Vasilevsky looks like an average goalie since their last visit to the finals in 2022.
The Rise And Fall Of Mike Sullivan...
- Thread starter DitchMarner
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This team has sucked ass since 2019.
They've changed players, goalies, GMs, Presidents.......Sullivan should have been gone long ago.
kerrabria
Registered User
- May 3, 2018
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People are shitting way too hard on the roster. Crosby is the sixth best center in the league. Malkin is still a 1C. Eller has been great, and Hayes is a luxury at 4C. They don’t have any elite wingers, but they have a decent stable to compliment their center depth. The D is very poorly constructed, but overall it’s par for the league. Jarry sucks but they’ve been getting okay goaltending from others.
Sullivan should be getting more out of them.
Sullivan should be getting more out of them.
HockeyVirus
Woll stan.
- Nov 15, 2020
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Honest question, is there a coach in the league who is taking that roster and making them a playoff team this year? It's core is almost all 35+ and they have no goaltending, barely any defense who can both move the puck and defend with consistency, or depth scoring.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Jeune Poulet
Registered User
- Oct 31, 2019
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The roster had issues before Dubas got there.
Crosby is a special player and as long as he is plays well, whoever is GM will be mandated to keep the competitive but that's a tall order when you've drafted low for 16 years in a row, are in a salary cap league and your core players are 37, 38 years old.
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
At the end of the day this is the answer IMO, no coach should be lasting this long regardless.. It's been 2 seasons of missing the playoffs and another 3 of not passing the 1st round previously, we changed a few GMS and even ownership, he needs to go and a fresh start is needed for the players and the younger ones that will be here going forward.
Stickpucker
Playmaka
- Jan 18, 2014
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He wants to play a fast up tempo game but the GM gives him a bunch of old and slow players.
He's a great coach to have for the way the game is played today but wasted in Pittsburgh.
He has a middle of the pack roster and he gets middle of the pack results. Not bad since the roster isn't suited for his system.
From the outside it looks like Pittsburgh is talking out of both sides of their mouth. Crosby and Malkin need to retire as Pens and try and get another kick at the can now matter how bad the odds. Then they're angry that a middling roster gets middling results.
All the meanwhile younger teams will continue to improve and gain on or surpass them making it harder and harder to compete with the current roster.
Tdlr. Coach is good. Roster gets worse every year while teams around them get better.
He's a great coach to have for the way the game is played today but wasted in Pittsburgh.
He has a middle of the pack roster and he gets middle of the pack results. Not bad since the roster isn't suited for his system.
From the outside it looks like Pittsburgh is talking out of both sides of their mouth. Crosby and Malkin need to retire as Pens and try and get another kick at the can now matter how bad the odds. Then they're angry that a middling roster gets middling results.
All the meanwhile younger teams will continue to improve and gain on or surpass them making it harder and harder to compete with the current roster.
Tdlr. Coach is good. Roster gets worse every year while teams around them get better.
crab
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- Jan 26, 2019
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The only thing decent are the centers. But they are old and can’t carry the team anymore. The rest of the roster is abysmal.
- Jun 22, 2018
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Idk what you want him to do when management won’t face reality and accept that it’s over
sonic92
Registered User
sr edler
gold is not reality
- Mar 20, 2010
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SomeDude
Registered User
To sum it up, he’s well past his expiration date with the Pens. He’s been told he’s amazing for too long by too many people and he refused to adapt his speed based system to the roster and aging core. The results are a terrible on ice product that requires one or both of Sid and Malkin going into hero mode in order to win.
If he went to a younger team with actual speed, he’d probably do fine. He and the organization are just too stubborn/stupid to see this relationship has run its course.
If he went to a younger team with actual speed, he’d probably do fine. He and the organization are just too stubborn/stupid to see this relationship has run its course.
Rodgerwilco
Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
- Feb 6, 2014
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With Sullivan it's pretty straight forward, I think. There's no big mystery why he performed so well, and is now faltering.
He had a lot of success with his promotion from Wlkes-Barre when he could bring in his new system ideas. But something that helped him is that he also brought along a lot of players with him from WB which allowed him to have a handful of talented young players he was familiar with and that knew his system. Adding these key players into the already strong roster, and smart acquisitions of the Penguins and it's a no-brainer why he had so much success.
Sullivan is still a good coach, but I think he has just never done a great job of adapting to changes in the league. As many have said, the Penguins management hasn't been great for some time now as well, which really hasn't helped matters. There are plenty of great coaches who simply just get stale when they stay on one team for a long time. Nothing wrong with that at all.
As some others have pointed out as well, Sully appears to be a rather stubborn coach. He really wants to stick to his guns and almost force it to work. No wonder "stick-to-it-iveness" is one of his trademark words lol.
He had a lot of success with his promotion from Wlkes-Barre when he could bring in his new system ideas. But something that helped him is that he also brought along a lot of players with him from WB which allowed him to have a handful of talented young players he was familiar with and that knew his system. Adding these key players into the already strong roster, and smart acquisitions of the Penguins and it's a no-brainer why he had so much success.
Sullivan is still a good coach, but I think he has just never done a great job of adapting to changes in the league. As many have said, the Penguins management hasn't been great for some time now as well, which really hasn't helped matters. There are plenty of great coaches who simply just get stale when they stay on one team for a long time. Nothing wrong with that at all.
As some others have pointed out as well, Sully appears to be a rather stubborn coach. He really wants to stick to his guns and almost force it to work. No wonder "stick-to-it-iveness" is one of his trademark words lol.
I want this on my headstone lol.
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
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People praising/defending Sullivan in this thread remind me of the people praising/defending Dan Bylsma about a decade ago when Pens fans said Bylsma sucked and should be fired and outside fans talked about how Bylsma was great and we were just entitled.
Just don't give me those shocked Pikachu faces when he DOES leave Pittsburgh and goes on to mirror Bylsma's performance in Buffalo.
Just don't give me those shocked Pikachu faces when he DOES leave Pittsburgh and goes on to mirror Bylsma's performance in Buffalo.
A good coach adjusts to what he has to work with, and puts his players in the best position to succeed. I forget the poster but on page 1 he gave a long, detailed analysis of Sullivan's shortcomings, and that is just on this season.
This is the guy who has "coached" Erik Karlsson from being a 100 point defenseman(1st in 30 years) to looking lost. I'm not saying he would have gotten 100 points, but there is no way on his own Karlsson has forgotten how to play hockey. His handling of Ian Cole, Daniel Sprong, and a number of other players is disgusting. Jared McCann was let go because he apparently couldn't play.
This team was not a cup contender last year, but there is no way that roster should not have made the playoffs. Unless you do what Sullivan did with it.
Sullivan manages to make the roster produce results that are less than the sum of its parts.
The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
Rodgerwilco
Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
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In regards to Erik Karlsson I think his position as SJ's undisputed top player and then trying to assimilate into a different system who already had 3 superstars hurt him. But I will agree that Sullivan certainly could have done better. Given how abysmal the PP was, that was also limiting EK's scoring opportunity.
I agree about Cole, Sprong, and McCann (among others). That's what I was alluding to when I was talking about being stubborn. When he gets a certain idea or attitude in his head about a player it seems like thats the end-all for him.
As it's been said, he has just never adapted his system to the roster he has. I was a major Sullivan stan for a long time, but I think probably around the 2021 season I was off that train.
Look at guys like McCann and Mathenson. As soon as they got away from Sully they became better players.
If you watch the games there are certainly situations like against the Rangers where they’re obviously not on the same level talent wise, but most games it comes down to an absolute lack of discipline defensively.
If you watch the games there are certainly situations like against the Rangers where they’re obviously not on the same level talent wise, but most games it comes down to an absolute lack of discipline defensively.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
I'd argue the issue in Pittsburgh isn't Sullivan's coaching, its the roster made up of retirement home residents and a front office who's grand plan in the offseason is add more old washed up players
kerrabria
Registered User
- May 3, 2018
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They basically have an army of middle six wingers and middle pair defensemen. But they also have great diversity of play styles and tools among those wings and dmen, so a coach should be able to find a lineup and system that works.
Malkin literally lead the league in takeaways last season. Crosby also has plenty of stats (plus the eye test) to show how effective he is without the puck.
kerrabria
Registered User
- May 3, 2018
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The players over age 30 are the following:
- Malkin (38) still a dynamic 1C
- Crosby (37) still an elite 1C
- Letang (37) still a top pair dman, but miscast for his more defensive role at EV, and he's always been shit on the PP
- Eller (35) doing a great job as 3C
- Karlsson (34) still offensively elite, but we know he's not a guy you win with as part of your core
- Acciari (33) good option for a fourth liner
- Hayes (32) great option for a fourth liner
- Rust (32) coming off one of his most productive seasons yet
- Rakell (31) should still be good for 20+ goals
- Grzelcyk (31) looks pretty good so far
Age really isn't the problem. The team is underperforming relative to talent.
Headshot77
Bad Photoshopper
the NHL has a culture that chews through coaches. The NFL is so complex that you need to stick with a coach for a while because there's a huge playbook. The NHL is comparatively simple. Smart hockey people can jump in mid-season and implement a system. They can fly the plane while they are building it. As such, it's *weird* for a head coach to last more than 5 years in the NHL before they get "stale".
Nothing happened to Mike Sullivan other than his expiration date passing. Honestly probably back in 2020.
Nothing happened to Mike Sullivan other than his expiration date passing. Honestly probably back in 2020.
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