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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Super Bowl? Thats like a giant pot of chips or popcorn right?

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Yeah if Lamar said he would take 190-200 million guaranteed which is more than Muarry he would have tons of suitors. I think Atlanta is one team who I think would make an offer after the draft since it doesn’t cost a top 10 pick. Miami would be in on Lamar after the draft. The ravens have tried to negotiate based off of Wilsons deal 160 guaranteed. Last year they were at the Allen deal 150 guaranteed at signing
 
bigdaddyk88 said:
Yeah if Lamar said he would take 190-200 million guaranteed which is more than Muarry he would have tons of suitors. I think Atlanta is one team who I think would make an offer after the draft since it doesn’t cost a top 10 pick. Miami would be in on Lamar after the draft. The ravens have tried to negotiate based off of Wilsons deal 160 guaranteed. Last year they were at the Allen deal 150 guaranteed at signing
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Which is the point.

And the point that some just seem to be missing.

Collusion for the most part is to keep the price artificially low. How in the world is that the case here? If LJ were not demanding an unrealistically high amount and term based on an aberration that no one is going to give, that I doubt that the Browns even would give if they had a chance to reverse it, then there would be a ton of suitors.

This isn't collusion.

This is a player asking the impossible and will need to let this play out before he comes back to reality.

You can ask your boss for a million dollars a year. Does it mean that you are not valued if he laughs at you for making the demand?
 
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I think the issue is that teams are not even contacting and talking to LJ. If the Falcons and Panthers at least called him up and talked to him about what he is looking for in a contract then they can make an informed decision. There is a ton of room between what Baltimore has supposedly offered, ~118mil guaranteed on a ~250 mil contract, and what another team may be willing to guarantee.

To say they are not interested before even talking to him is collusion.
 
The thing with saying teams should negotiate with Lamar is here's the two likely outcomes

1) You work out a reasonable contract, Baltimore match, you get a thank you note for acting as Jackson's agent and nothing else for your time and effort
2) You can't work out a reasonable contract

How likely is it you can find a contract you're happy with that Baltimore won't match?

Compare that to the odds of spending time and energy for absolutely nothing at the busiest time of the year. Particularly given Jackson's very likely stated demands and negotiating stance.

So... yeah, if I was a GM, I wouldn't bother calling. Maybe I would if this turned into "Jackson has requested a trade" but with the possibility of Baltimore matching? Would I tell the press I wasn't part of it? That seems dramatic, but given how long media narratives run here, maybe it's just common sense.


I'm not saying that disproves the idea of there being something, because the NFL does stupid things in the name of getting QBs all the time so the one time they're being sensible doesn't prove anything. But, I think this is also actually the sensible thing to do.
 
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I'm not saying they need to negotiate. Since everybody is claiming that LJ is only looking for a 100% guarantee contract for 5 years, then the other teams should at least verify that is the case. Could be a 5-10 minutes phone call and then they let everybody know they had a discussion with Lamar. That's it, don;t say anything more.
 
Goalie_Bob said:
I think the issue is that teams are not even contacting and talking to LJ. If the Falcons and Panthers at least called him up and talked to him about what he is looking for in a contract then they can make an informed decision. There is a ton of room between what Baltimore has supposedly offered, ~118mil guaranteed on a ~250 mil contract, and what another team may be willing to guarantee.

To say they are not interested before even talking to him is collusion.
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Not at all. I could see teams having absolutely zero interest based on the player alone. He's an injury prone, run first QB, that has never really translated to winning. Couple that with the already public reports about his asking price and it's not that hard to fathom GMs being like "nah, we're good".
 
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Pens1566 said:
Not at all. I could see teams having absolutely zero interest based on the player alone. He's an injury prone, run first QB, that has never really translated to winning. Couple that with the already public reports about his asking price and it's not that hard to fathom GMs being like "nah, we're good".
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They do NOT want to give him the Pejorative SlurED deal that the Stains Gave Taintman
 
Goalie_Bob said:
I'm not saying they need to negotiate. Since everybody is claiming that LJ is only looking for a 100% guarantee contract for 5 years, then the other teams should at least verify that is the case. Could be a 5-10 minutes phone call and then they let everybody know they had a discussion with Lamar. That's it, don;t say anything more.
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What does a team actually gain from doing this though?

To me there is virtually no path where it leads to them actually getting Jackson. It seems like the only thing they gain is they can go "uh uh, we're not colluding" but...

a) To the extent that the teams do care about this then yes, the owners do want it tacitly known someone asking for guaranteed money is in a hole until they reverse themselves and leave it
b) And nobody can prove anything and the majority of people don't care enough
 
Pens1566 said:
that has never really translated to winning.
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The stats say that is inherently false.

And again, you stated that there is public perception/reports of what he wants. The only way to truly verify it is to talk to him themselves. We all know these teams have media guys that will shill for the team and that narrative is what is put out there.

Honestly, the other thing that Lamar could do is go one a talk show of some kind and explain his position.
 
Peat said:
What does a team actually gain from doing this though?

To me there is virtually no path where it leads to them actually getting Jackson. It seems like the only thing they gain is they can go "uh uh, we're not colluding" but...

a) To the extent that the teams do care about this then yes, the owners do want it tacitly known someone asking for guaranteed money is in a hole until they reverse themselves and leave it
b) And nobody can prove anything and the majority of people don't care enough
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And we do not even know if a quick call had been made to LJ's agent asking. If a call had been made can you imagine the possible storm that might fly if they said, 'yeah we called and the idiot still wants that ridiculous amount and term'.

Those negotiations are kept private for a reason, otherwise you are not going to get many returned calls.
 
Goalie_Bob said:
The stats say that is inherently false.

And again, you stated that there is public perception/reports of what he wants. The only way to truly verify it is to talk to him themselves. We all know these teams have media guys that will shill for the team and that narrative is what is put out there.

Honestly, the other thing that Lamar could do is go one a talk show of some kind and explain his position.
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I mean, what have the Ravens won since he became the starter? Sure, he got an MVP award. But they've never gone past divisional round. They had more success with Flacco.

As for the public perception bit ... lets be real here. He's not gonna sign for any avg #, and that's obvious without needing to talk to him. Everyone knows this. That alone would eliminate cap strapped teams or any that are near there.
 
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Jaded-Fan said:
And we do not even know if a quick call had been made to LJ's agent asking. If a call had been made can you imagine the possible storm that might fly if they said, 'yeah we called and the idiot still wants that ridiculous amount and term'.

Those negotiations are kept private for a reason, otherwise you are not going to get many returned calls.
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Quite possibly.

Hell, we don't know whether a long call has been made to Momma Jackson going "here's what we'll offer your boy, we're serious, but he's got to ask for a trade, we're not risking Baltimore matching, and in the mean time we'll say we never damn called you because we don't want to look like fools if he doesn't ask for a trade".

There's a ton we don't know here.
 
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Pens1566 said:
I mean, what have the Ravens won since he became the starter? Sure, he got an MVP award. But they've never gone past divisional round. They had more success with Flacco.

As for the public perception bit ... lets be real here. He's not gonna sign for any avg #, and that's obvious without needing to talk to him. Everyone knows this. That alone would eliminate cap strapped teams or any that are near there.
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He saved Haurbugh job and has a winning record and they were in 1st place before he got hurt both seasons. They scored 13 points with out this season.
Is this argument going to be used against herbert. Murray has 0 playoff wins and got 190
 
bigdaddyk88 said:
He saved Haurbugh job and has a winning record and they were in 1st place before he got hurt both seasons. They scored 13 points with out this season.
Is this argument going to be used against herbert. Murray has 0 playoff wins and got 190
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They've had above avg success with him. Which is exactly the kind of track record they had before (without the SB though) he was there. Because they're a good organization. And they'll likely be as good after he moves on.

Bolts and Cards are apples/oranges with the Ravens.
 
Actually lets break it down.

Far as I can tell, four teams have said they're not interested in Jackson, right?

Dolphins - Have to say it. They can't have Tua catch them creeping with Jackson.
Falcons - Are guaranteed to get one of the draft's top prospects at #4. Very reasonable to think they straight up prefer that to Jackson.
Panthers - Would have to move up to get a QB, so maybe they should call about Jackson. But very regularly mocked as moving up, so maybe they're homed in.
Commanders - Most inexplicable "deffo not us"

Raiders aren't definitely out (I think?). "Definitely". Jets aren't but very homed in on Rodgers. Texans will pick one in the draft (or punt the question until next year while they accumulate talent).

So it's not quite blanket and most of them make sense.
 
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Peat said:
Actually lets break it down.

Far as I can tell, four teams have said they're not interested in Jackson, right?

Dolphins - Have to say it. They can't have Tua catch them creeping with Jackson.
Falcons - Are guaranteed to get one of the draft's top prospects at #4. Very reasonable to think they straight up prefer that to Jackson.
Panthers - Would have to move up to get a QB, so maybe they should call about Jackson. But very regularly mocked as moving up, so maybe they're homed in.
Commanders - Most inexplicable "deffo not us"

Raiders aren't definitely out (I think?). "Definitely". Jets aren't but very homed in on Rodgers. Texans will pick one in the draft (or punt the question until next year while they accumulate talent).

So it's not quite blanket and most of them make sense.
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Miami isn’t eligible until after the draft they don’t have their 1st round pick
Atlanta and Carolina don’t want to give up a top 10 pick
Commander with tagging Payne will have to open up cap space before they offer.
If you offer you have the cap space on hold for a week waiting on the ravens to match or not.
I would say this drags on after the draft or he does a 2 year guaranteed deal like Jones got and then gets to free agency
 
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Peat said:
Actually lets break it down.

Far as I can tell, four teams have said they're not interested in Jackson, right?

Dolphins - Have to say it. They can't have Tua catch them creeping with Jackson.
Falcons - Are guaranteed to get one of the draft's top prospects at #4. Very reasonable to think they straight up prefer that to Jackson.
Panthers - Would have to move up to get a QB, so maybe they should call about Jackson. But very regularly mocked as moving up, so maybe they're homed in.
Commanders - Most inexplicable "deffo not us"

Raiders aren't definitely out (I think?). "Definitely". Jets aren't but very homed in on Rodgers. Texans will pick one in the draft (or punt the question until next year while they accumulate talent).

So it's not quite blanket and most of them make sense.
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I heard his moms is really scary.

Maybe this is just all about other teams being scared of Felicia.
 
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Pens1566 said:
Eh, same "results" with him. They're not winning anything.
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And yet their own gm said living in a world without a Qb is not a world they want to live in.

Add miami has until may to pick tua 5th year option they and Atlanta are my 2 favorites after the draft for lamar
 
bigdaddyk88 said:
And yet their own gm said living in a world without a Qb is not a world they want to live in.

Add miami has until may to pick tua 5th year option they and Atlanta are my 2 favorites after the draft for lamar
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Of course they're going to say that while they're negotiating. What's he gonna say "Meh, we'll be ok without him and the overpriced salary he's going to require"?

We're getting off track though. His lack of winning was merely one point out of several as to why other teams wouldn't necessarily be interested in going after him. There's still a few more hurdles before we get to teams colluding as to why there's not a ton of interest.
 
Goalie_Bob said:
I think the issue is that teams are not even contacting and talking to LJ. If the Falcons and Panthers at least called him up and talked to him about what he is looking for in a contract then they can make an informed decision. There is a ton of room between what Baltimore has supposedly offered, ~118mil guaranteed on a ~250 mil contract, and what another team may be willing to guarantee.

To say they are not interested before even talking to him is collusion.
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Its only collusion if its a set plan for nobody to meet with hims. Maybe the Panthers just dont want Jackson at the price hes likely to cost.
 
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WheresRamziAbid said:
Its only collusion if its a set plan for nobody to meet with hims. Maybe the Panthers just dont want Jackson at the price hes likely to cost.
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It's collusion if they all agreed they wouldn't hand out fully guaranteed deals and wanted to slam a lid on the Wilson contract.

Just because they didn't specifically target LJ, doesn't mean collusion isn't going on.
 
Mr Jiggyfly said:
It's collusion if they all agreed they wouldn't hand out fully guaranteed deals and wanted to slam a lid on the Wilson contract.

Just because they didn't specifically target LJ, doesn't mean collusion isn't going on.
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It would be collusion if they all got together and agreed to tha.

My argument is that they didnt all get together and agree to that. For a very simple reason:

They didnt have to. Nobody wants fully guaranteed contracts to become SOP. So theyre not gonna give them out. They will let Cleveland, Cleveland and just ho about their business.

I think the lack of interest in Jackson specifically is just timing. Anyone bad enough to need Jackson likely has a high pick. Better to wait until post draft, use the pick now and then kick the tires.
 
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