OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[Peat]

Yeah this was kind of a frustrating game from Pickett. I thought his movement in the pocket looked a lot better and obviously the fourth quarter ability is a great thing to have. He just leaves so many plays out there.

Hopefully this game was a sign of things to come with the running game and OL, and hopefully if they start to gel, Pickett can gain some consistency. Green Bay will be a good opportunity for the offense to get some confidence before some big divisional games.

One of the most interesting things to me about that game was how Harris seemed to smell blood and energize. The OL was opening some nice big holes and Harris was really taking advantage. Arguably his best rushing performance of the season.

And that interested me because

1) He keeps having days like that, it becomes hugely easier.
2) I think it was an eloquent testament to the power of belief.

Given the way the OL has been playing and the playcalling that keeps sending Harris into defences that know exactly what's coming, I don't think there's been a huge amount of reason for Harris to believe he can make a difference this season. I know pro athletes tend to have massive self-belief, but even that has limits. The team gave him a reason to believe and he gave the team reason to believe.

I think and hope Pickett is in a very similar boat. If the team is regularly lifting the burden from and not asking him to win games in a conservative scheme behind a leaky line, I think he's got better everyday fundamentals in him. And the OL and running game play we saw is 66% of that.

Having four easier games maybe allows us to see that.

Also, leave Broderick Jones in there. He looks like a difference maker.

 

[MrBrightside]

Pickens is a superstar talent in a pedestrian offense. He’s in double coverage high and low almost every play and is the reason DJ is wide ass open so much. The few times Pickens is left one on one he gets the ball and usually makes the play. And very often he’s tasked with making a spectacular play few in this league can make.

I just don't see the superstar talent in Pickens. He is excellent at contested catches and has some crazy athleticism, but he runs lazy routes, doesn't get separation, and appears to be a complete headcase. The similarities between him and Martavis Bryant are many, and that's not really a compliment.

 

[DanielPlainview]

I guess we can just solidify you as a really poor judge of talent lol

 

[MrBrightside]

I guess we can just solidify you as a really poor judge of talent lol

Really hurts to have Pickett Superfan think that I don't know ball as well as he does. Not sure I can recover.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it matters less about Pickett and whether they can consistently get this level of performance out of Warren and Harris going forward. Pickett is never going to be good enough to be the focal point of an offense, this team must have a consistent running threat to both move the ball and also open up passing opportunities.

As they showed last night, this offense can still put up yards and points with Pickett being off if their run game is working. I am more confident in this team winning a game with a strong running game and Pickett having an off game than with no running game and Pickett having a strong game.

 

[Peat]

I think it matters less about Pickett and whether they can consistently get this level of performance out of Warren and Harris going forward. Pickett is never going to be good enough to be the focal point of an offense, this team must have a consistent running threat to both move the ball and also open up passing opportunities.

As they showed last night, this offense can still put up yards and points with Pickett being off if their run game is working. I am more confident in this team winning a game with a strong running game and Pickett having an off game than with no running game and Pickett having a strong game.

It's all about that O Line. They've been so up and down, mostly down. Not a surprise that maybe their best night equals the RBs' best night and what could have been Pickett's best night if he'd been more accurate.

They do that, and Canada avoids too many obviously terrible calls, and I don't see why they can't get all of them going.

 

[xlm34]

One of the most interesting things to me about that game was how Harris seemed to smell blood and energize. The OL was opening some nice big holes and Harris was really taking advantage. Arguably his best rushing performance of the season.

And that interested me because

1) He keeps having days like that, it becomes hugely easier.
2) I think it was an eloquent testament to the power of belief.

Given the way the OL has been playing and the playcalling that keeps sending Harris into defences that know exactly what's coming, I don't think there's been a huge amount of reason for Harris to believe he can make a difference this season. I know pro athletes tend to have massive self-belief, but even that has limits. The team gave him a reason to believe and he gave the team reason to believe.

I think and hope Pickett is in a very similar boat. If the team is regularly lifting the burden from and not asking him to win games in a conservative scheme behind a leaky line, I think he's got better everyday fundamentals in him. And the OL and running game play we saw is 66% of that.

Having four easier games maybe allows us to see that.

Also, leave Broderick Jones in there. He looks like a difference maker.

Yeah Jones is awesome. I know Moore sucks, but he’s a better run blocker than Chuks so replacing Chuks with Jones may be the best line for what they want to do on offense.

I was listening to the post game presser and actually thought Tomlin had a solid point (go ahead and insert worst person you know makes a great point meme if you want) — they converted some third downs early on which allowed the run game to get into a bit of rhythm which hasn’t happened all year.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Are you guys telling me a running game functions much better when the running back doesn't get blasted 2 yards behind the line 5 times a game? Big if true.

I liked how they mixed Warren and Najee last night so it wasn't so damn obvious when they were running and when they weren't.

 

[Peat]

Yeah Jones is awesome. I know Moore sucks, but he’s a better run blocker than Chuks so replacing Chuks with Jones may be the best line for what they want to do on offense.

I was listening to the post game presser and actually thought Tomlin had a solid point (go ahead and insert worst person you know makes a great point meme if you want) — they converted some third downs early on which allowed the run game to get into a bit of rhythm which hasn’t happened all year.

It's a great point, I just wanna know why the man making it is part of all these short passes on 1st and runs on 2nd and long that makes converting third downs early so difficult

 

[pistolpete11]

I thought Pickett was about the same which is to say "not good enough". The difference was that the running game was good enough to overcome it.

I've been pretty lenient with Pickett because of how bad Canada is, but....and I can't believe I'm going to say this....I thought Canada called a pretty good game. There were a few WTF calls, but the running game was working, the line was holding up (no sacks if I'm not mistaken), there open receivers for big splash plays. Kenny just missed them (either with poor throws or not seeing them).

 

[DanielPlainview]

Really hurts to have Pickett Superfan think that I don't know ball as well as he does. Not sure I can recover.

I know it's probably painful but I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to WRs

 

[Pens1566]

I thought Pickett was about the same which is to say "not good enough". The difference was that the running game was good enough to overcome it.

I've been pretty lenient with Pickett because of how bad Canada is, but....and I can't believe I'm going to say this....I thought Canada called a pretty good game. There were a few WTF calls, but the running game was working, the line was holding up (no sacks if I'm not mistaken), there open receivers for big splash plays. Kenny just missed them (either with poor throws or not seeing them).

Same here. The issues last night were largely a "Kenny problem" and not a "Canada problem".

 

[xlm34]

It's a great point, I just wanna know why the man making it is part of all these short passes on 1st and runs on 2nd and long that makes converting third downs early so difficult

You don’t love a good 2nd and 10 run up the gut?

I actually kind of like the WR screens they used last game - DJ is a solid YAC guy and Pickens has been great in space this year. I could do without the sprint out play they run 5 times a game though.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Pickens is a superstar talent in a pedestrian offense. He’s in double coverage high and low almost every play and is the reason DJ is wide ass open so much. The few times Pickens is left one on one he gets the ball and usually makes the play. And very often he’s tasked with making a spectacular play few in this league can make.

Much like with KP, it’s hard to judge what Pickens is in this putrid offense.

I'm not saying Pickett was actively good. He clearly wasn't. But some people, here and elsewhere but mainly elsewhere, are acting like that was a bum's performance that is proof he should be tossed from the team asap. And it's equally clear to me he wasn't that either.

And yeah, at some point he needs to be better to keep his job. But I'd like to wait for the offence to put up even back to back games where they don't look utterly dysfunctional before expecting him to be better.

I read a great quote on KP this morning that basically said “he has the hardest thing to find in a QB, the clutch gene, but now he has to expand on that”.

Basically hit the nail on the head.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I just don't see the superstar talent in Pickens. He is excellent at contested catches and has some crazy athleticism, but he runs lazy routes, doesn't get separation, and appears to be a complete headcase. The similarities between him and Martavis Bryant are many, and that's not really a compliment.

I see superstar upside, but the factors you mentioned are real problems that will make him good/frustrating, not great.

And if he doesn't become great he is a threat to go completely crazy, and not in a good way.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

"The clutch gene" is the most insufferable phrase in sports discourse.

 

[Peat]

You don’t love a good 2nd and 10 run up the gut?

I actually kind of like the WR screens they used last game - DJ is a solid YAC guy and Pickens has been great in space this year. I could do without the sprint out play they run 5 times a game though.

My reaction to that is legally classified as hate language.

The screens are working individually but, as a whole, schematically? I think they're part of very rarely finding easy chunks or scaring defences and making them back off, and being very easy to read, and making it hard to get 3rd down easy and establish a rhythm.

As part of a more varied, more aggressive offence, great. As they were... well, it worked overall, but I'm still jonesing for more.

And while I get some people might look at Pickett's performance and ask if you really want him to be more aggressive... I think doing so would make it a lot easier to establish a rhythm and play with confidence. It'd also allow the team to make a sounder judgment on whether he's just not that guy if he can't respond to that.

Note - asking Pickett to be more aggressive isn't asking him to try and throw 10 yards every throw. Just something in the middle between that and asking Harris to run into a brick wall on 2nd and 10.

ETA - stats show Pickett is weirdly good at 2nd and 7-9 this season anyway. Maybe that's just the side effect of running it so often...

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[Josey Wales]

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter
@AdamSchefter

At 5-3, the Steelers are the 34th team since 1933 – when rushing and receiving stats were first tracked – to be outgained in each of their first eight games of a season; they’re the only one of those who had a winning record, per
@JMcTigue85
. The Steelers are also the only team this season to be outgained in every game, and they’ve been outgained by -790 yards, 2nd worst to only the Broncos (-830).

 

[Pengwins]

Broderick Jones is their best offensive lineman, and Joey Porter Junior is their best cornerback. Why couldn’t our coaches figure this out in training camp and preseason?

 

[Josey Wales]

Broderick Jones is their best offensive lineman, and Joey Porter Junior is their best cornerback. Why couldn’t our coaches figure this out in training camp and preseason?

Well Oswald Bates doesn't live in his fears

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Are you guys telling me a running game functions much better when the running back doesn't get blasted 2 yards behind the line 5 times a game? Big if true.

I liked how they mixed Warren and Najee last night so it wasn't so damn obvious when they were running and when they weren't.

To expound on that (and perhaps a root cause) is they went against tendancy. They ran from the shotgun and passed under center. Probably caught the Titans off guard

 

[pistolpete11]

Broderick Jones is their best offensive lineman, and Joey Porter Junior is their best cornerback. Why couldn’t our coaches figure this out in training camp and preseason?

"Rookies don't play on good teams."

- Mike Tomlin

 

[DanielPlainview]

With Holcomb out for the year, I won't if we'll see Herbig play inside at all

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter
@AdamSchefter

At 5-3, the Steelers are the 34th team since 1933 – when rushing and receiving stats were first tracked – to be outgained in each of their first eight games of a season; they’re the only one of those who had a winning record, per
@JMcTigue85
. The Steelers are also the only team this season to be outgained in every game, and they’ve been outgained by -790 yards, 2nd worst to only the Broncos (-830).

The clock is going to hit midnight soon, but for now I’m going to enjoy watching the KP mouth breathers hold their breath and stomp their feet every time he pulls another one out of his ass.