OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Super Bowl? Thats like a giant pot of chips or popcorn right?

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Eagles trying to move up to get Jalen Carter. It makes a ton of sense for them, and he and Jordan Davis would automatically give Philly the best DT duo maybe ever.



I think at 17, someone is falling to us that we wanted. We do this every year. "This guy will be gone...that guy will be gone." They can't all be gone. And every single year a team or two takes a guy who is completely off the board before us. We are going to get a great player at 17, I think.



The thing with Moore is that I think the coaching staff needs to determine if Dotson contributed to some of Moore's issues. Now that doesn't stop Moore getting walked back into Pickett, but it could be a contributing factor to some of the blown coverages by Moore. ...or maybe it was opposite. I don't really know.

I’m not going to argue my point too much because I get your logic.

They could stay put and take Van Ness or Wright and I’d consider that a win.

Just can’t see JPJ sitting there and Tomlin not pounding the table for him.

Tomlin had me convinced he wanted Willis, so he’s still on a honeymoon period with me and I’ll just keep telling myself he should know better.

 

[JTG]

17 + 80 plus another mid 3rd next year does get us within the ballpark of Philly’s pick but idk if that’s enough.

The parameters of the Devin Bush trade up were 20 + 52 + future 3rd for 10 so I may be underselling the cost a bit.

View attachment 697722

A 3rd next year is a round less this year. So it'd be 17, 80, and a 4th this year basically.

 

[JTG]

Depends how many guys you want innit.

For me, this team is in an awkward position if they try to solve Tackle in the 2nd round. There's a grand total of 3 Tackles that I feel good about the ability of, and only 1 where I feel really good about everything I hear.

As such, its quite possible that the guys I want will be gone.

If I felt better about Tackle then yeah, 17 is potentially a great place to draft. Lot of 17OA picks make the Pro Bowl at some point. I'd probably be eying up the Edge class over the CB class, I think its deeper at the top. I would still worry a bit as for me there's a fall off in quality at around 15 picks in and I've seen mocks where those guys all go before us. Would need teams to be higher on WRs/TEs/QBs than I usually see.

But... I dunno. I don't like the depth. I've seen enough 5 OTs in the 1st round mocks not to count on there being a ton of help in the 2nd. I vaciliate over Anton Harrison. I'd be comfy with Dawand Jones if there wasn't so much chatter around his character (but if there wasn't I'd bet on him going 1st round). Bergeron doesn't seem to have the physical traits.

And as for the guys we've got...


My guess is its yes and yes. Yes, Dotson made him worse. But, yes, Moore is a guy who needs help. Now, fair enough, kid is growing, it's a hard position to grow into, but I'm not sure he's ever going to be able to cope with it.

It would be nice to get some certainty. It's the one card on the table to make Pickett's life a lot easier.

It would also add a lot of insurance in terms of injuries. Even if they like Moore, he needs competition and back up. But I'd be happier if he was competition and back up.



I don't really like it. Part of me would be happier if they took a gamble on OT later and focused on taking value earlier. I just feel like they've boxed themselves in and probably need to do it.

Also my guess if they pass on an OT at 17 is they'll get Dawand Jones with their first pick of the 2nd.

I will be very curious to see how the addition of a veteran, upper echelon G will assist Moore. I still think Moore himself is a better G than T, but he may be passable if he had some help.

At 32, Anton Harrison seems like the best guy than I've seen available. I'm admittedly not a gigantic fan of his because he really should have gone back to school. He would probably give Moore a run for his money, but everything I've read, Harrison is not ready for the NFL from a strength and anchoring standpoint, but when he is, he could be a stud.

I’m not going to argue my point too much because I get your logic.

They could stay put and take Van Ness or Wright and I’d consider that a win.

Just can’t see JPJ sitting there and Tomlin not pounding the table for him.

Tomlin had me convinced he wanted Willis, so he’s still on a honeymoon period with me and I’ll just keep telling myself he should know better.

JPJ is sitting there, they are probably taking him. I can't see them not taking him. I am not against JPJ like some. He is familiar with the organization. He's familiar with the coaching staff. He knows the city and the facility. It's like I said with Kenny - you take a lot of the "rookie life" stuff out of the equation because the guy has familiarity here and he can really just focus on football and go home to mom and dad for home cooking every night.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

That’s kind of my point though.

They aren’t going to rebuild it all in one draft. If you can land a guy you believe can be a cornerstone for your team, go grab him.

Staying put worked out last year (even though they did try to move up), but that doesn’t always happen.

I just am wary about the opportunity cost at staying 17. It more likely than not could play out into being a no man’s land slot… best guys are off the board and now it’s guys who probably are not a great value at 17.

Maybe if they truly do go BPA, but I don’t think that will happen.

Honestly I think being in that window is much of what makes this draft so interesting from a Steelers perspective. Add in the depth at corner and there's juts lots to think about.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I will be very curious to see how the addition of a veteran, upper echelon G will assist Moore. I still think Moore himself is a better G than T, but he may be passable if he had some help.

At 32, Anton Harrison seems like the best guy than I've seen available. I'm admittedly not a gigantic fan of his because he really should have gone back to school. He would probably give Moore a run for his money, but everything I've read, Harrison is not ready for the NFL from a strength and anchoring standpoint, but when he is, he could be a stud.



JPJ is sitting there, they are probably taking him. I can't see them not taking him. I am not against JPJ like some. He is familiar with the organization. He's familiar with the coaching staff. He knows the city and the facility. It's like I said with Kenny - you take a lot of the "rookie life" stuff out of the equation because the guy has familiarity here and he can really just focus on football and go home to mom and dad for home cooking every night.

The difference for me is I didn’t care about where KP was from (I hate Pitt), I wanted them to draft KP because I watched all his senior snaps and saw a guy who had all the tools I want in a QB.

I’m prob the rare exception in that I hate Pitt, but really wanted KP.

When I watch JPJ, I see a guy who did well in college, but he won’t get away with being so handsy in the NFL. And his hips/change of direction scares the hell out of me.

I hate the idea of taking a guy because he is familiar with Tomlin and the org.

Seeing a corner with sluggish feet is a massive red flag and I think scouts are artificially inflating his value because of his freakish length.

 

[Peat]

I'll just throw it out there but if this was the old regime, I think you could rule out CB. None of them had full command visits (bar Ringo and DJ Turner), none of them had dinners. There's been visits but they aren't the classic tell-tale. Wasn't it LeBeau who recently said if the Steelers invite you for a visit, then either they've got a bunch of medical or off-field questions, or they're throwing a smokescreen?

They've shown a lot more interest in Edge Rushers. Dinner with Murphy and McDonald, went out of their way to see Van Ness. I think if it ain't OT, it's gonna be Edge.

edit: Or the org is going about things in a new way.

I will be very curious to see how the addition of a veteran, upper echelon G will assist Moore. I still think Moore himself is a better G than T, but he may be passable if he had some help.

At 32, Anton Harrison seems like the best guy than I've seen available. I'm admittedly not a gigantic fan of his because he really should have gone back to school. He would probably give Moore a run for his money, but everything I've read, Harrison is not ready for the NFL from a strength and anchoring standpoint, but when he is, he could be a stud.

Ditto on how Seumalo helps.

As for Harrison... I dunno, clearly traits wise it all adds up, there's something about his profiles that makes me go hmm. I think on some level I'm a little prejudiced against guys who come out of college when they've clearly got things to work on there. What's their motivation? Lack of belief in the coaches they've got? Wants the money? Wants the competition?

Wish the Steelers didn't need an OT this year.



p.s. Re Porter - I wish he had another name and another background. I don't it's wild for the org to like him. I don't but tastes differ. I just wish there was a chat about him without the suspicion of the org getting personal tie heavy.

 

[xlm34]

I'll just throw it out there but if this was the old regime, I think you could rule out CB. None of them had full command visits (bar Ringo and DJ Turner), none of them had dinners. There's been visits but they aren't the classic tell-tale. Wasn't it LeBeau who recently said if the Steelers invite you for a visit, then either they've got a bunch of medical or off-field questions, or they're throwing a smokescreen?

They've shown a lot more interest in Edge Rushers. Dinner with Murphy and McDonald, went out of their way to see Van Ness. I think if it ain't OT, it's gonna be Edge.



Ditto on how Seumalo helps.

As for Harrison... I dunno, clearly traits wise it all adds up, there's something about his profiles that makes me go hmm. I think on some level I'm a little prejudiced against guys who come out of college when they've clearly got things to work on there. What's their motivation? Lack of belief in the coaches they've got? Wants the money? Wants the competition?

Wish the Steelers didn't need an OT this year.



p.s. Re Porter - I wish he had another name and another background. I don't it's wild for the org to like him. I don't but tastes differ. I just wish there was a chat about him without the suspicion of the org getting personal tie heavy.

Yeah Harrison is a weird one. I know there’s been some interest but the Steelers have been pretty crystal clear that running the ball is going to be their identity which doesn’t really seem to mesh with Harrison’s strengths. He can obviously improve but I think you’re looking at Moore starting for at least another year. I dunno. It seems like some of these tackles are getting inflated just because it’s not a strong class.

And couldn’t agree more on the Porter Jr thing. The whole nepotism thing is even more annoying than I thought it would be.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you’re going off of draft pick value, I think their situation is that pick 17 and 49 can get you to 9 and 17 and 32 can get you to 7. I think they should just do 17 and 49 for 9 and take the best OT remaining.

I think you can ensure you get Paris Johnson by trading up to 7, I just question if it’s worth going up to 7 to guarantee that. You still have a chance of being able to get him or one of the other top LTs at 9 as well.

 

[lastcupever75]

17 and 49 is technically enough to get up to #9. But teams usually want and extra kicker to move down that far. So I could see a 2024 3rd being added on.

I have been saying for weeks now that that the trade partner, imo, is the Eagles. Weidl used to work for them, thus there is a relationship there and the Eagles don't need a top 10 pick. They could trade down to 17 and still get a player like Kancey and they love to pick up extra picks. So my prediction is if Paris Johnson Jr is still there at pick 10, the Steelers trade 17+49+2024 3rd.

Agreed
Bears were terrible last year. They need talent and have already traded down and acquired more picks.
Moving from 1-9 is already a huge move. Moving from 1-17 is crazy

 

[JTG]

If you’re going off of draft pick value, I think their situation is that pick 17 and 49 can get you to 9 and 17 and 32 can get you to 7. I think they should just do 17 and 49 for 9 and take the best OT remaining.

I think you can ensure you get Paris Johnson by trading up to 7, I just question if it’s worth going up to 7 to guarantee that. You still have a chance of being able to get him or one of the other top LTs at 9 as well.

If we are working with Chicago I'd see if they'd do a bigger swap than that.

Chicago - 9, 53, 64, 103 for Pittsburgh - 17, 32, 80, and (2024) 3rd

I'd like the two 2nds to be in the 40's and 50's, but it is what it is. We'd get our tackle. We'd still have two 2nd's.

 

[lastcupever75]

I feel like the Steelers are pretty transparent in how they conduct their drafts of late. I had about 75% confidence that we were going RB in 21 and QB in 22. Similar boat this year, I would be pretty stunned if 2 out of our first 3 picks are not OL/CB.

I don’t know if anyone watched the latest episode of “In the Room”, but Khan did specifically mention he was excited about having that extra 2nd round pick and the possibilities it provided. I’m probably reading too much into it, but there’s been more buzz than usual about trading up. I know we’ve only traded up/down like 3 times in the 20+ years Colbert was our GM, but this year feels like it could be another one. 17 + 80 + a late 2024 pick to move up a handful of spots and get our pick of the litter at OT (Paris/Broderick Jones) feels like a REAL possibility.

Otherwise, cross your fingers that Wright is still there at 17.

Where did you watch that?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don’t think they are trading up. I think they will go pass rusher at 17 and then they will auction of 32 I could even see a trade down from 17. This defense is built on pass rushing that’s is how Tomlin is going to win next year. They have invested a ton of money in the IOl and will go with chuks moore next year definitely will bring a young OT but he will be the swing guy year 1. I would say outside of TE and OT this is an all defensive draft. Next year in year 3 for KP they go all offense

 

[lastcupever75]

Yeah Harrison is a weird one. I know there’s been some interest but the Steelers have been pretty crystal clear that running the ball is going to be their identity which doesn’t really seem to mesh with Harrison’s strengths. He can obviously improve but I think you’re looking at Moore starting for at least another year. I dunno. It seems like some of these tackles are getting inflated just because it’s not a strong class.

And couldn’t agree more on the Porter Jr thing. The whole nepotism thing is even more annoying than I thought it would be.

I think teaching ( coaching) a guy to be a better run blocker is easier then teaching an OL better in the run game to be a better pass blocker

 

[WickedWrister]

Lance is pretty plugged in, but of course take it with a grain of salt

Where did you watch that?

 

[OnMyOwn]

I guess I’m starting to be in the minority, but I still don’t have a problem taking Porter at 17 if others are off the board.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I guess I’m starting to be in the minority, but I still don’t have a problem taking Porter at 17 if others are off the board.

From my experience, way more people would be excited to have JPJ than not.

The last couple of ppl I spoke to basically admitted they never watched him, but “his dad was awesome and robble robble.”

That’s again kind of my issue, they just want the guy because of his last name, which I find silly as hell.

If someone watched his film and disagreed with me about what I see, cool, just don’t tell me he’ll be good because his dad was.

 

[JTG]

I guess I’m starting to be in the minority, but I still don’t have a problem taking Porter at 17 if others are off the board.

People are so wrapped up in this team committing nepotism that they completely forget that JPJ is a really good football player. He has legit been in the 1st round discussion since the second the 2022 draft ended, which is tremendously difficult to do if you suck at football.

And going back and reading prospect profiles of rookies that had great success last year, want to know whose profile really compares closely to? Sauce Gardner. Like...eerily close. I started comparing their measureables and it became even more eerily simliar.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Gardner[/TD]
[TD]Porter Jr[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Height[/TD]
[TD]6'3[/TD]
[TD]6'4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Weight[/TD]
[TD]190[/TD]
[TD]193[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Arm[/TD]
[TD]33.5[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hand[/TD]
[TD]9.625[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wingspan[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]80.875[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Forty[/TD]
[TD]4.41[/TD]
[TD]4.46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10 yd Split[/TD]
[TD]1.54[/TD]
[TD]1.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


This isn't including Porter benched more weight than 80% of the corners ever at the combine, and he jumped 35 inches, which when coupled with his arm length and height is really f***ing high in the air.

Porter's profile and measurables read to me like how my Dad explained Mel Blount.

 

[OnMyOwn]

From my experience, way more people would be excited to have JPJ than not.

The last couple of ppl I spoke to basically admitted they never watched him, but “his dad was awesome and robble robble.”

That’s again kind of my issue, they just want the guy because of his last name, which I find silly as hell.

If someone watched his film and disagreed with me about what I see, cool, just don’t tell me he’ll be good because his dad was.

I was able to watch him over the years, being in state college, and have read what others in the media have said regarding his draft stock. So that’s why I feel comfortable with taking him if it comes to it. I understand your concern, I just don’t think he’s a bad pick at 17.

 

[JTG]

From my experience, way more people would be excited to have JPJ than not.

The last couple of ppl I spoke to basically admitted they never watched him, but “his dad was awesome and robble robble.”

That’s again kind of my issue, they just want the guy because of his last name, which I find silly as hell.

If someone watched his film and disagreed with me about what I see, cool, just don’t tell me he’ll be good because his dad was.

I really didn't see much wrong with JPJ watching him.

I think he can get turned around, just because he's so tall. He's going to have a rough time with shiftier WRs. He is WAY too grabby, and it's silly for him to even grab 90% of the time because he doesn't have to.

I think if we are going to have to deal with Jamar Chase, I like JPJ against him. He's not going to get bullied.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I really didn't see much wrong with JPJ watching him.

I think he can get turned around, just because he's so tall. He's going to have a rough time with shiftier WRs. He is WAY too grabby, and it's silly for him to even grab 90% of the time because he doesn't have to.

I think if we are going to have to deal with Jamar Chase, I like JPJ against him. He's not going to get bullied.

I think guys like Chase and Diggs will shake the f*** out of JPJ. I don’t think he has the feet to handle them.

Those are the guys the Steelers have to likely get past and exactly why I fear JPJ matched agt them.

Against bigger guys like Allen and Higgins, I think he will do quite well.

I was able to watch him over the years, being in state college, and have read what others in the media have said regarding his draft stock. So that’s why I feel comfortable with taking him if it comes to it. I understand your concern, I just don’t think he’s a bad pick at 17.

That’s fair. Again my issue is people who just want them to draft JPJ because his dad was a bad ass for the Steelers, but never watched him.

 

[WickedWrister]

I'm fine with JPJ. A guy who's opinion I really value is Dane Brugler from the Athletic. He has him as the #3 corner in this class and #16th overall, which feels about consensus. Big, long, aggressive outside corner is exactly what this team needs.

I'd just prefer to address the OL after so many years of ignoring it. Would benefit Kenny + Najee the most. In an ideal world, you get your QB and OL set, THEN you take a RB to maximize their limited shelf life (prime example would be Philly if they take Bijan), but that's just not how the Steelers choose to do business.

 

[JTG]

I think guys like Chase and Diggs will shake the f*** out of JPJ. I don’t think he has the feet to handle them.

Those are the guys the Steelers have to likely get past and exactly why I fear JPJ matched agt them.

Against bigger guys like Allen and Higgins, I think he will do quite well.



That’s fair. Again my issue is people who just want them to draft JPJ because his dad was a bad ass for the Steelers, but never watched him.

So there's really two things at play here. First off, you're right. I think guys like Chase and Diggs can shake Porter. However, if Porter starts manning them, I think he's so big and strong, that their timing is going to be f***ed. Porters arms are so long and he's so strong, that's how he's going to make his living in the NFL. If we don't plan on letting him play man...we really shouldn't draft him.

I'm fine with JPJ. A guy who's opinion I really value is Dane Brugler from the Athletic. He has him as the #3 corner in this class and #16th overall, which feels about consensus. Big, long, aggressive outside corner is exactly what this team needs.

View attachment 697808

I'd just prefer to address the OL after so many years of ignoring it. Would benefit Kenny + Najee the most. In an ideal world, you get your QB and OL set, THEN you take a RB to maximize their limited shelf life (prime example would be Philly if they take Bijan), but that's just not how the Steelers choose to do business.

I think that draft guide is top notch. What I don't realize is why he needs to tell us where the kid was in the real of kids? I give him kudos for knowing all this personal info but for me it was a bit much. "He was the middle child of 7 kids." Why do I give a f***? Can he play football?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Lamar gets 5 years $260 mil from Ravens

 

[Flying Dego]

Lamar gets 5 years $260 mil from Ravens

Good news for us.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Good news for us.

Yep. Starting with 24-25 season he’ll be the worst QB in the division.