secured this trade. Despite McLeod's weaknesses, he's still a much better option than Krebs, and KA had to make this move simply because of how terrible the alternative was.

simply keep mittelstadt and you have your 3C in cozens

It's head slapping to me what a near perfect situation they had at C, to what they now have scrapped together. Helenius/Ostlund can make that C depth just as good or better, but the wait of another 2-4 years for either of those guys to reach potential is quite frustrating.

If you're gonna overpay which we did....then do it right and overpay for the superior player.

Also your cough is disingenuous, the reasoning for Cirelli being potentially available was because Tampa needed money to keep Stamkos a lifer (and hell keep Sergachev at that). Oh and potentially replenish a barren pipeline of prospects. I give them credit for the pivot they figured out and not committing to Stamkos longish term, but the logic was there...you can't look back after the dust has settled and sneeze or cough at the idea....

To echo what some above me has said Adams gets no marks of being unable to reasonably obtain a viable 3c when he's drafted literally everything but THAT. If you have a glaring whole in your roster or pipeline thats when you draft for it especially with later picks. Obviously with your 1st BPA is a viable choice but we've pissed away later round picks like it was nothing if we miss, and NOW WE ARE PISSING AWAY HIGHER ROUND PICKS like its nothing because we suck so much and draft so high and people are flippant about it.

In fairness, KA had a decent situation at C when they drafted Savoie/Ostlund/Kulich. But then it changed in March. OTOH, by March they probably realized Savoie wasn't projecting out to what they hoped, Ostlund would still take time to physically develop even though he still looks like a keeper, and that Kulich is a project at C if they do in fact keep trying to force him there. I think their assessments on their own guys are off a bit, so even though the drafting of a 3C type guy wasn't necessary at the time (although I suspect/hope they wanted Kasper when they ended up with Savoie), KA ended up making it seem/look more necessary by making a trade that dug a hole at C, later filling it back halfway with McLeod.

Ideally, Cozens would be a very good 3C with another year or so under a real HC. Then when/if a guy like Helenius or Ostlund prove themselves, one of TT/Mitts/Cozens could be traded from a position of strength, instead of patching a glaring hole with an overpayment.

 

[StrompTroller]

Yeah, posters should be prepared that McLeod is not going to be a rock 3C. He's going to use speed to disrupt plays but not be physical at all, not add much offensively, and possibly be a good 4C playing up a line because there just wasn't a better option by the time KA secured this trade. Despite McLeod's weaknesses, he's still a much better option than Krebs, and KA had to make this move simply because of how terrible the alternative was.

It's head slapping to me what a near perfect situation they had at C, to what they now have scrapped together. Helenius/Ostlund can make that C depth just as good or better, but the wait of another 2-4 years for either of those guys to reach potential is quite frustrating.

In fairness, KA had a decent situation at C when they drafted Savoie/Ostlund/Kulich. But then it changed in March. OTOH, by March they probably realized Savoie wasn't projecting out to what they hoped, Ostlund would still take time to physically develop even though he still looks like a keeper, and that Kulich is a project at C if they do in fact keep trying to force him there. I think their assessments on their own guys are off a bit, so even though the drafting of a 3C type guy wasn't necessary at the time (although I suspect/hope they wanted Kasper when they ended up with Savoie), KA ended up making it seem/look more necessary by making a trade that dug a hole at C, later filling it back halfway with McLeod.

Ideally, Cozens would be a very good 3C with another year or so under a real HC. Then when/if a guy like Helenius or Ostlund prove themselves, one of TT/Mitts/Cozens could be traded from a position of strength, instead of patching a glaring hole with an overpayment.

None of which ever really projected to be a strong 2way center....I achoknwledge you said he probably wanted Kasper who would be that prospect/project but we didn't get him and still did nothing but send Jost's kids to a full ride of college for no reason lol

 

[TehDoak]

As someone that has watched close to 90% of Wennberg's games over the past three seasons, I can say with confidence that there is not any offensive upside there. He was getting huge minutes on Seattle's top two lines, and 5M for him would be a huge mistake.

Right, but, he's being compared to someone with a career high of 30 pts. McLeod's defensive impacts are about the same as Wennbergs. Wennberg isn't some offensive juggernaut but neither is McLeod. I'd take Wennberg for 2 years at the cost of just a contract vs McLeod at the cost of Savoie.

Buffalo is still Buffalo. Desirable UFAs do not come to small markets like Buffalo without huge overpays.

The choices are crappy, either way. Do you give up a valuable prospect for a young, cost controlled player that fills a need? Or do you throw seven years and huge dollars at aging players to fill your team's need the way Francis and Botts just did with Stephenson?

If Adams had overpaid with a long-term overpriced contract instead of trading for McLeod, the same posters whining about the trade would be whining about the terrible contract.

The best solution is drafting for need once in a while with second round picks, or having a good pro scouting department that can identify guys like Gourde who are in their mid 20s and unsigned and playing in the minors.

You can play the 'no one wants to play in Buffalo card' in a specific offseason, sure.

However, the need for a two way center has been here Adams entire career and he's never truly attempted to solve it. Plenty of good defensive centers have been moved since Adams has become a GM...for much less than a former top 10 pick.

The reason he had to overpay now is he lost the game of musical chairs this summer and inaction previous summers. All the decent two way centers signed elsewhere and he couldn't make inroads with any of his other trade targets.

He had plenty of cap space and trade assets to solve this issue and did nothing for 3 straight offseasons, even though it was an obvious need.

In the end, he filled a need with a desperate overpay because he ignored the same need for years.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Right, but, he's being compared to someone with a career high of 30 pts. McLeod's defensive impacts are about the same as Wennbergs. Wennberg isn't some offensive juggernaut but neither is McLeod. I'd take Wennberg for 2 years at the cost of just a contract vs McLeod at the cost of Savoie.



You can play the 'no one wants to play in Buffalo card' in a specific offseason, sure.

However, the need for a two way center has been here Adams entire career and he's never truly attempted to solve it. Plenty of good defensive centers have been moved since Adams has become a GM...for much less than a former top 10 pick.

The reason he had to overpay now is he lost the game of musical chairs this summer and inaction previous summers. All the decent two way centers signed elsewhere and he couldn't make inroads with any of his other trade targets.

He had plenty of cap space and trade assets to solve this issue and did nothing for 3 straight offseasons, even though it was an obvious need.

In the end, he filled a need with a desperate overpay because he ignored the same need for years.

For 3 straight off-seasons he repeatedly stated he wasn't going to sign UFAs to block prospects. Hence signing tweeners and low tier UFAs that were professional and wouldn't complain if stashed in the press box. Last off-season, he went damn our offense can score at will, we just need a tweak to tighten up the D so signed Clifton and Johnson. This off-season he said he wanted to remake the bottom 6 and become tougher to play against, which he did.

I realize you hate Adams but he's not exactly duplicitous outside of typical GM speak when it comes to actions matching words

 

[Chainshot]

If you're gonna overpay which we did....then do it right and overpay for the superior player.

Also your cough is disingenuous, the reasoning for Cirelli being potentially available was because Tampa needed money to keep Stamkos a lifer (and hell keep Sergachev at that). Oh and potentially replenish a barren pipeline of prospects. I give them credit for the pivot they figured out and not committing to Stamkos longish term, but the logic was there...you can't look back after the dust has settled and sneeze or cough at the idea....

To echo what some above me has said Adams gets no marks of being unable to reasonably obtain a viable 3c when he's drafted literally everything but THAT. If you have a glaring whole in your roster or pipeline thats when you draft for it especially with later picks. Obviously with your 1st BPA is a viable choice but we've pissed away later round picks like it was nothing if we miss, and NOW WE ARE PISSING AWAY HIGHER ROUND PICKS like its nothing because we suck so much and draft so high and people are flippant about it.

The cough was because everybody and their brother was obsessed with Cirelli as the guy that they should target. And legitimately he is the Lightning 2C.

He remains perfect in regarding he would cure a lot of what else this team, but now that opportunity is no longer there. Tampa saw the benefit of keeping the younger depth player over the aging one dimensional former star.

 

[Blowfish]

Any rumours or confirmation Buffalo prospects challenge. I did see they may try and bump to August. Giving college players a chance to play.

 

[Chainshot]

Any rumours or confirmation Buffalo prospects challenge. I did see they may try and bump to August. Giving college players a chance to play.

LECOM Harborcenter has a block of days from Sept. 12th-16th booked by the Sabres so that seems like the timing of it. Don't know who all will be there yet though:

HARBORCENTER - Online Booking

HARBORCENTER online ice booking and sports facility scheduling software, allows you to book your rink rentals, gyms, meeting rooms and soccer fields online.

www.rectimes.app

 

[HaNotsri]

simply keep mittelstadt and you have your 3C in cozens

Yeah, I know some think they needed to make a move for a top 4 d but is Byram really a fit in our top 4?

 

[Dreakon13]

Given the change in coaching and mindset/identity in the bottom 6, I'm kinda more interested in the devil I don't know versus pushing Cozens down to 3C and seeing what happens.

That being said, if I had a choice I think I would've rather traded Cozens over Mitts. Have Mitts be the 2C, still go after a McLeod type. I don't entirely understand where Cozens ceiling is supposed to be (not in terms of roster construction but just what type of player he excels as). You could always see flashes with Mitts, but either Cozens doesn't have those flashes or they're so subtle my dumb hockey brain can't follow it lol

 

[Der Jaeger]

Sometimes the baseline ideas in hockey are more important than just acquiring talent in terms of roster construction. Sometimes it’s reversed. Adams was in talent acquisition mode until this off-season, and now he’s switched. I think that both are needed but the time to switch is important.

Imagine Adams decided that he was building a defense and center out type organization in 2020 right after the season ends. He encourages his scouts to comes off Marco Rossi and instead take Anton Lindell in 2020. He defies draft experts and takes Matt Beniers instead of Owen Power in 2021. Both those two players are 200 foot centers in the classic Bruins mold.

Let’s take a look at the team, assuming no other or different moves are made:

Peterka - Thompson - Tuch
Benson - Beniers - Cozens
McLeod - Lundell - Greenway
Malenstyn - Lafferty - Zucker
NAK, Krebs

Dahlin - Jokiharju
Byrum - Samuelsson
Bryson - Clifton
Gilbert

UPL, Reimers

I’m not outlining this to trash Power or Quinn. Just to show that shifting from raw talent acquisition to purposely building a particular type of roster, and the timing of the switch, matters.

 

[BFLO]

For 3 straight off-seasons he repeatedly stated he wasn't going to sign UFAs to block prospects. Hence signing tweeners and low tier UFAs that were professional and wouldn't complain if stashed in the press box. Last off-season, he went damn our offense can score at will, we just need a tweak to tighten up the D so signed Clifton and Johnson. This off-season he said he wanted to remake the bottom 6 and become tougher to play against, which he did.

I realize you hate Adams but he's not exactly duplicitous outside of typical GM speak when it comes to actions matching words

Just because Adams told us what he was going to do doesn't mean we can't criticize him for it, or point out what we think he should have done differently.

 

[BUCKSHOT]

Given the change in coaching and mindset/identity in the bottom 6, I'm kinda more interested in the devil I don't know versus pushing Cozens down to 3C and seeing what happens.

That being said, if I had a choice I think I would've rather traded Cozens over Mitts. Have Mitts be the 2C, still go after a McLeod type. I don't entirely understand where Cozens ceiling is supposed to be (not in terms of roster construction but just what type of player he excels as). You could always see flashes with Mitts, but either Cozens doesn't have those flashes or they're so subtle my dumb hockey brain can't follow it lol

Mitts is softer than butter, they won't work in the playoffs.

Cozens is only 23, plenty of time to get 'better'