OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Super Bowl? Thats like a giant pot of chips or popcorn right?

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[Peat]

In other news, cyanide producers are concerned that people are colluding to avoid eating cyanide.

i like Pickett and all but I'm thinking we would have been better starting Rudolph/vet QB last season and doing a 1 year rebuild. Could have signed Carr or Rodgers and been a true SB contender this season. Well i guess not with Tomlin at the helm

I think that's a pretty optimistic view of the roster, particularly if you remove the guys needed to create the cap space to include those guys.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Zach Allen and Dre’Mont Jones weren’t tagged today.

Two names I’m hoping Steelers chase to shore up the D-line.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

In other news, cyanide producers are concerned that people are colluding to avoid eating cyanide.



I think that's a pretty optimistic view of the roster, particularly if you remove the guys needed to create the cap space to include those guys.

Pretty optimistic view of Carr too

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Confirming what our eyes see:

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I wonder how long until the players in all sports, not just football, finally get it through their heads that the television and cable gravy train jumped the tracks and ain't coming back.

The NFL is better positioned than most others but all sports are going to bleed revenue over the next five to ten years.

I never get where some actually believe that money and revenues come from rainbows, pixie dust and unicorn flatulence.

You can whine and bitch all that you want to. You can't change reality by doing it. Revenues are going way down so naturally salaries will have to come down by a similar amount.

That is simple math.

That is reality.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I wonder how long until the players in all sports, not just football, finally get it through their heads that the television and cable gravy train jumped the tracks and ain't coming back.

The NFL is better positioned than most others but all sports are going to bleed revenue over the next five to ten years.

I never get where some actually believe that money and revenues come from rainbows, pixie dust and unicorn flatulence.

You can whine and bitch all that you want to. You can't change reality by doing it. Revenues are going way down so naturally salaries will have to come down by a similar amount.

That is simple math.

That is reality.

NFL players are the ones getting brained, so if I’m LJ and I see some clown who hasn’t played in two years and has about 50 women accusing him of sexual assault get a 230m fully guaranteed contract, I’m going to want at least the same deal, given I’m a more dynamic player.

The NFL has mega tv deals now, so LJ isn’t worrying about when the gravy train stops, nor should he.

I get the arguments why he shouldn’t get a fully guaranteed deal, but where NFL revenue might be in ten years should have zero bearing on his negotiations.

NFL revenue has more than doubled in the last ten years, from 9B to over 18B. The players and the agents know this so, why would they f*** themselves over the idea league revenue *might* go down?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

NFL players are the ones getting brained, so if I’m LJ and I see some clown who hasn’t played in two years and has about 50 women accusing him of sexual assault get a 230m fully guaranteed contract, I’m going to want at least the same deal, given I’m a more dynamic player.

The NFL has mega tv deals now, so LJ isn’t worrying about when the gravy train stops, nor should he.

I get the arguments why he shouldn’t get a fully guaranteed deal, but where NFL revenue might be in ten years should have zero bearing on his negotiations.

NFL revenue has more than doubled in the last ten years, from 9B to over 19B. The players and the agents know this so, why would they f*** themselves over the idea league revenue *might* go down?

I get your point.

Revenues absolutely have been bananas and have exploded.

But the past is not a predictor of the future.

We have an entire thread on how cable fees are unrealistic, bankruptcies, renegotiation, etc.

Everyone is going to have to come to the PRESENT and FUTURE new reality.

I don't blame the players for pointing out what you are pointing out. Neither they, nor you, are wrong.

But right or wrong has zero to do with it. There are no moral victories. Simple mathematics and ACTUAL revenues.

And revenues are most definately heading south.

And unless it is a one year deal teams better account for where revenues will be in five or six years if they are handing out longer contracts.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I get your point.

Revenues absolutely have been bananas and have exploded.

But the past is not a predictor of the future.

We have an entire thread on how cable fees are unrealistic, bankruptcies, renegotiation, etc.

Everyone is going to have to come to the PRESENT and FUTURE new reality.

I don't blame the players for pointing out what you are pointing out. Neither they, nor you, are wrong.

But right or wrong has zero to do with it. There are no moral victories. Simple mathematics and ACTUAL revenues.

And revenues are most definately heading south.

And unless it is a one year deal teams better account for where revenues will be in five or six years of they are handing out longer contracts.

But revenue isn’t heading south… it’s literally quadrupled since 2001, and Goodell keeps boasting about hitting 28B By 2028.

Aside from the anomaly of the Covid year in 2020, profits have risen every year.

Simple math shows us the NFL is a mega billion dollar machine and it keeps going up, up, up.

So speculating it may go down because of cord cutting and such, has to actually happen first, and become a trend.

Which has not happened.

So no agent that isn’t a mental midget will ever negotiate a deal based on the league maybe losing profits.

This isn’t really about profits dipping, it’s about the NFL’s secret CBA and how the owners have done business since before any of us were ever born.

They will never in our lifetimes allow fully guaranteed contracts like the NHL. Once in awhile it happens like Cousins I believe got that 3 year 84m deal, buts it’s rare as hell… because the owners have fought tooth and nail for decades to ensure players don’t get fully guaranteed deals.

Then along comes the bumbling Browns and desperate ass Haslem who fully guarantees Watson 230m.

That was a transformational deal that opened a massive can of worms for the league.

Long story short - the owners are now trying to stomp out what bumbling dufus Haslam did. So ya, there is likely collusion going on with LJ.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

But revenue isn’t heading south… it’s literally quadrupled since 2001, and Goodell keeps boasting about hitting 28B By 2028.

Aside from the anomaly of the Covid year in 2020, profits have risen every year.

Simple math shows us the NFL is a mega billion dollar machine and it keeps going up, up, up.

So speculating it may go down because of cord cutting and such, has to actually happen first, and become a trend.

Which has not happened.

So no agent that isn’t a mental midget will ever negotiate a deal based on the league maybe losing profits.

This isn’t really about profits dipping, it’s about the NFL’s CBA and how the owners have done business since before any of us were ever born.

They will never in our lifetimes allow fully guaranteed contracts. Once in awhile it happens like Cousins I believe got that 3 year 84m deal, buts it’s rare as hell… because the owners have fought tooth and nail for decades to ensure players don’t get fully guaranteed deals.

Then along comes the bumbling Browns and desperate ass Haslem who fully guarantees Watson 230m.

That was a transformational deal that opened a massive can of worms for the league.

Long story short - the owners are now trying to stomp out what bumbling dufus Haslam did. So ya, there is likely collusion going on with LJ.

The Watson thing has pretty much zero bearing on this.

As you point out it was an anomaly and rank stupidity. So anyone attempting to use it as a measuring stick would be chasing fool's gold.

The league ignoring it as a measuring stick is NOT collusion.

 

[Peat]

NFL players are the ones getting brained, so if I’m LJ and I see some clown who hasn’t played in two years and has about 50 women accusing him of sexual assault get a 230m fully guaranteed contract, I’m going to want at least the same deal, given I’m a more dynamic player.

On the one hand, I completely get that.

On the other hand, I also completely get every NFL team that says "you want that, go ask the clowns who gave it out".

The Watson thing has pretty much zero bearing on this.

As you point out it was an anomaly and rank stupidity. So anyone attempting to use it as a measuring stick would be chasing fool's gold.

The league ignoring it as a measuring stick is NOT collusion.

That is what Jackson is chasing though. Not from the horse's mouth per se, but from countless media and rumours it seems super clear.


Also the whole "we're not interested in Jackson" feels collusiony. But that part doesn't bother me, and good luck to the NFPLA proving the difference between teams following their best interest individually and together, insofar as I wish good luck to an org aiming to an extra 100m for a guy getting 150m or whatever it isn't. They want to make sure the grunts like Hamlin get their money even if scary stuff happens regardless of time in the league, genuinely supporting them. Fully guaranteed contracts for QBs, who cares who wins that one.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The Watson thing has pretty much zero bearing on this.

As you point out it was an anomaly and rank stupidity. So anyone attempting to use it as a measuring stick would be chasing fool's gold.

The league ignoring it as a measuring stick is NOT collusion.

The Watson deal has everything to do with this.

Not sure where you are getting the idea profits are going down when it hasn’t happened (outside 2020) in like, 30 years, maybe longer (I’ve only followed their profits since the 90s so).

All the rumors surrounding LJ says he wants as much guaranteed money as Watson.

The owners getting together and saying “we gotta fix what dumb ass Haslam did” is most definitely collusion.

Bisciotti being one of the most outraged and vocal owners when the Watson deal went down makes this even more curious.

On the one hand, I completely get that.

On the other hand, I also completely get every NFL team that says "you want that, go ask the clowns who gave it out".



That is what Jackson is chasing though. Not from the horse's mouth per se, but from countless media and rumours it seems super clear.


Also the whole "we're not interested in Jackson" feels collusiony. But that part doesn't bother me, and good luck to the NFPLA proving the difference between teams following their best interest individually and together, insofar as I wish good luck to an org aiming to an extra 100m for a guy getting 150m or whatever it isn't. They want to make sure the grunts like Hamlin get their money even if scary stuff happens regardless of time in the league, genuinely supporting them. Fully guaranteed contracts for QBs, who cares who wins that one.

I’m not making a case for why I think LJ should get what he asks, I’m explaining why he is asking for a huge fully guaranteed deal (according to leaks).

I’m also explaining why many people find it suspicious that suddenly all these QB needy teams who were in on Watson suddenly have ‘no interest’ in LJ.

None of this has a thing to do with declining profits, which isn’t even a reality so…

 

[Peat]

I’m not making a case for why I think LJ should get what he asks, I’m explaining why he is asking for a huge fully guaranteed deal (according to leaks).

I’m also explaining why many people find it suspicious that suddenly all these QB needy teams who were in on Watson suddenly have ‘no interest’ in LJ.

None of this has a thing to do with declining profits, which isn’t even a reality so…

Agreed, except I'd point out none of these teams were in on Watson when he wanted a fully guaranteed contract either. Cleveland were out until they offered that, if another team had matched it they'd have been back out.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

So if I respond to a Nigerian Prince who only needs my bank account information and social security number to get a million dollars out of his country and he is going to split it with me.

And none of you respond to the same offer.

Obviously you all are colluding right?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So if I respond to a Nigerian Prince who only needs my bank account information and social security number to get a million dollars out of his country and he is going to split it with me.

And none of you respond to the same offer.

Obviously you all are colluding right?

Well, the NFL owners have always been straight shooters and never colluded before, so this makes total sense.

Colin Kaepernick collusion never happened, was just a coincidence.

NFLPA is making shit up to because NFL owners are again a bunch of honest hard working rich guys who would never do anything shady or dishonest:

NFL memo: NFLPA alleges collusion on QB deals

Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson is one of a number of QBs poised for larger, longer deals. The NFLPA is trying to ensure they happen.

theathletic.com

It’s just a coincidence for like, the last 50 years of modern day NFL football there haven’t been fully guaranteed contracts, despite the CBA not prohibiting them.

All just a happy coincidence that makes the owners more wealthy is all.

Agreed, except I'd point out none of these teams were in on Watson when he wanted a fully guaranteed contract either. Cleveland were out until they offered that, if another team had matched it they'd have been back out.

That’s pretty much making the case for my entire point.

No team wanted to offer him a fully guaranteed deal, then Haslam got desperate and did something colossally stupid.

Then the other owners flipped out because Haslam went rogue.

These same owners aren’t going to give LJ a fully guaranteed deal because there is a secret CBA among owners that they won’t give them out and open that can of worms.

It’s literally been going on for as long as most of us have been alive.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I’m


Well, the NFL owners have always been straight shooters and never colluded before, so this makes total sense.

Colin Kaepernick collusion never happened, was just a coincidence.

NFLPA is making shit up to because NFL owners are again a bunch of honest hard working rich guys who would never do anything shady or dishonest:

NFL memo: NFLPA alleges collusion on QB deals

Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson is one of a number of QBs poised for larger, longer deals. The NFLPA is trying to ensure they happen.

theathletic.com

It’s just a coincidence for like, the last 50 years of modern day NFL football there haven’t been guaranteed contracts, despite the CBA not prohibiting them.

All just a happy coincidence that makes the owners more wealthy is all.

How are you comparing the CK situation and this?

CK wasn't looking for a quarter billion dollars.

Apples and oranges.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

How are you comparing the CK situation and this?

CK wasn't looking for a quarter billion dollars.

Apples and oranges.

Collusion is collusion. It happened with CK and happened with guaranteed deals.

Like you honestly think these owners get in a room for their annual meetings and don’t discuss this stuff?

You think they never once discussed preventing fully guaranteed deals over the last say, 50 years?

Just a coincidence it’s always been this way and just fortunately for the owners worked out perfectly for them!

How about that luck!

You have to be naive to think they didn’t lose it on Haslam at their meetings this year and discuss how to slam the lid shut on the Pandora’s Box he opened up.

Browns owners could be getting the cold shoulder at league meetings

Yes, the NFL’s 32 teams represent unique and distinct businesses. But they’re all bound together by Big Shield, and there’s a certain way of doing business under the broader NFL u…

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Collusion is collusion. It happened with CK and happened with guaranteed deals.

Like you honestly think these owners get in a room for their annual meetings and don’t discuss this stuff?

You think they never once discussed preventing fully guaranteed deals over the last say, 50 years?

Just a coincidence it’s always been this way and just fortunately for the owners worked out perfectly for them!

How about that luck!

You have to be naive to think they didn’t lose it on Haslam at their meetings this year and discuss how to slam the lid shut on the Pandora’s Box he opened up.

Browns owners could be getting the cold shoulder at league meetings

Yes, the NFL’s 32 teams represent unique and distinct businesses. But they’re all bound together by Big Shield, and there’s a certain way of doing business under the broader NFL u…

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

You are really reaching.

They colluded in the CK situation. I even get why they did. Politics and sports don't mix. Politics and any business don't mix. You are going to piss off half the people whatever side you choose. Same reason that I never allowed political yard signs outside my business for either side.

But it definitely was collusion.

In this case? If Jackson would sign for half what he was looking for teams would be lining up to sign him. They simply are not going to be idiots like the Browns were.

You seriously can't see the difference?

 

[OnMyOwn]

Owners will still give out guaranteed deals when they feel like it. Having a discussion about them and the precedence they set could be viewed as collision, if they all specifically say not to give one to LJ, but it would be unwise NOT to discuss the impacts in general, IMO.

 

[xlm34]

Yeah this Jackson situation is 1000% collusion between the owners. There were like 5 teams that came out and said they had no interest in Jackson about 5 minutes after he was tagged.

And there’s almost no chance league revenue goes down unless we see another global pandemic. They just signed like a 130 billion dollar media deal and don’t have to deal with regional sports networks unlike in baseball and hockey.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You are really reaching.

They colluded in the CK situation. I even get why they did. Politics and sports don't mix. Politics and any business don't mix. You are going to piss off half the people whatever side you choose. Same reason that I never allowed political yard signs outside my business for either side.

But it definitely was collusion.

In this case? If Jackson would sign for half what he was looking for teams would be lining up to sign him. They simply are not going to be idiots like the Browns were.

You seriously can't see the difference?

So… they just did this collusion thing once because ya know… politics?

It had nothing to do with what would help line their pockets?

What did the Ravens owner say about the Watson deal?

"I'm trying to answer that when I had a reaction to it. And it's like, 'Damn, I wish they hadn't guaranteed the whole contract,'" Bisciotti said Tuesday at the NFL meetings. "I don't know that he should've been the first guy to get a fully guaranteed contract. To me, that's something that is groundbreaking, and it'll make negotiations harder with others. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we have to play that game, you know? We shall see. If I was in bogged-down negotiations with Lamar, then maybe I would have a quicker reaction to that news."

If you believe the owners didn’t get together and ream out Haslam, then discuss taking a hardline stance against giving out fully guaranteed deals to big ticket QBs/players, you are pretty naive.

The Lamar Jackson unprovable collusion has started quickly

The NFL and its teams collude.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

The NFL and its teams collude. All the time. About various issues. Knowing it and proving it are two different things.

When it comes to Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson, there will never be direct evidence of an agreement among teams or a directive from 345 Park Avenue to avoid at all costs giving Jackson a fully-guaranteed contract. But the circumstantial evidence is potent, and (as we saw today) sudden.


Free agency doesn’t begin until next Wednesday. Immediately, however, in the aftermath of the application of the non-exclusive franchise tag to Jackson, the Falcons made it known to ESPN, the Panthers made it known to TheAthletic.com, and the Dolphins made it known to ESPN that they wouldn’t be pursuing Jackson.

The last one is a bit of a surprise, given that Josina Anderson of CBS Sports reported over the weekend that the Dolphins would “explore all options” at quarterback. How can the Dolphins explore all options while giving Jackson the cold shoulder?
The pattern is troubling. It suggests that the teams are avoiding ever getting to the point where they’d decline giving Jackson a fully-guaranteed, Deshaun Watson-style contract because they’ll never even talk to Jackson. They’re just not interested.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Yeah this Jackson situation is 1000% collusion between the owners. There were like 5 teams that came out and said they had no interest in Jackson about 5 minutes after he was tagged.

And there’s almost no chance league revenue goes down unless we see another global pandemic. They just signed like a 130 billion dollar media deal and don’t have to deal with regional sports networks unlike in baseball and hockey.

At the risk of seeming to argue against collusion in the Lamar Jackson situation, I wonder about the way this is being framed and whether it impacts public perception of the topic.

Did these teams convey unbidden that they were not interested in Jackson or were they contacted by the sports media which has been champing at the but to see how this was going to play out?

I don’t have the answer to that question but it wouldn’t surprise me if it was teams responding to inquiries. That said, there’s a narrative already at work that says teams simply just started doing the Danny Devito “no” “head shake” gif immediately after the Ravens made their announcement.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Theres a difference between owners all agreeing and even discussing Lamars free agency and universally agreeing that giving him a fully guaranteed deal isnt a good idea and collusion.

Collusion would be them getting together and specifically bringing up the topic and making an under the table agreement NOT to give Lamar a fully guaranteed contract.

Basically collusion of this sort is rare because its unnecessary. Its in every owners best interest not to fully guarantee contracts so thats the status quo.

 

[xlm34]

At the risk of seeming to argue against collusion in the Lamar Jackson situation, I wonder about the way this is being framed and whether it impacts public perception of the topic.

Did these teams convey unbidden that they were not interested in Jackson or were they contacted by the sports media which has been champing at the but to see how this was going to play out?

I don’t have the answer to that question but it wouldn’t surprise me if it was teams responding to inquiries. That said, there’s a narrative already at work that says teams simply just started doing the Danny Devito “no” “head shake” gif immediately after the Ravens made their announcement.

It’s just a weird situation all around. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything quite like it where teams were so quick to say they weren’t interested in a player of this caliber, even if they were just responding to inquiries.

With the price being only two firsts, some of these teams should absolutely at the minimum hear him out.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Theres a difference between owners all agreeing and even discussing Lamars free agency and universally agreeing that giving him a fully guaranteed deal isnt a good idea and collusion.

Collusion would be them getting together and specifically bringing up the topic and making an under the table agreement NOT to give Lamar a fully guaranteed contract.

Basically collusion of this sort is rare because its unnecessary. Its in every owners best interest not to fully guarantee contracts so thats the status quo.

LJ is in the crosshairs because legit sources are saying he wants a fully guaranteed deal like Watson. If they specifically talked about him, seems kind of obvious he came up, to what degree only they would know.

There is zero doubt in my mind the owners got together and agreed not to ‘go full Haslam’ and get the lid on this now.

That’s been reflected in all the deals signed since Watson by big name QBs.. Wilson, Murray, Jones, etc are not fully guaranteed.