The Rebuild Started...

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You know, when the authority you reference is an outspoken critic of Canucks management, it doesn't exactly come across as an endorsement of Linden and Benning. He's a critic of them for good reason.

Yes, the Canucks are bound for an upswing at some point. As others have pointed out, when you've hit rock bottom, the only way left to go is up. Escaping the bottom 10 would count as an "upswing"... it doesn't suddenly mean the Lindenning are the least bit competent.

Hell, it's hard not to improve when you've got multiple years drafting near the top of each round.

The authority I referenced definitely endorses our prospects ,and the coaching hire...He likes Benning in June,not so much in July.

For every good move on the ascent that the Canucks make,I'm fully prepared to hear a litany of reasons how the management bumbled their way through it...No surprise there.

There's a lot of teams that have spent an eternity picking at the top of the draft,and not improving...CBJ,ARI,WIN,NYI..We've been pretty fortunate to have had some good hockey the last 20 years.

 

[y2kcanucks]

The authority I referenced definitely endorses our prospects ,and the coaching hire...He likes Benning in June,not so much in July.

For every good move on the ascent that the Canucks make,I'm fully prepared to hear a litany of reasons how the management bumbled their way through it...No surprise there.

There's a lot of teams that have spent an eternity picking at the top of the draft,and not improving...CBJ,ARI,WIN,NYI..We've been pretty fortunate to have had some good hockey the last 20 years.

What happened in the last 20 years has nothing to do with Benning not rebuilding today.

 

[DL44]

Well... at least he's turning over Utica this year.

 

[Seattle Totems]

I would not call Ray Ferraro a vocal critic of the Canucks. I like his analysis more than anyone in the business, but he definitely seems to hold back with Vancouver. This is a former affiliate and he's a local analyst. He's not going to burn bridges. His critique of Benning over free agency sounded strangely to me like he didnt want Jim to put him in a corner. Ray really didn't want Benning to do screw up free agency. Of course this is intuition but I dont think Ferraro is exactly endorsing Benning despite being positive with some moves. Its still possible to positive if we're cherry picking.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The authority I referenced definitely endorses our prospects ,and the coaching hire...He likes Benning in June,not so much in July.

Actually, Ferraro is not a fan of what this regime is doing overall. He sees that even with their high drafts, they are not focused on what needs to be done for a rebuild. Here's some proof referencing that same authority:

Ferraro has consistently critiqued Vancouver’s inability to see their best days are down the road

Right in this article referring to VAN as a "rudderless ship":

Canucks lack direction under Linden and Benning

Now I'm going to take it that since you referenced this authority with a point about liking VAN's prospects, you will also accept that this same authority has been critical of VAN's management practices regarding a rebuild as well?

 

[Pavel96]

I do find it funny how he uses the term "incredible" and acts like that's a fact. How does one define an "incredible" prospect? Is that McDavid level? Matthews level? If not, how do you label that level of prospects?

Ironically enough google defines incredible as "impossible to believe". So to say , "The Canucks have amassed some incredible talent..fact." is incredible in itself.

But hey, doesn't matter what the word actually means - it sounds good. Then make sure to write 'fact' after it and you win. Whatever fits the narrative.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Ironically enough google defines incredible as "impossible to believe". So to say , "The Canucks have amassed some incredible talent..fact." is incredible in itself.

But hey, doesn't matter what the word actually means - it sounds good. Then make sure to write 'fact' after it and you win. Whatever fits the narrative.

I'm waiting for him to work "bigly!" into a season prediction.

And if the Canucks have amassed some incredible talent, just imagine how blown his mind must be if he checks out some other teams' prospect pools.

 

[Canucks1096]

Lol okay then. You can think this is a rebuild all you want. You're wrong, but you think that. I posted a few pages ago why this isn't a rebuild. Here's my post:



You're more than welcome to wrongfully think they've been rebuilding by signing veterans to long-term contracts, and by trading away draft picks and neglecting to acquire any. You can make up excuses for them not trading Hamhuis all you want. This is not a rebuild. Most competent teams get younger even when competing, and in fact those competitive teams do a much better job of implementing youth into their lineup than the Canucks have, yet you say the Canucks are rebuilding? Get out of here with that joke ass bull****.

They bring in Vets because they still need a full roster. You don't dress under 18 skaters in a game and you don't play prospects that are not ready.

Tell me. The Last 4 years which young player was ready and didn't get a chance because all the spots went to a Vet?

Fyi Canucks traded Lack for a 3rd round pick in 2016 and use it to draft Brisebois.

Since 2015 Canucks had never traded a pick for Vets before as well.

Hansen and Burrows probably could of got picks but they wanted prospects instead.

It takes two to tango. Actually a lot times it takes three to tango the 2 gms and the player that has a ntc. It's Benning fault that Edler won't waive ntc? It's Benning fault Hamhuis and Vrabta only gave a couple teams to get traded too? It's Benning fault that Sedins want to retire as Canucks? It's Benning fault that nobody wants Higgins and Weber. Its like what Torts said the team was stale. You expect all these stale players to get great return?

It's it so clear that pretty much every Gillis player Benning wanted to move for a pick/prospect.

Tell me which Vets player they could kf traded for a picks but didn't?

To say the rebuild didnt start yet is so ridiculous. You are a new to young core, that is still a rebuild.

 

[Canucks1096]

I honestly don't care what the media says. I'm looking at the facts, and as I have stated earlier in this thread the facts do not support that the Canucks are currently in a rebuild. Furthermore, based on what Benning has done and based on his job performance, the facts do not support the idea that the Canucks have a bright future.

Edmonton, for example, had a better prospect pool than the Canucks by virtue of all their 1st overall picks. That prospect pool didn't help them. They could not overcome the incompetence of their management team. But hey, they had a great prospect pool so I suppose they must have won a Cup recently, right?

Facts. You even agreed that people should use facts more often in their arguments, yet you continue to ignore them.

The drafting for the Oilers was horrible. That's one of the reason why it took so long for them to rebuild. They pretty got no solid nhl players outside of the 1st round pick

 

[Kryten]

The drafting for the Oilers was horrible. That's one of the reason why it took so long for them to rebuild. They pretty got no solid nhl players outside of the 1st round pick

Add in bad trades, not desireable to UFAs, signed a has been to 6m with term, old boys club. Wait a minute

 

[RandV]

What are you're expectations..?..The Canucks making the playoffs with a young core of players still won't suffice?...Or does it still mean they're a ****ty team regardless ?

Toronto Maple Leafs have been bounced out of the first round in consecutive years..bubble team,must be..are they doing a good job?...

So what should the expectations be? Under Burke/Nonis, fans grumbled a bit but generally accepted that it was hard getting past the 2nd round. Onto Gillis who quickly set the bar now lower than a Stanley Cup championship such that fans were calling for his head following after losing in the 1st round back to back years following the game 7 loss. Now with Benning, it seems like a lot of fans are ready to unfurl the "Mission Accomplished!" banner after the mere act of making the playoffs, never mind how good the team actually is or what sort of chance we actually have to win.

There are plenty of examples to compare against. At the top you have a team like Chicago that came out of a rebuild and won 3 Cups. You have teams like Philly who are generally good but are never a threat come playoff time. Then teams like the Islanders who after 5 years of rebuilding make the playoffs 3/4 years peaking with a 2nd round appearance then get bounced back to the basement.

So again it depends on what the priority is. Are we really assembling enough talent to compete head to head against the best in the league and become a Chicago? Because becoming a Garth Snow like team would be a huge step up from where we currently are, but I'd hardly call it a job well done.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Actually, Ferraro is not a fan of what this regime is doing overall. He sees that even with their high drafts, they are not focused on what needs to be done for a rebuild. Here's some proof referencing that same authority:



Right in this article referring to VAN as a "rudderless ship":

Canucks lack direction under Linden and Benning

Now I'm going to take it that since you referenced this authority with a point about liking VAN's prospects, you will also accept that this same authority has been critical of VAN's management practices regarding a rebuild as well?

I did say that Ferraro has been a critic of the management in post #305...

Ray has changed his stance completely seems to me...Listen to the very end of the interview,the rest is league wide stuff..
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-...ood-plan-rolling-don-t-mess-with-it-1.1126105

Even 'after' the UFA signings (which he didn't like),he was on TSN Trade deadline talking about the Canucks...He felt that the team is almost ready for an upswing 'out of the mud' he called it..He had glowing things to say about the young talent and the future of the team.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

They bring in Vets because they still need a full roster. You don't dress under 18 skaters in a game and you don't play prospects that are not ready.

Tell me. The Last 4 years which young player was ready and didn't get a chance because all the spots went to a Vet?

Fyi Canucks traded Lack for a 3rd round pick in 2016 and use it to draft Brisebois.

Since 2015 Canucks had never traded a pick for Vets before as well.

Hansen and Burrows probably could of got picks but they wanted prospects instead.

It takes two to tango. Actually a lot times it takes three to tango the 2 gms and the player that has a ntc. It's Benning fault that Edler won't waive ntc? It's Benning fault Hamhuis and Vrabta only gave a couple teams to get traded too? It's Benning fault that Sedins want to retire as Canucks? It's Benning fault that nobody wants Higgins and Weber. Its like what Torts said the team was stale. You expect all these stale players to get great return?

It's it so clear that pretty much every Gillis player Benning wanted to move for a pick/prospect.

Tell me which Vets player they could kf traded for a picks but didn't?

To say the rebuild didnt start yet is so ridiculous. You are a new to young core, that is still a rebuild.

Why are you talking like the only players that exist on this team came from Gillis or that Benning isn't every bit as fond of NTCs as the last guy? What could the team get for Beagle? Or Rousell? Or Sutter? And interestingly enough, Garrison's NTC didn't seem to matter very much. Benning was perfectly able to punt him out the door pretty damn fast when he got here, wasn't he? And what happened to the pick he got in return? Linden Vey.

Which is the problem. You're telling us there haven't been any prospects ready to go...uh, yeah. No shit. We keep losing chances for those picks to become anything in our system because Benning keeps firing draft picks out for luminaries like Vey, Pedan, Pouliot, you know what? It's all right here:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/jim-benning-era-transaction-summary.2225825/

Look for yourself how many draft picks were lost for nothing or needlessly downgraded. "It's Benning's fault nobody wants Weber"...uh...Benning wanted Weber. Much like Vanek, Vrbata, Bartkowski, Miller, etc etc etc, he was good enough for Benning to sign and put on the ice but somehow valueless when it came to getting anything meaningful in return.

This is why the rebuild hasn't started: Benning thought that Sutter, Gudbranson, Granlund, Baertschi, Vey and the rest of the players he's targeted were going to be the new core, not placeholders while they waited for drafted prospects to form a new young core. They're still not acquiring picks because they're still waiting for those players to blossom into the stars that a f***ing monkey could tell you they're never going to be. Because that's Benning's truly crushing flaw. He just can't spot talent. If he ever could before, he certainly can't now. A couple of fluke good picks in Boeser and Pettersson can't change that. It's why the team's probably going into the season with Sutter as the 2nd line C. It's why Granlund and Baertschi both got raises. It's why Gudbranson got term and money, and it's why we're going to spend interminable months watching them fail on the ice. It's why Horvat was slogging along buried in 4th line C duties while Sutter was paraded out on the 1st PP line as the Sedins' wing the first year he was here. Remember that?

A key plank in Benning and Linden's platform since they got here is that they couldn't build through the draft. Or didn't have time to build through the draft, or found a way around it, or however you want to put it. And they still haven't realized they've failed.

There is no new core of young players. There's Horvat and Boeser. After that there's a lot of crossed fingers and maybes. And the reason why is because the draft picks that could've been used to actually draft were needlessly lost on other teams' failed prospects and vets that everyone already knew weren't core players.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So what should the expectations be? Under Burke/Nonis, fans grumbled a bit but generally accepted that it was hard getting past the 2nd round. Onto Gillis who quickly set the bar now lower than a Stanley Cup championship such that fans were calling for his head following after losing in the 1st round back to back years following the game 7 loss. Now with Benning, it seems like a lot of fans are ready to unfurl the "Mission Accomplished!" banner after the mere act of making the playoffs, never mind how good the team actually is or what sort of chance we actually have to win.

There are plenty of examples to compare against. At the top you have a team like Chicago that came out of a rebuild and won 3 Cups. You have teams like Philly who are generally good but are never a threat come playoff time. Then teams like the Islanders who after 5 years of rebuilding make the playoffs 3/4 years peaking with a 2nd round appearance then get bounced back to the basement.

So again it depends on what the priority is. Are we really assembling enough talent to compete head to head against the best in the league and become a Chicago? Because becoming a Garth Snow like team would be a huge step up from where we currently are, but I'd hardly call it a job well done.

I think that if the team made the playoffs with this young core ,that would be a tremendous accomplishment..Its not that often that teams come right out of a rebuild into a SC ...The Hawks went through a 10 year period,making the playoffs only once in that time (yet fans here grumble about 3 years in the cellar),and hit the jackpot with Kane and Toews.

Right now,I think that you're putting the cart before the horse a bit..The Canucks are still in the process of accumulating talent,and a lot of these prospects haven't even played in the NHL yet..This season and next season will give us an idea of whether this team is going to be a future contender or pretender.

 

[Canucks1096]

Why are you talking like the only players that exist on this team came from Gillis or that Benning isn't every bit as fond of NTCs as the last guy? What could the team get for Beagle? Or Rousell? Or Sutter? And interestingly enough, Garrison's NTC didn't seem to matter very much. Benning was perfectly able to punt him out the door pretty damn fast when he got here, wasn't he? And what happened to the pick he got in return? Linden Vey.

Which is the problem. You're telling us there haven't been any prospects ready to go...uh, yeah. No ****. We keep losing chances for those picks to become anything in our system because Benning keeps firing draft picks out for luminaries like Vey, Pedan, Pouliot, you know what? It's all right here:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/jim-benning-era-transaction-summary.2225825/

Look for yourself how many draft picks were lost for nothing or needlessly downgraded. "It's Benning's fault nobody wants Weber"...uh...Benning wanted Weber. Much like Vanek, Vrbata, Bartkowski, Miller, etc etc etc, he was good enough for Benning to sign and put on the ice but somehow valueless when it came to getting anything meaningful in return.

This is why the rebuild hasn't started: Benning thought that Sutter, Gudbranson, Granlund, Baertschi, Vey and the rest of the players he's targeted were going to be the new core, not placeholders while they waited for drafted prospects to form a new young core. They're still not acquiring picks because they're still waiting for those players to blossom into the stars that a ****ing monkey could tell you they're never going to be. Because that's Benning's truly crushing flaw. He just can't spot talent. If he ever could before, he certainly can't now. A couple of fluke good picks in Boeser and Pettersson can't change that. It's why the team's probably going into the season with Sutter as the 2nd line C. It's why Granlund and Baertschi both got raises. It's why Gudbranson got term and money, and it's why we're going to spend interminable months watching them fail on the ice. It's why Horvat was slogging along buried in 4th line C duties while Sutter was paraded out on the 1st PP line as the Sedins' wing the first year he was here. Remember that?

A key plank in Benning and Linden's platform since they got here is that they couldn't build through the draft. Or didn't have time to build through the draft, or found a way around it, or however you want to put it. And they still haven't realized they've failed.

There is no new core of young players. There's Horvat and Boeser. After that there's a lot of crossed fingers and maybes. And the reason why is because the draft picks that could've been used to actually draft were needlessly lost on other teams' failed prospects and vets that everyone already knew weren't core players.

The reason why I am talking about Gillis players is because to get picks for players you need to trade something valuable. Benning inherited a few 1st line forwards A few top 6 to top 9 forwards. 4 or 5 top 4 D. Benning is building a new young core. You are not going to trade a way the young core that you are building for draft picks unless there are too many good young players. The players that Benning signs usually are stop gap players like Vanek Vrbata Miller Bartkowski, Weber (btw was a Gillis player) Gagner, MDZ. Stop gap players are not going to have much value but you still need those players to fill out the roster.

Btw Garrison wanted to go Flo or Tampa only and Yzerman wanted him. If a player has a ntc and the teams on that lists doesn't want that player. No matter how you try to spin it's not Benning fault.

Go back and find those forum. Those trades for Pouliot, Vey, Baer, half of people actually were ok with those trades. Now those trades fail, so many Canucks fan are acting like experts now

2014 to 2017 draft there are two players that are on roster that has nhl experience Boeser and Virtanen. So pretend if Benning didn't trade picks for Vey, Baer, Pedan, Pouliot, Larsen there would be 5 more picks. So maybe 1 more nhl player on the roster. So you are still going to need to sign fill out the roster.

Benning signing a bunch of Vets because the young players are not ready. I think this reason you guys think he is not rebuilding. Don't be fool by it. You still need players to play.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I did say that Ferraro has been a critic of the management in post #305...

Ray has changed his stance completely seems to me...Listen to the very end of the interview,the rest is league wide stuff..
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-...ood-plan-rolling-don-t-mess-with-it-1.1126105

Even 'after' the UFA signings (which he didn't like),he was on TSN Trade deadline talking about the Canucks...He felt that the team is almost ready for an upswing 'out of the mud' he called it..He had glowing things to say about the young talent and the future of the team.

I know you said that he has been a vocal critic of this management team, do you agree with his assertion? Or, are you picking and choosing which areas you agree with Ray, and which areas you disagree with Ray?

Also, I don't think he's changed his stance about the management team completely. In this very video, he states that their work last off season was poor. He says that they are finally on the road map, but doesn't delve into what that means. Finally, he panned the Beagle/Roussel signings in FA. I think there's a long way to go with Ray and Lindenning before one can say their viewpoints are aligned. A long way.

------------------------------

With all of this discussion about prospect pools, I'm curious as to how you are ranking each pool and what you think the differences actually are between them? Even the best writers are erratic in how they see franchise pipelines. Fans are no different. The Hockey Writers ranked VAN outside of the top-15 in 2016, then shifted them +10 spots up in 2017. Think about that shift. VAN leapfrogged a 3rd of the league after 1 draft. It's a point of caution.

 

[F A N]

So what should the expectations be? Under Burke/Nonis, fans grumbled a bit but generally accepted that it was hard getting past the 2nd round. Onto Gillis who quickly set the bar now lower than a Stanley Cup championship such that fans were calling for his head following after losing in the 1st round back to back years following the game 7 loss. Now with Benning, it seems like a lot of fans are ready to unfurl the "Mission Accomplished!" banner after the mere act of making the playoffs, never mind how good the team actually is or what sort of chance we actually have to win.

First off, all the GMs you referenced had supporters and detractors. At the end of the day, I think the expectations were different for each GM you referenced. Burke successfully turned the Canucks franchise around both on ice and financially. The complaint was his inability to add that extra top 6 player and solve the goaltending issue and his drafting comparatively to other teams in his era was not good. But give him a chance to acquire a Dman and he is usually money.

Nonis was a bit of a victim of circumstances. He inherited a playoff team that were expected to be contenders but the lockout resulted in the loss of guys like Chubarov, Malik, and inability to keep Sopel. The guys that Kesler drafted who weren't on the team were not ready to contribute significantly. Umberger was lost for basically nothing and Kesler was not good enough to replace Chubarov. A couple of bad moves and injuries to the blueline and he was trading 2nd and 3rd round picks to bolster the teams in the playoffs. He then made the Luongo trade and had AV trap their way to a playoff birth, which likely resulted in ownership pressuring Nonis to make the playoffs again the next season. Nonis' nickname was Nonuts which was kind of representative of what the fans thought of him at the time.

Gillis I think exceeded expectations and really made us feel that we have a modern forward thinking manager. Unlike Nonis, he inherited a team that weren't expected to be contenders but had some of Nonis' draft picks ready to contribute. The Sedins were also ready to step into the 1st line role. But then Gillis lost his way after the Cup run and didn't get a chance for a redo by the time he realized his mistakes. His poor drafting also caught up with him.

Benning's situation shared similarities with all 3 GMs. Like Burke, he inherited a team with a bare cupboard in terms of prospects and fans were accepting of a patient rebuild. Burke benefited from having young players who were ready to take over leadership of the team while Benning did not. Like Nonis and Gillis, Benning inherited a team that with at least with a few tweaks were expected to make the playoffs. Like Gillis, the team he inherited wasn't expected to be contenders. Like Nonis, fans quickly saw that the team needed to rebuild.

Regardless, the expectation was that Benning would be good at drafting. I think that is the main point of contention. I think Benning is the best drafting GM of the GMs mentioned overall, but at this point, it looks like he didn't make the best selection with his first pick in 2 drafts and he's traded quite a few picks away. Given our drafting history though, I still like Benning's drafts overall. I have said this from the beginning, if Benning's drafts can deliver the goods, his time here would turn out to be a good thing for the Canucks

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I think that if the team made the playoffs with this young core ,that would be a tremendous accomplishment..Its not that often that teams come right out of a rebuild into a SC ...The Hawks went through a 10 year period,making the playoffs only once in that time (yet fans here grumble about 3 years in the cellar),and hit the jackpot with Kane and Toews.

Right now,I think that you're putting the cart before the horse a bit..The Canucks are still in the process of accumulating talent,and a lot of these prospects haven't even played in the NHL yet..This season and next season will give us an idea of whether this team is going to be a future contender or pretender.

There is some concept of asset management that you do not seem to understand. The Canucks are not "Accumulating talent" they are leaking talent, leaking assets. They get a 10 dollar bill and turn it in to a fiver. They sign other teams 4th liners to long contracts instead of taking short term with too much dollar that they can then retain and trade for picks at the dead line.

Bill Wirtz era Chicago of is a great comparison to what we are doing right now. He too tried to cut corners instead of doing an actual rebuild and the results were similar to what we've had the last 3 years.

After Bill Wartz passed away, Rocky Wirtz:
- fired the current president and hired John McDonough from Cubs (MLB).
- brought in some dood called Scotty Bowman to advice.
- fired the former Blackhawk alumni Dennis Savard as head coach and promoted Joel Quenneville (who wasn't a former Blackhawk player.)
- when they gave jobs to Blackhawk almuni it was as "hockey ambassadors" , not front office jobs
- aquired extra picks, holding 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds in 2007 (you know.... a rebuild)

 

[Motte and Bailey]

that's a pretty good definition! Do you feel the Canucks have started that process? If so, when?

I think they were wanting to start it when Gillis was fired and when Linden was hired but I think it only started in earnest during the Summer of 2015

 

[Kryten]

I think they were wanting to start it when Gillis was fired and when Linden was hired but I think it only started in earnest during the Summer of 2015

So you earnestly think they started to rebuild the summer after they made the playoffs, trading Bonino for Sutter, letting Mathias and Richardson walk, a year before letting Hamhuis walk and signing Eriksson. This is when the rebuild started?

 

[pgj98m3]

I think they were wanting to start it when Gillis was fired and when Linden was hired but I think it only started in earnest during the Summer of 2015

Well then Benning has been the worst possible person for the job given his record....surely you will agree with that???

 

[Peter10]

I think they were wanting to start it when Gillis was fired and when Linden was hired but I think it only started in earnest during the Summer of 2015

They say " Critique the opinion, not the person", you surely make that a particular tough challenge at times.

 

[arttk]

If you actually Google Philip Larsen games. You will notice a bunch of games he was a healthy scratch which proves Stecher was playing ahead of Larsen. So your argument that Caucks play vets ahead of younger players and Stecher only played because of injuries is 100% wrong.

You are kind of changing the goal post a little. Before you said vets play ahead of young players. Now you are saying everyone plays ahead of Biega. That means young players do play ahead of Vets then.

I am not really changing the goal post, Biega is not an established NHLer in any way at all , ditto with larsen. These guys are journeyman and when I said vet, I meant NHL vets, not journeyman players that are just older. Would you call Megna a veteran, no you won’t.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Gillis Gillis Gillis Gillis Gillis...where's alternate? He around?

The reason why I am talking about Gillis players is because to get picks for players you need to trade something valuable. Benning inherited a few 1st line forwards A few top 6 to top 9 forwards. 4 or 5 top 4 D. Benning is building a new young core. You are not going to trade a way the young core that you are building for draft picks unless there are too many good young players. The players that Benning signs usually are stop gap players like Vanek Vrbata Miller Bartkowski, Weber (btw was a Gillis player) Gagner, MDZ. Stop gap players are not going to have much value but you still need those players to fill out the roster.

Okay, how many damn years are people going to keep moaning about the guy who got fired four years ago? Whatever else Benning did or didn't inherit, he inherited a full slate of draft picks in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. He inherited a farm team that was newly created and well supported by its local fans. I mean, jesus. Is this the only bad team in the NHL? Nobody ever took over a team without that last guy's stuff, which in case you forget was a 101 point team in the 2014/15 season...

You know what? f*** it. I've had this conversation too many damn times over the last few years. You want to rehash the BUT GILLIS!! stuff? Just go through my posting history. It's all in there.

Imagine Benning took over with nothing. Every gm has a slate of draft picks every year. What's he done with them? Look at that.

Btw Garrison wanted to go Flo or Tampa only and Yzerman wanted him. If a player has a ntc and the teams on that lists doesn't want that player. No matter how you try to spin it's not Benning fault.

He got a 2nd round pick for Garrison. Just like he did with Bieksa. What happened to those picks? What did he do with them?

Go back and find those forum. Those trades for Pouliot, Vey, Baer, half of people actually were ok with those trades. Now those trades fail, so many Canucks fan are acting like experts now

Appeal to popularity, appeal to popularity, appeal to popularity. Big whoop. For the record, I hated the Pouliot deal, was willing to withhold judgement on Vey and was lukewarm on the Baertschi deal. And who gives a shit who liked the deals at the time? The best those deals has produced is a guy whose best year is 35 points. That's it.

2014 to 2017 draft there are two players that are on roster that has nhl experience Boeser and Virtanen. So pretend if Benning didn't trade picks for Vey, Baer, Pedan, Pouliot, Larsen there would be 5 more picks. So maybe 1 more nhl player on the roster. So you are still going to need to sign fill out the roster.

For two seconds, a 3rd, a 4th and a 5th, you think maybe one more player should have been added to the prospect pool...hmm. Really? People seem to be pretty stoked with Woo, Lind and Gadjovic...those are the recent 2nds. Remember Hansen? He was a 9th round pick ffs, and he managed to spend a season riding shotgun with the Sedins and picked up 20 goals that year.

We need more damn draft picks.

Benning signing a bunch of Vets because the young players are not ready. I think this reason you guys think he is not rebuilding. Don't be fool by it. You still need players to play.

We think Benning's not rebuilding because he isn't rebuilding. Benning just can't get enough good young guys to form a young core.

 

[Canucks1096]

I am not really changing the goal post, Biega is not an established NHLer in any way at all , ditto with larsen. These guys are journeyman and when I said vet, I meant NHL vets, not journeyman players that are just older. Would you call Megna a veteran, no you won’t.

True but the original argument you made was Stecher is on the roster because of injuries. Biega and Larsen were healthy scratches which proves Stecher wasn't on the roster just because of injuries.