The Race for the Calder Trophy

[AKL]

Top 32 overall centers, not specifically the top center on each team.

So not every team has a real 1C, but a team like the Oilers (for example) have 2 1Cs.

And this is where the line of thinking that there are less than 32 first line centers in the league comes from. If it's not just the top center on each team, then there's a certain qualitative and quantitative set of criteria that make someone a "first line center".

So now it's a gray area for people to decide what the criteria is and how many guys fit it, and that's where you can find people who don't consider Bedard a first line center (they consider him a 2C).

To bring it full circle, a lot of people want their top centers to be at least adequate defensively, unless they're completely blowing the doors off offensively (this used to be McDavid, could currently be Bedard if he had a better team, but that's not something you can prove). If Bedard isn't good defensively, that could be a major reason someone doesn't consider him a 1C.

That's where I think the disconnect is. His supporters see him as someone who could put up 90+ points on a better team, enough to overlook his defense. Others see him pacing to 70 points in a full season, not enough to overlook the defensive side of the center position.

 

[CallMeShaft]

And this is where the line of thinking that there are less than 32 first line centers in the league comes from. If it's not just the top center on each team, then there's a certain qualitative and quantitative set of criteria that make someone a "first line center".

So now it's a gray area for people to decide what the criteria is and how many guys fit it, and that's where you can find people who don't consider Bedard a first line center (they consider him a 2C).

To bring it full circle, a lot of people want their top centers to be at least adequate defensively, unless they're completely blowing the doors off offensively (this used to be McDavid, could currently be Bedard if he had a better team, but that's not something you can prove). If Bedard isn't good defensively, that could be a major reason someone doesn't consider him a 1C.

That's where I think the disconnect is. His supporters see him as someone who could put up 90+ points on a better team, enough to overlook his defense. Others see him pacing to 70 points in a full season, not enough to overlook the defensive side of the center position.

My view is that if you evenly spread out the best centers onto each team, those centers are all the 1Cs.

Im not comparing 18yo Bedard to McDavid or Matthews, I'm comparing Bedard to someone like Robert Thomas, maybe a Sebastian Aho (as a best case scenario).

 

[Hawkaholic]

Bedard loses a puck battle and then loses his man, leading to a Crosby goal. He was in absolute no man's land. Literally 15 seconds into his return and he's given us another example of his poor defensive game.

It's really remarkable that anyone could think he's anything but terrible defensively.

Edit: Add another one. Bad giveaway at the offensive blue line and then loses his man on the backcheck, who scores.

He's earned his minuses tonight.

Lol, this is how I know you don't know what you are watching.

1st goal, Seth Jones come in to make it 3 Hawks vs 2 Pens. He loses his position, and then chases the puck. Bedard falls into zone D like he is supposed to, neither Jones nor Vlasic cover the front of the net. Even Panger said, no D covering the front of the net. They were playing a zone D, not man to man.

I'm not sure what he is supposed to.do on the 2nd goal. It was a crazy play to knock the puck out of mid air by the Pens player, and then he defends it well, but Kurashev pokes the puck directly to the Pens player, instead of Bedard intercepting it like he would have.

I knew youd blame Bedard for both goals, because i knew you have no idea how hockey works. You should just be ignored when you talk about Bedard, it's clear you have a bias.

 

[Fraser28]

I would agree that Bedard hasn’t been very good defensively this year. He’s an 18 year old center on an absolutely horrific team; it’s not surprising, nor is it damning. Offensively, he has been elite and as advertised. He’ll get to a good place defensively; it’ll just take a bit of time.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

all of the sudden theres 5 more pages in here..lol

 

[Geoist]

This should have been a unanimous vote for Faber before Bedard got hurt and it isn’t even really a discussion now.

Bedard isn’t even the best rookie on his own team.

Edit: Add another one. Bad giveaway at the offensive blue line and then loses his man on the backcheck, who scores.

He's earned his minuses tonight.

That goal resulted from a tip by Kurashev that landed on a Penguin stick. Nothing Bedard could do there.

 

[Geoist]

Such a funny thread with some really funny posts.

Can't tell if they're sarcastic/trolling or serious. The posts are really that ridiculous.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Can't tell if they're sarcastic/trolling or serious. The posts are really that ridiculous.

It’s just opinions. I was just having some fun for myself.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That goal resulted from a tip by Kurashev that landed on a Penguin stick. Nothing Bedard could do there.

Except not make a high risk pass at the offensive blue line and not lose his man on the backcheck.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Lol, this is how I know you don't know what you are watching.

1st goal, Seth Jones come in to make it 3 Hawks vs 2 Pens. He loses his position, and then chases the puck. Bedard falls into zone D like he is supposed to, neither Jones nor Vlasic cover the front of the net. Even Panger said, no D covering the front of the net. They were playing a zone D, not man to man.

Jones was pursuing the puck carrier along the boards, what was Bedard doing besides drifting into the high slot to defend nobody? The moment Jones takes off, Bedard needs to recognize that he has to stay low to defend the front of the net.

I'm not sure what he is supposed to.do on the 2nd goal. It was a crazy play to knock the puck out of mid air by the Pens player, and then he defends it well, but Kurashev pokes the puck directly to the Pens player, instead of Bedard intercepting it like he would have.

Wouldn't have been a problem to begin with if he hadn't coughed up the puck at the blue line or stayed with his man instead of reaching for the puck.

I knew youd blame Bedard for both goals, because i knew you have no idea how hockey works.

He's not the only guy at fault but he made multiple mistakes on both goals. He's a total liability defensively.

You should just be ignored when you talk about Bedard, it's clear you have a bias.

Yeah, it's me who's biased, not the Blackhawks fan

 

[wetcoast]

Yes he is.

I can only guess you mean to say Vlasic is better, which while he's been fantastic, he hasn't been as good as Connor. Also, he's technically not a rookie.

Signed, a Blackhawks fan

I think some people missed the sarcasm.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Who said he was a net negative? The argument is about how terrible he is defensively. He's still a top 30 center IMO, but there's really no argument about whether or not he's a defensive liability. He absolutely is.

"Bedard isn't good defensively"

"


"

Leave the straw man arguments at home guys

Man you two are some L7 weenies. Bedard is the best rookie in the league. Faber is fantastic. I can’t believe you are spending this much effort trying to impose this narrative. Everyone outside of Minnesota and apparently the two of you knows Bedard is rightfully going to win the Calder. Not that it matters much anyway.

 

[WPGDEVILS]

anyone who watches hockey can see what Bedard is doing is different is special. If you watch Bedard play he is truly on an island.

He has the least help I’ve ever seen someone who’s expected to carry a team.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

As a Hawks fan who calls it right down the middle I can confirm Bedard is horrible defensively. That's not saying he can't improve. There's nowhere to go but up in this drastic situation.

As for Faber, he's easily leading the Calder sweepstakes. Such a pleasure to watch out there. I would name my puppy Faber just on principle of I owned, say....a puppy.

 

[Chelios]

Jones was pursuing the puck carrier along the boards, what was Bedard doing besides drifting into the high slot to defend nobody? The moment Jones takes off, Bedard needs to recognize that he has to stay low to defend the front of the net.


Wouldn't have been a problem to begin with if he hadn't coughed up the puck at the blue line or stayed with his man instead of reaching for the puck.


He's not the only guy at fault but he made multiple mistakes on both goals. He's a total liability defensively.


Yeah, it's me who's biased, not the Blackhawks fan

Find someone who loves you the way @WhiskeyYerTheDevils loves to downplay Bedard.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I think some posters are purposely obscuring what others are saying because they are being overly defensive that this years Calder isn't a runaway as they had hoped. Same thing happened when Kaprizov won.

First off no one is saying that Faber is an established top 10 defenseman in the league. But his underlying metrics including his total ice time is one, unprecedented and two, showing that this season he is at least in the top 10-20 defenseman as a rookie. He could absolutely fall back to Earth next season and be a good top pairing guy.

Second off and going off of that, everyone coming into this season thought Bedard was going to be a high end center and he has certainly shown that even with his injury. What Bedard is doing is on par for what most projected him to be. On the flip side, no one expected Faber to shoot out the gate like he did. Both rookies have taken advantage of their situation. Faber with injuries to Brodin and Spurgeon. Bedard being the only offensive threat on the Blackhawks. But if you asked anyone what they thought Bedard's season would encompass, he is meeting those expectations as a high end offensive center. However, most thought Faber would be a good top 4 defenseman that would top out as possible a good number 2 or 3 guy. No one expected him to end up being the top defenseman even in the worst case scenario for Minnesota this year and this quickly. Again if you have a guy meeting expectations if not a smidge more than that vs a guy that has blown away expectations than I'd be looking at the guy blowing away expectations

Thirdly what Faber is doing is almost unprecedented. If I read this correctly only 12 defenseman have hit 50 points or more. If Faber hits 50 he is part of that elite group. More so and even more important is his time on the ice. He has more than a minute more than Dahlin in his rookie season and that was when Dahlin went first overall and was expected to be a top guy. Faber wasn't expected to be the top guy even with Dumba gone. Like I don't know how to convey this any clearer than Faber is logging more ice time than any other rookie in the past 10 years. More than that he's logging roughly around the 10th-15th highest for ALL defensemen not just rookies.

Again no one is saying that Faber is better than Quinn or Pietroangelo, and no one is saying Bedard won't become the next Matthews or McDavid. But looking at this season and this season alone, Faber is running with the big dogs like Quinn and Pietro as a rookie and that's something to consider

 

[Crosby2010]

So he played last night, picked up an assist. That means he has 34 points to the next best 33. But we all know he missed about 15 games. Has a cage on him for his jaw, but he's playing, so if nothing changes I can't imagine him not winning it.

 

[Juxta Position]

So he played last night, picked up an assist. That means he has 34 points to the next best 33. But we all know he missed about 15 games. Has a cage on him for his jaw, but he's playing, so if nothing changes I can't imagine him not winning it.

He shouldn't though.

The League uses whatever current narrative they are pushing when it comes to these awards. They're trying to rebuild the Blackhawks garbage image right now because, when good, they are one of the leagues big revenue generators.

Bedard has missed 15 games and going by the awards history that is enough to say he shouldn't win it. RNH missed 20 games in 2011 and had the same amount of points as Landeskog who played all 82, and the excuse for RNH not winning was that "staying healthy" was a requisite for the award. Same with McDavid in 2015.

this League has no consistency and will give Bedard the award based on nothing more than he's a Blackhawk and they need some "good press"

 

[Crosby2010]

He shouldn't though.

The League uses whatever current narrative they are pushing when it comes to these awards. They're trying to rebuild the Blackhawks garbage image right now because, when good, they are one of the leagues big revenue generators.

Bedard has missed 15 games and going by the awards history that is enough to say he shouldn't win it. RNH missed 20 games in 2011 and had the same amount of points as Landeskog who played all 82, and the excuse for RNH not winning was that "staying healthy" was a requisite for the award. Same with McDavid in 2015.

this League has no consistency and will give Bedard the award based on nothing more than he's a Blackhawk and they need some "good press"

That being said, he is in the lead for the rookie scoring race. Doesn't that count for something? McDavid missed 37 games, had 48 points meanwhile the winner of the Calder was Panarin with 77 points. That is about as legit as it gets don't you think? Nugent-Hopkins didn't outpoint Landeskog either, so that might be part of it. I am pretty sure Bedard leads the rookie crop in points despite missing 15 games. Who do you give it to if not him?

 

[TaLoN]

That being said, he is in the lead for the rookie scoring race. Doesn't that count for something? McDavid missed 37 games, had 48 points meanwhile the winner of the Calder was Panarin with 77 points. That is about as legit as it gets don't you think? Nugent-Hopkins didn't outpoint Landeskog either, so that might be part of it. I am pretty sure Bedard leads the rookie crop in points despite missing 15 games. Who do you give it to if not him?

Brock Faber

 

[Al Lagoon]

If Bedard goes point per game the rest of the season, he will probably win.
Hell, how many hockey writers are are going to move beyond the obvious story line that has been crafted since the day Chicago got the #1 pick?
Not to say Bedard wouldn't be deserving: point a game as an 18 year old, with a broken jaw to boot, hard to say no.

 

[Yepthatsme]

The Calder voting should be wrapped up by the fact that Chicago was able to get 1 entire regulation win in the entirety of his absence, and was able to score 19 goals in 14 games in regulation time. Without Bedard, that’s a measly 1.36 goals at the end of 60 to try and win games. That number jumps to 2.22 when he plays (still embarrassing). A player capable of increasing his teams offensive output by 63% single handedly is absurd.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Jones was pursuing the puck carrier along the boards, what was Bedard doing besides drifting into the high slot to defend nobody? The moment Jones takes off, Bedard needs to recognize that he has to stay low to defend the front of the net.


Wouldn't have been a problem to begin with if he hadn't coughed up the puck at the blue line or stayed with his man instead of reaching for the puck.


He's not the only guy at fault but he made multiple mistakes on both goals. He's a total liability defensively.


Yeah, it's me who's biased, not the Blackhawks fan

I remember you used to love per 60 stats, so I’ll lay it out for you.

All numbers are all situations. With Bedard on the ice, Chicago scores 3.31 G/60. Without him, that number drops to 1.73. When Brock Faber hits the ice, he limits the opposition to 3.12 GA/60. When he’s off the ice, that number skyrockets to… 3.36 (at 5v5 he’s a wash, 2.58 to 2.61).

Just imagine if that one poster didn’t say Bedard was well ahead of Hughes as a prospect, how things could have been different. Bedard is bad defensively. He completely alters a franchise offensively. Faber wins the Calder any other year for being a good all situations top pair defenseman as a rookie, he’s just against Bedard which is unfortunate.

 

[Fraser28]

The Calder voting should be wrapped up by the fact that Chicago was able to get 1 entire regulation win in the entirety of his absence, and was able to score 19 goals in 14 games in regulation time. Without Bedard, that’s a measly 1.36 goals at the end of 60 to try and win games. That number jumps to 2.22 when he plays (still embarrassing). A player capable of increasing his teams offensive output by 63% single handedly is absurd.

2 Chicago goals so far today, 2 Bedard points (assist, goal). I do think he’ll win the Calder if he plays the remaining games this season.

 

[Geoist]

Except not make a high risk pass at the offensive blue line and not lose his man on the backcheck.

So now you move goal posts.

Bedard didn't have many options in that situation and the puck got taken away. Big deal.

Btw, Bedard with an assist and goal so far today.