OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[Zirakzigil]

I'm with you on most of what you said except for the Assistant Coach not joining because they don't think they have a chance to be the head coach.

That is something that should never cross their mind as that scenario pretty much never happens. And what I mean by that, who was the last assistant coach to take over for a sacked coach either; midseason or to be promoted at the end of a season to have a successful career?

I may be blanking out but I cant think of one......

In the past 5 years or so, I've noticed that rookies have taken a step backwards. Outside of Watt (who is a generational freak) and Highsmith who has improved?

Harris
KP
Claypool
Moore
Oks
Bush
DJ

All seemed to have promising rookie season and then they plateau or regress.

So yea I'd probably be down for gutting it, but we'll probably squander any talent that lands on this team

They will find away to win against bmore at home go 3-2 and come out of the bye with DJ back.
Cincinnati will shut down Burrow that will be 2 more wins they will get to 11 wins based on schedule

They might but what’s the point? They won’t win a playoff game even if they somehow manage to get there due to ineptitude in their schedule worse than
theirs lol…but I do congratulate you for being the most delusionally optimist fan on this board…

Why wouldn’t they win a playoff game. KC is certainly beatable Buffalo is beatable we aren’t a championship lvl team but theres no great team in the afc so far.
The 1st thing we need to do is sit 29 because he is a walking target and 1st down machine.

Ryan Clark send Matt Canada back to PITT

I have to disagree regarding Cowher, he built a Championship defense in KC and did so again in Pgh several times throughout his tenure. That's my biggest issue with Tomlin, if the defense was among the best year in and year out at least he would have one side of the ball covered.

But since Lebeau left, the D is simply relying on a stud up front to collapse the pocket. When that player is removed by injury or scheme, his defense folds. On top of that, he can't draft and develop on defense like Cowher could so his defense is also older and overpriced.

KC has no running game and no WR threat outside of Kelce they have Maholmes so they will get the benefit of the doubt
Buffalo still has its own playoff issues
We have tons of issues but a healthy Cam who should be refreshed when he is back will help our defense we just need Andy Dalton Alex Smith lvl Qb play

I am on board with giving Kenny 4 years to figure this out. Just build around him and we will find out if he can develop or not.

We do need to remember when it comes to Kenny - he was over drafted, and that isn't his fault. That's the organization's fault. WIth that being said, if he were a 2nd or 3rd round pick, the expectation to come out immediately and produce wouldn't be there. I think Kenny does some good things, and I think rather than focusing on continuity they focus on him feeling secure in his role to grow and make mistakes is far more important. I won't make a judgement on Kenny until he gets out from under this offense.

They need to change what they are doing offensively. They have to get a running game going. That is bullet point 1A in my opinion. If they can get the rush going, it will soften coverages for KP and the WRs and they should be able to get some chunks.

He went from Dom Capers to Dick Lebeau as his DC, though. Tomlin's defense was pretty f***ing good when he had Lebeau, too.

If you look at the years in between Lebeau leaving under Cowher, the defense ebbed and flowed. In terms of points, they ranked 11, 7, 12, 6, 3, 16, and 15 (average 9.9). Not all that different than Tomlin's defense since Lebeau left...11, 10, 7, 16, 5, 3, 20, 10 (average 10.3).

This is not to prop Tomin up or tear Cowher down. What I am saying is that having good coordinators matters.

I think KP was going to have some growing pains this season, regardless of the OC/scheme. But to this extent? Never thought it'd be this bad.

Let's put it like this: if KP was the QB for the 49ers, I don't think he'd have Purdy results, nor do I think he'd be as bad as Trey Lance. So he's somewhere in between those guys

The difference is that KP needs an environment where he's able to successfully navigate these growing pains. Do you think Tomlin/Canada/Sullivan are the right people to be in his ear? Hell Flores was apparently being credited for how he related to KP and he wasn't even on that side of the ball. It's crazy how terrible of a staff Tomlin has assembled.

Watch the play again, Pickett should have passed the ball way before then. I counted and there was 3-4 seconds before he spins for no damn reason. The pocket was there for him to pass the ball on a 4th and 1 where he should be looking to hit a player on a short route.

Wasn't there an audio clip last year (or year before) on Twitter on the opposing team's sideline and they kept yelling "it's the same plays"?

This article can't be surprising to anyone with half a football brain: if you know what's coming, defending is super easy even for a defense that isn't talented

Well I see it differently. He sets at the 42 around the late 2 second mark. If he plants and throws right at that moment, the defender crashing through the line splits his plant leg in half. Self preservation is very important in football at times.

Click to read more...

 

[TNT87]

Every minute that goes by without announcing Cananda has been fired is unacceptable. Easily the worst coach I have ever seen watching the Steelers. He should have been canned last season. I guess meaningless victories against shitty teams mattered to the organization during the last half of the year.

The incompetence this organization has over the years is an embarrassment.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I thought Butler was bad on defence. This though. Its actually amazing how awful it is with zero improvement.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

https://x.com/CityOf_6/status/1708914558423712008?s=20

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/statu ... LeP8Aph7Og

A good breakdown on the disaster that is Canada.

Matt Canada became the Steelers’ play-caller in 2021.

Since 2021, NFL teams have averaged 22.4 points per game.

And since 2021, examine the Steelers win-loss split based on only one sole statistic:

Does the defense allow above-average points or below-average points?

If the defense holds their opponent to below-average points (22 or fewer), the Steelers are 19-3-1 (86%).

If the defense allows their opponent to score above-average points, (more than 22) the Steelers are 1-15 (6%).
That shift, from winning 86% to winning only 6%, is the largest in the NFL.

What does it mean?

It means this offense, for going on almost 40 games spanning 2.5 years under Canada’s watch, cannot compete with average.

For the Steelers to win games, it falls on the defense.

A good defensive performance almost always means a Steelers win.

A bad defensive performance almost always means a Steelers loss.
Steelers fans: ask yourself when was the last time the defense played poorly but the team won because the offense won the game?

You likely can’t remember one because there hasn’t been one.

In fact, looking at the team totals lined for each game, the Steelers are 1-10 (9%) when their opponent exceeds their team total.

Since Canada took over as coordinator, the Steelers are .539 and have won 20 of 38 games. That’s the 14th-best win rate.

But his offense ranks #28 in points scored, #26 in EPA, and #26 in yardage gained.

Canada doesn’t understand how to win games in the NFL.

He doesn’t understand strategy. He doesn’t realize how vital it is to jump out and seize leads, and how often aggressive offense early in games ultimately leads to victories.

 

[pistolpete11]

@Coastal Kev

"I agree about having great coordinators, I'm just propping Cowher up regarding his D and his ability to draft and develop on the defensive side. I remember an interview regarding the D's status after LeBeau left for Cincy, Cowher asked if he was worried losing his DC responded "it's been my D since I arrived""


....but it got worse when Lebeau left. And had mixed results until Lebeau came back.

Anyway, I'm not trying to compare Cowher to Tomlin other than to say that Cowher...to his credit...had good coordinators. He had what? 9 or 10 guys on his coaching tree? Tomlin's had....zero? Despite being here longer.

 

[pistolpete11]

https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/statu ... LeP8Aph7Og

A good breakdown on the disaster that is Canada.

I think that guy confused "Steeler fans" and "Rooney/Tomlin" when he starts listing the excuses.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

@Coastal Kev

"I agree about having great coordinators, I'm just propping Cowher up regarding his D and his ability to draft and develop on the defensive side. I remember an interview regarding the D's status after LeBeau left for Cincy, Cowher asked if he was worried losing his DC responded "it's been my D since I arrived""


....but it got worse when Lebeau left. And had mixed results until Lebeau came back.

Anyway, I'm not trying to compare Cowher to Tomlin other than to say that Cowher...to his credit...had good coordinators. He had what? 9 or 10 guys on his coaching tree? Tomlin's had....zero? Despite being here longer.

I don't think Cowher was some mastermind either. At his worst, you could arguably call him a cheerleader as well (the same thing MT has been accused of)

But as someone else said, the MAJOR difference between Cowher v Tomlin is that the former was self aware enough he needed good coordinators to make up for his X's and O's deficiencies

When I hire someone to my team, I want them skilled in areas that I'm not as proficient in. They likely can bring different perspectives along with their differing talents. Tomlin apparently wants no one smarter than him and it shows.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't think Cowher was some mastermind either. At his worst, you could arguably call him a cheerleader as well (the same thing MT has been accused of)

But as someone else said, the MAJOR difference between Cowher v Tomlin is that the former was self aware enough he needed good coordinators to make up for his X's and O's deficiencies

When I hire someone to my team, I want them skilled in areas that I'm not as proficient in. They likely can bring different perspectives along with their differing talents. Tomlin apparently wants no one smarter than him and it shows.

That was me

 

[xlm34]

This is good news.

 

[Josey Wales]

Russ Francis Dies in Plane Crash

 

[bigdaddyk88]

This is good news.

Is it? I think he needs 2 weeks off to recover no need to rush him back before the bye

 

[xlm34]

Is it? I think he needs 2 weeks off to recover no need to rush him back before the bye

I mean I’d rather him be fine than seriously injured sooo…yes?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

That is good news. Better news would be hearing that MC resigned.

 

[JTG]

@Coastal Kev

"I agree about having great coordinators, I'm just propping Cowher up regarding his D and his ability to draft and develop on the defensive side. I remember an interview regarding the D's status after LeBeau left for Cincy, Cowher asked if he was worried losing his DC responded "it's been my D since I arrived""


....but it got worse when Lebeau left. And had mixed results until Lebeau came back.

Anyway, I'm not trying to compare Cowher to Tomlin other than to say that Cowher...to his credit...had good coordinators. He had what? 9 or 10 guys on his coaching tree? Tomlin's had....zero? Despite being here longer.

I don't think Cowher was some mastermind either. At his worst, you could arguably call him a cheerleader as well (the same thing MT has been accused of)

But as someone else said, the MAJOR difference between Cowher v Tomlin is that the former was self aware enough he needed good coordinators to make up for his X's and O's deficiencies

When I hire someone to my team, I want them skilled in areas that I'm not as proficient in. They likely can bring different perspectives along with their differing talents. Tomlin apparently wants no one smarter than him and it shows.

The similarities between Cowher and Tomlin are striking. Both were stubbornly stuck in their ways and were probably better motivators than coaches. Cowher at least was a really good and well established coordinator. I think the difference in the two is Cowher had coaches get hired from his staff and Tomlin has never even had one in for an interview. It shows that Cowher was atleast able to develop staff, which shows if you can develop staff you are probably pretty decent at your job that other team's want your guys.

 

[K Fleur]

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[PensandCaps]

It's actually insane that Canada still has a job. What are the Rooney's doing? Staring at a wall?

 

[DanielPlainview]

It’s quite possible that like his grandfather, winning isn’t exactly The Deuce’s top priority

 

[ChaosAgent]

The similarities between Cowher and Tomlin are striking. Both were stubbornly stuck in their ways and were probably better motivators than coaches. Cowher at least was a really good and well established coordinator. I think the difference in the two is Cowher had coaches get hired from his staff and Tomlin has never even had one in for an interview. It shows that Cowher was atleast able to develop staff, which shows if you can develop staff you are probably pretty decent at your job that other team's want your guys.

I'm not sure Cowher does much better in this era of football, 2010s onward.

The problem is Tomlin still thinks football is 2007-2011 era stuff. That is his philosophy. Going to be hard to attract a star OC.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Joe Starkey: Oh, don’t worry — Steelers still have great shot to keep non-losing streak intact

You have good reason to be concerned about the Steelers — even Kendrick Green is punking them — but don’t get too upset in the wake of...

www.post-gazette.com

 

[JTG]

I'm not sure Cowher does much better in this era of football, 2010s onward.

The problem is Tomlin still thinks football is 2007-2011 era stuff. That is his philosophy. Going to be hard to attract a star OC.

Oh, I don't disagree with that at all. I don't think Cowher was a great X's and O's coach. I think he thought he was better than what he was. Where I give him credit is he created a culture here and those teams played in his likeness and they were highly successful (albeit they probably should have had another SB and very well may have if not for the Pats).

Cowher's prevent defense drove me bonkers. His stubbornness to not pass the ball was maddening. That being said, I don't think Cowher tried to be something he wasn't. I don't recall him trying to be too clever. He hired good coordinators and surrounded himself with talent. Tomlin, to me, almost has a superiority complex and that sort of came out when Bell and Brown both kind of echoed the same sentiments that Tomlin didn't care to hear from anyone else other than Ben.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Oh, I don't disagree with that at all. I don't think Cowher was a great X's and O's coach. I think he thought he was better than what he was. Where I give him credit is he created a culture here and those teams played in his likeness and they were highly successful (albeit they probably should have had another SB and very well may have if not for the Pats).

Cowher's prevent defense drove me bonkers. His stubbornness to not pass the ball was maddening. That being said, I don't think Cowher tried to be something he wasn't. I don't recall him trying to be too clever. He hired good coordinators and surrounded himself with talent. Tomlin, to me, almost has a superiority complex and that sort of came out when Bell and Brown both kind of echoed the same sentiments that Tomlin didn't care to hear from anyone else other than Ben.

It's hard for Tomlin to not have a superiority complex considering the national sports commentariat has kissed his ass continuously for years.
Entertaining pressers, early success, the love of the Steelers' continuity, and...uh, the thing we don't talk about but definitely plays in.
"Leader of Men" lol.

Having Randy Fichtner and Keith Butler as coordinators is deeply unserious. These two guys now are unserious. Who's next? Tyler Palko? Joey Porter Sr.? Ike Hilliard? The Maryland OC/DC?

 

[ChaosAgent]

There's some speculation that this is actually a Matt Canada burner account.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

There's some speculation that this is actually a Matt Canada burner account.

Canada can't read a play book that isn't drawn with crayons.

Do you really believe that he knows how to create a burner account? Or even knows what one is?

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

The Steelers have been consistently behind the cutting edge offensively since even the dynasty years. The problem is that winning with a punishing rushing attack and ball control is not the best or even a competitive strategy anymore.

Rule changes and NFL coaches being more willing to embrace schemes that used to be considered only fit for college means you need to score 30 regularly to be a contender now.

The Steelers' ceiling is the Titans at Vrabel's peak. They are not outscoring Mahomes, Allen, or Tua even if they did make the playoffs consistently anymore.