The Rebuild Started...

[pomorick]

I think you are generalizing a lot.

I think you just don't understand.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I think you are generalizing a lot.

In what way? A 4th liner is a 4th liner. Granted there are degrees of 4th liner quality. I won’t deny that Beagle is probably better than Gaunce right now. But really, neither are suited to spell the workload of better players. That’s the point.

Benning is betting that by increasing a prospect’s Ozone starts and decreasing his defensive liability, he will produce more and not get burned as much. Gaunce and similar 4th liners still help do this. His line had this function last year. What’s more, Benning could have instead added offensive players to better help said prospect take advantage of those sheltered minutes. So not only do the prospects have to fend for themselves in the Ozone, learning to score in the NHL, lesser linemates make it easier for defenders to turn the play against those same prospects, Ozone starts or no Ozone starts.

 

[passive voice]

....But Canucks are not an elite team they have lot cap to spend and they don't need to worry the cap for next 3 or 4 years.

There not handcuff the team because they don't need that cap for the next 3. or 4 years...

You're cool with not being competitive in TWENTY TWENTY-TWO??????

 

[Shareefruck]

Christ, this argument is terrible.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

So you earnestly think they started to rebuild the summer after they made the playoffs, trading Bonino for Sutter, letting Mathias and Richardson walk, a year before letting Hamhuis walk and signing Eriksson. This is when the rebuild started?

Yes. The logic was Sutter and Eriksson were better rebuilding options. The former to protect young players from tough minutes and the latter to relieve some of the pressure on the young players to generate offence. Yes I’m aware that Ericsson hasn’t played up to his contract yet but that doesn’t invalidate the logic behind the signing.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Well then Benning has been the worst possible person for the job given his record....surely you will agree with that???

The opposite is true.

 

[Hit the post]

Yes. The logic was Sutter and Eriksson were better rebuilding options. The former to protect young players from tough minutes and the latter to relieve some of the pressure on the young players to generate offence

That's why Sutter was initially put with the Sedins that first season and Horvat left to his own devices (not to mention let Vanek sulk & pout - destroying his trade deadline value).

(this isn't to say that isn't how Sutter is used now - used properly, he's been ok; Benning should've fired Willie on the spot for that decision).

 

[y2kcanucks]

They bring in Vets because they still need a full roster. You don't dress under 18 skaters in a game and you don't play prospects that are not ready.

Tell me. The Last 4 years which young player was ready and didn't get a chance because all the spots went to a Vet?

Fyi Canucks traded Lack for a 3rd round pick in 2016 and use it to draft Brisebois.

Since 2015 Canucks had never traded a pick for Vets before as well.

Hansen and Burrows probably could of got picks but they wanted prospects instead.

It takes two to tango. Actually a lot times it takes three to tango the 2 gms and the player that has a ntc. It's Benning fault that Edler won't waive ntc? It's Benning fault Hamhuis and Vrabta only gave a couple teams to get traded too? It's Benning fault that Sedins want to retire as Canucks? It's Benning fault that nobody wants Higgins and Weber. Its like what Torts said the team was stale. You expect all these stale players to get great return?

It's it so clear that pretty much every Gillis player Benning wanted to move for a pick/prospect.

Tell me which Vets player they could kf traded for a picks but didn't?

To say the rebuild didnt start yet is so ridiculous. You are a new to young core, that is still a rebuild.

Yes, they do need to fill a full roster; however, they don't need to give out multi-year deals to veterans. There is such a thing as signing vets to 1-year deals and looking to flip them at the deadline. Stepping away from the Canucks sphere for a few days, and coming back thinking about the 4 year deals given to Roussel and Beagle...it really is as bad as people say it is.

I've already listed players that didn't get chances because of veterans. Stecher probably being the best example as he only got in because of injury. Though I suppose the lack of a huge push of youth is a testament to how non-existent this rebuild has been.

Lack was traded in 2015, not 2016. It was also the trade that Benning chose to do instead of moving Ryan Miller for the 9th overall pick at that draft.

Yes, Benning wanted prospects instead for Hansen and Burrows. Why? Because this isn't a rebuild and Benning is instead trying to retool around some younger players and try to turn the team around quickly. Remember, when he first arrived here he said this is a team he can turn around quickly. He's been attempting to do so every year, but has failed miserably. That's what this is about.

Benning could have traded Hamhuis to Chicago for Dano and a 1st round pick but because he was still indecisive as to whether he was going to sell or hold to push for the playoffs, Chicago moved on. He started the trade process with Hamhuis way too late that Hamhuis didn't have enough time to consider different landing spots.

Who gave Vrbata that NTC?

It's Benning's fault that he's targeted players instead of draft picks in the deals he has made.

To say this is a rebuild is ridiculous because it ignores all the facts, and ignores what a rebuild actually is. It's a half-assed retool around current NHL players.

The drafting for the Oilers was horrible. That's one of the reason why it took so long for them to rebuild. They pretty got no solid nhl players outside of the 1st round pick

Partially true. But you're ignoring that they had some great prospects they got from those 1st overall picks. That alone put their prospect pool back then ahead of what the Canucks have now.

 

[y2kcanucks]

The opposite is true.

Wrong.

Benning is the worst GM in the NHL and has not begun to rebuild the team.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

That's why Sutter was initially put with the Sedins that first season and Horvat left to his own devices (not to mention let Vanek sulk & pout - destroying his trade deadline value).

(this isn't to say that isn't how Sutter is used now - used properly, he's been ok; Benning should've fired Willie on the spot for that decision).

I think Sutter felt that he was an offensively capable player who was stuck being the match up guy behind 2 generational centres. I think Benning knew his best skill was defending but to appeal to the player to re-sign with a lesser team after being on a contender he offers Sutter the chance to prove his offensive chops. Worst case scenario he bombs for a stretch and gets put back on matchup duties. But he did prove that he could play with the Twins successfully for a small sample size. He was an offensive player with a good motor, good speed, and a good shot. He lacks the pick distribution skills to be a true top 6 center but he can be a capable 2nd line winger which is obviously way less valuable than an outstanding matchup center.

You gotta remember Bo Horgan was billed as a defensive matchup center when he joined the league. That’s a way different animal than any other prospect we’ve had. It just so happens he surprised everyone with his offensive skills and forced his way up the lineup. So you can’t use Sutter’s offensive deployment as a winger to say he brought Horvat down or forced Horvat to do anything it’s just historically inaccurate.

 

[RobertKron]

I think Sutter felt that he was an offensively capable player who was stuck being the match up guy behind 2 generational centres. I think Benning knew his best skill was defending but to appeal to the player to re-sign with a lesser team after being on a contender he offers Sutter the chance to prove his offensive chops. Worst case scenario he bombs for a stretch and gets put back on matchup duties. But he did prove that he could play with the Twins successfully for a small sample size. He was an offensive player with a good motor, good speed, and a good shot. He lacks the pick distribution skills to be a true top 6 center but he can be a capable 2nd line winger which is obviously way less valuable than an outstanding matchup center.

You gotta remember Bo Horgan was billed as a defensive matchup center when he joined the league. That’s a way different animal than any other prospect we’ve had. It just so happens he surprised everyone with his offensive skills and forced his way up the lineup. So you can’t use Sutter’s offensive deployment as a winger to say he brought Horvat down or forced Horvat to do anything it’s just historically inaccurate.

Lmao

 

[Peter10]

You gotta remember Bo Horgan was billed as a defensive matchup center when he joined the league. That’s a way different animal than any other prospect we’ve had. It just so happens he surprised everyone with his offensive skills and forced his way up the lineup. So you can’t use Sutter’s offensive deployment as a winger to say he brought Horvat down or forced Horvat to do anything it’s just historically inaccurate.

Bo Horgan? Oh man thats gold, does he play on a line with Brock Boober?

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Getting 0 for Hamhuis in the same deadline
Eric Gelinas got a 3rd
Kris Russell got a 2nd and players
John Liles got a 3rd and 5th

Getting 0 for Vrbata in the same deadline
Shane Prince got a 3rd
Teddy Purcell gor a 3rd
Jiri Hudler got a 2nd and a 4th

Getting (basically) 0 for Vanek in the same deadline :
Frank Vatrano gets a 3rd
Mark Letestu gets a 4th
Thomas Tartar gets 1st / 2nd / 3rd

Signs Jay Beagle to 4 year / 3M deal when
Adam cracknell 1 year deal 650k
Valteri Filipula 1 year deal
Zack Rinaldo 1 year deal 650
Tom Khunachal 1 year deal
Robbi Fabbri 1 year deal 950k
Anthony Duclaire 1 year deal 650k

If you think Benning isn’t the worst GM in Canucks history , and the whole NHL, keep re-reading above.

Wrong.

Benning is the worst GM in the NHL and has not begun to rebuild the team.

 

[rypper]

Yes I’m aware that Ericsson hasn’t played up to his contract yet but that doesn’t invalidate the logic behind the signing.

So you think that's going to change as a 33 year old? I think it's just going to stay the same or continue to slide personally.

 

[Hit the post]

Out of that 2014 draft,four players have played approximately 80 NHL games,although 3 of them are no longer on the squad...If Demko becomes what we think he will..I would call that a good draft.

Time will tell if it gets any better..If we're having this same discussion this time next year,I would have to agree that there would be a problem.

lol - so demote Benning to chief scout and let somebody else handle the GM duties.

 

[rypper]

Getting 0 for Hamhuis in the same deadline
Eric Gelinas got a 3rd
Kris Russell got a 2nd and players
John Liles got a 3rd and 5th

Getting 0 for Vrbata in the same deadline
Shane Prince got a 3rd
Teddy Purcell gor a 3rd
Jiri Hudler got a 2nd and a 4th

Getting (basically) 0 for Vanek in the same deadline :
Frank Vatrano gets a 3rd
Mark Letestu gets a 4th
Thomas Tartar gets 1st / 2nd / 3rd

Signs Jay Beagle to 4 year / 3M deal when
Adam cracknell 1 year deal 650k
Valteri Filipula 1 year deal
Zack Rinaldo 1 year deal 650
Tom Khunachal 1 year deal
Robbi Fabbri 1 year deal 950k
Anthony Duclaire 1 year deal 650k

If you think Benning isn’t the worst GM in Canucks history , and the whole NHL, keep re-reading above.

I also don't buy for a second any of the excuses made during that TDL that prevented them from moving Hamhuis or Vrbata. If they used any sort of forethought and approached either player much sooner about waiving there trade clauses they would have had more time and options to maneuver.

The fact of the matter is leading up to the TDL, even though playoffs were such a longshot (Even if we snuck in by some mathematical anomaly we would have just been first round fodder for some team) Jim clung to his roster. If he recognized the state of the team earlier and made moves according to that we would have been more active at the deadline.

That's consistently been a problem throughout his time as GM. The inability to correctly identify the state of the team and what it needs.

 

[rypper]

lol - so demote Benning to chief scout and let somebody else handle the GM duties.

I'd rather keep Judd Brackett running things and demote Jim Benning to Steamers hotdogs.

 

[pgj98m3]

I'd rather keep Judd Brackett running things and demote Jim Benning to Steamers hotdogs.

Screw that.......I like the Steamers just the way they are.

 

[pgj98m3]

I think Sutter felt that he was an offensively capable player who was stuck being the match up guy behind 2 generational centres. I think Benning knew his best skill was defending but to appeal to the player to re-sign with a lesser team after being on a contender he offers Sutter the chance to prove his offensive chops. Worst case scenario he bombs for a stretch and gets put back on matchup duties. But he did prove that he could play with the Twins successfully for a small sample size. He was an offensive player with a good motor, good speed, and a good shot. He lacks the pick distribution skills to be a true top 6 center but he can be a capable 2nd line winger which is obviously way less valuable than an outstanding matchup center.

You gotta remember Bo Horgan was billed as a defensive matchup center when he joined the league. That’s a way different animal than any other prospect we’ve had. It just so happens he surprised everyone with his offensive skills and forced his way up the lineup. So you can’t use Sutter’s offensive deployment as a winger to say he brought Horvat down or forced Horvat to do anything it’s just historically inaccurate.

Just to remind you despite all the skillful acquisitions and the excellent deployment you apparently can see the Canucks are and have been a bottom feeder under Benning.....logic tells us he is crap in his current role.

 

[rypper]

The croque Monsieur dog is the shit!

 

[Canucks1096]

Bo Horgan? Oh man thats gold, does he play on a line with Brock Boober?

It's probably Auto correct on IPhone or Android.

I once said when someone disagree with another user. They must correct the spelling as well. If you agree with that person, you probably wouldn't even bother correcting them.

 

[The Drop]

I’m shocked you guys even acknowledge RMB.

There’s a handful of them that literally deserve zero attention.

At least Pastor of Muppets sometimes makes a sound argument that I can respect even if I don’t agree with.

The other couple who we all are aware aren’t even being genuine

 

[pgj98m3]

I’m shocked you guys even acknowledge RMB.

There’s a handful of them that literally deserve zero attention.

At least Pastor of Muppets sometimes makes a sound argument that I can respect even if I don’t agree with.

The other couple who we all are aware aren’t even being genuine

Very good point.

 

[pgj98m3]

Very good point.

But pig-headed stupidity needs to be confronted.

 

[Hit the post]

The other couple who we all are aware aren’t even being genuine

*****Hit the Post hears his name called!*****