Speculation: The Quest to sign Lindholm: Part II

[caymanmew]

It's a pretty obvious that a lot of these posts are based on nothing but spite towards the Ducks organization. There's nothing wrong with putting players with long term injuries on LTIR.

The problem is that once those players come off LTIR the ducks are around 80m cap. No sane GM is going to risk being over the cap by that much. Duck fans are using that as their solution but other like me don't see that being something a GM would do.

Sure those guys will go on LTIR and they are injuired so why not. BUT signing Lindholm using the space you made from putting guys on LTIR is not a smart move because when those guys get healthy you are over the cap and forfeiting games until you find your way back under the cap.

It is to risky to do it and although fans might be ok with doing it a GM who's job is on the line would be crazy to do it.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

It's a pretty obvious that a lot of these posts are based on nothing but spite towards the Ducks organization. There's nothing wrong with putting players with long term injuries on LTIR.

What if Despres comes back ready to play.and then nobody wants to trade with the Ducks unless they give a really good sweetener.

I don't have anything against the Ducks. Bought my brother a Getzlaf Jersey. Just that lindholm is a 6 million long term and currently they have 366k

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

The problem is that once those players come off LTIR the ducks are around 80m cap. No sane GM is going to risk being over the cap by that much. Duck fans are using that as their solution but other like me don't see that being something a GM would do.

Sure those guys will go on LTIR and they are injuired so why not. BUT signing Lindholm using the space you made from putting guys on LTIR is not a smart move because when those guys get healthy you are over the cap and forfeiting games until you find your way back under the cap.

It is to risky to do it and although fans might be ok with doing it a GM who's job is on the line would be crazy to do it.

Your argument boils down to...Do something rash in the next 24 hours rather than do something over the next 3-4 months. As Sojourn pointed out, a lot of things happen during the season which cause more trade opportunities to arise. Doing something immediately, when you don't have to, is just plain stupid.

 

[PAZ]

You should consider that opportunities will come up as we go further into the season. Players will get injured, and GM's will need to fill those holes. It happens every season. A little bit of bought time goes a long way for Anaheim here. Assuming Murray is smart about it.

And in the meantime, Lindholm would be playing.

That's a lot of faith on a GM who's starting to look very inept at his job.

Opportunities come up, but it's still a gamble. If Anaheim can't unload salary by the time a player returns, the cost to shed the salary will skyrocket.

 

[wintersej]

Do people not realize that LTIR is not put in place as a method to circumvent the salary cap? There are regular medical examinations. reports, and constant communication on the status of these injuries provided to the league, PA, and insurance companies who could be paying premiums based on those reports. I wonder how many doctors are prepared to cook the books and report a player is disabled to allow a team to get under the cap restraints... not to mention how many players would be happy being told that they have to pretend to be hurt until at least the playoffs. Players want to play, not be told...Bob we think you are crappie and want to get your salary off the books...can you hold your head and act like your injury is worse than it really is? Oh and we are going to use your money to replace you?

Bingo. Despres obviously belongs on LTIR right now, but commiting insurance fraud is a felony.

 

[dracom]

Bingo. Despres obviously belongs on LTIR right now, but commiting insurance fraud is a felony.

No one is talking about committing fraud. Jeez, people really need to read things on here.

 

[Sojourn]

Bingo. Despres obviously belongs on LTIR right now, but commiting insurance fraud is a felony.

It's a good thing no one is talking about that then.

The way this comes off is: I don't want Anaheim to try to use two very real injuries to their benefit, because I want my team to take advantage of their situation.

Insurance fraud? Really?

 

[Duck Off]

Bingo. Despres obviously belongs on LTIR right now, but commiting insurance fraud is a felony.

lol lord....

 

[The Duck Knight]

In order for there to be insurance fraud the contracts would actually have to be insured, and in all likelihood they aren't.

 

[Starat327]

In order for there to be insurance fraud the contracts would actually have to be insured, and in all likelihood they aren't.

There's also have to be, you know, fraud. People being on LTIR when they have legitimate injuries doesn't constitute fraud, last I checked.

Unless we're still operating under the crazy assumption that Bob murray is going to get them to sit out because of his cap issues. In which case, I've got a conspiracy about us not landing on the moon, too..

 

[thepuckmonster]

Bingo. Despres obviously belongs on LTIR right now, but commiting insurance fraud is a felony.

fraud
frôd/
noun
noun: fraud; plural noun: frauds

1. wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
"he was convicted of fraud"
synonyms: fraudulence, cheating, swindling, embezzlement, deceit, deception, double-dealing, chicanery, sharp practice

2. pharming
"he was arrested for fraud"
swindle, racket, deception, trick, cheat, hoax;
informalscam, con, rip-off, sting, gyp, fiddle, bunco, hustle, grift
"social insurance frauds"

3. a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.
"mediums exposed as tricksters and frauds"
synonyms: impostor, fake, sham, charlatan, quack, mountebank;

It's not fraud if he has legitimate medical symptoms.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

As an Oilers fan I agree with Ducks fans. They should either let Lindholm sweat it out until he caves to their demands or just sign him now for what he wants using LTIR money.

 

[Nordic*]

Thing is. If Anaheim is going to have a serious chance to even make the playoffs, they need Lindholm back ASAP. If he holds out another 20 games, it might be too late.

Heck, it might be too late even if he signed today. Anaheim is a 14-20 range team, not a sure playoff team by any stretch of the imagination.

Either make some trades to free the cap needed to pay him - or trade him all together. How much of a impact will he have playing only (for instance) 40 games?

Not enough. Especially since he isn't an elite offensive producer, his game is built @70-80% on defence - even if he still probably has quite some offensive potential that is untapped.

So.

Either sign within the next 10 games or trade him for someone that will help the team now. When the twins + Kesler are gone/way over the hill in 4-5 years, Anaheim will (probably) have no chance at a cup for quite some time. It is kind of now or never - and even now is pretty far fetched.

I give Anaheim 50% chance to make the playoffs without Lindholm, 65% with him.

 

[Curufinwe]

What if Despres comes back ready to play.and then nobody wants to trade with the Ducks unless they give a really good sweetener.

I don't see that as a big issue when Cam Fowler is such a valuable asset. It's not like they will have to unload Stoner.

 

[caymanmew]

I don't see that as a big issue when Cam Fowler is such a valuable asset. It's not like they will have to unload Stoner.

The issue will be they wont get anything of value for Fowler if they wait till they are at risk of forfeiting games before they trade him.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

despres has a potentially serious medical issue, seriously if you knew at all what was going on some of the statements here would not be, being made

 

[Curufinwe]

The issue will be they wont get anything of value for Fowler if they wait till they are at risk of forfeiting games before they trade him.

They won't wait that long.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I don't see that as a big issue when Cam Fowler is such a valuable asset. It's not like they will have to unload Stoner.

The issue will be they wont get anything of value for Fowler if they wait till they are at risk of forfeiting games before they trade him.

This.

Note: I'm part of Despres church I'd agrue I do. Maybe he doesn't play again. Maybe he gets to play in a month.

Does Murray want to take the gamble?

 

[Starat327]

This.

Note: I'm part of Despres church I'd agrue I do. Maybe he doesn't play again. Maybe he gets to play in a month.

Does Murray want to take the gamble?

Concussions aren't something you just wake up feeling better from one day and you're good to go. It takes a long time to be able to function normally after getting one. And that's assuming you don't have a setback while recovering. I haven't had one in years, but there's still days I wake up and it's nearly impossible to physically get out of bed, the migraines get that bad.

They'll have plenty of time to diagnose a realistic return date, and at that point, they can start negotiating with others. Who knows, maybe someone else we have a defenseman go down and be more willing to pay for Fowler than they are now.

 

[BB88]

"1. Basically, the Hampus Lindholm situation comes down to this: Anaheim wants him under Rasmus Ristolainen’s $5.4M salary.

At the beginning of last week, word around the NHL indicated the two sides were $700,000 apart per season (Lindholm at $5.8M, the Ducks at $5.1M). I think that’s closed, but the critical sticking point remains that if it’s a six-year term (as it is with the Buffalo defender), that buys up two years of unrestricted free agency for Lindholm as opposed to one for Ristolainen. Anaheim has flirted with a five-year offer, but Lindholm’s camp doesn’t seem interested."

"2. At the end of his contract stalemate, Calgary’s Johnny Gaudreau was getting some pressure from teammates to get it done. Word is Lindholm is getting similar messages.

This is an interesting one. Kelly Hrudey and Nick Kypreos made it very clear during Saturday Headlines they weren’t pleased about this. "
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thought-ducks-lindholm-oilers-leafs-100-flames-gaudreau/


No wonder Lindholm hasn't signed yet.

 

[Trolfoli]

It isn't Lindholm's responsibility to take a pay cut because their GM signed Bieksa and traded for Bernier.

I fully support using the LTIR to get Lindholm signed. Absolutely nothing wrong with putting this off and hoping something magically works out. What's the worst that can happen? Other then some guys getting healthy and coming back of course.

Oh yeah, Ducks are making the playoffs. Don't worry about that. They are easily in the top 3 of the teams in the Pacific.

 

[wintersej]

It's not fraud if he has legitimate medical symptoms.

I literally said that he obviously belongs on LTIR right now.

But, you can't just keep him there for months if it's convenient for you when he is healthy.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Bingo. Despres obviously belongs on LTIR right now, but commiting insurance fraud is a felony.

 

[sxvnert]

"1. Basically, the Hampus Lindholm situation comes down to this: Anaheim wants him under Rasmus Ristolainen’s $5.4M salary.

At the beginning of last week, word around the NHL indicated the two sides were $700,000 apart per season (Lindholm at $5.8M, the Ducks at $5.1M). I think that’s closed, but the critical sticking point remains that if it’s a six-year term (as it is with the Buffalo defender), that buys up two years of unrestricted free agency for Lindholm as opposed to one for Ristolainen. Anaheim has flirted with a five-year offer, but Lindholm’s camp doesn’t seem interested."

"2. At the end of his contract stalemate, Calgary’s Johnny Gaudreau was getting some pressure from teammates to get it done. Word is Lindholm is getting similar messages.

This is an interesting one. Kelly Hrudey and Nick Kypreos made it very clear during Saturday Headlines they weren’t pleased about this. "
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thought-ducks-lindholm-oilers-leafs-100-flames-gaudreau/


No wonder Lindholm hasn't signed yet.

Getting pressure from teammates is disgusting.

 

[Sojourn]

Getting pressure from teammates is disgusting.

It probably wasn't as bad as it sounds.

I suspect it's more like "Hope you sign soon. We need you out there."