OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

[bigdaddyk88]

Hopefully the Muth extension is coming soon

Yep he is about to be the highest paid Offensive player figure aav of 13 to 14 million

 

[JTG]

Greal deal for Cam. Hopefully they get Muth locked up before the season. They also have to find some help in this draft. Luckily there are some really good defensive linemen slated for this draft.

Also, if people like watching QBs, watch Raiola from Nebraska. Drool worthy talent. If Russ and Fields shit the bed...this organization really has to embrace maybe having a season that puts them in position to grab one of these QBs in 26-27.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm really iffy on extending Freiermuth right now. I think Freiermuth's extension will end up very similar to Kmet's 4 year, $50 million deal, but he was so unimportant in the receiving game last year that I'm really hesitant to pay him that right now. He averaged just under 4 targets per game last year and only 25 yards/game, I don't want to pay him Kmet kind of money until he's actually used like Kmet.

I have no doubt he'd be able to do that, because it's exactly what he did in 2022, but I want to see that level of production out of him before I sign him.

 

[Coastal Kev]

What an absolute disgusting waste of resources the Heyward contract is; And once again all of those cheering it today will be complaining about it in under 12 months. Garbage decision by team that's happy with mediocrity.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I'm really iffy on extending Freiermuth right now. I think Freiermuth's extension will end up very similar to Kmet's 4 year, $50 million deal, but he was so unimportant in the receiving game last year that I'm really hesitant to pay him that right now. He averaged just under 4 targets per game last year and only 25 yards/game, I don't want to pay him Kmet kind of money until he's actually used like Kmet.

I have no doubt he'd be able to do that, because it's exactly what he did in 2022, but I want to see that level of production out of him before I sign him.

He is the defacto Wr 2 this season and will flex out more.
Kmet has 600 yards 4 TDS and 60 catches on him over him and has played 1 more season

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Heyward deal is close to the Cameron Jordan deal he signed last season

 

[Pens1566]

Uh, what's the point of lowering the hit for this season???? Not like they're gonna use it on anything/anyone ...

 

[WickedWrister]

I'm really iffy on extending Freiermuth right now. I think Freiermuth's extension will end up very similar to Kmet's 4 year, $50 million deal, but he was so unimportant in the receiving game last year that I'm really hesitant to pay him that right now. He averaged just under 4 targets per game last year and only 25 yards/game, I don't want to pay him Kmet kind of money until he's actually used like Kmet.

I have no doubt he'd be able to do that, because it's exactly what he did in 2022, but I want to see that level of production out of him before I sign him.

Muth's first 3 years compare pretty favorably to Kmet, although there is a bit of an age difference (21 vs 23 yo rookies). The Bears signed him to that deal going into year 4, which is the same decision we are faced with.

If Freiermuth does have a bounce back year and we do our usual stance of not negotiating in season, then we have to pay a premium to retain his services in FA next year.

I'm willing to take that gamble that he does bounce back with better QB play and we save ourselves an extra couple million a year by getting it done early.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Uh, what's the point of lowering the hit for this season???? Not like they're gonna use it on anything/anyone ...

Cap savings roll over

 

[Coastal Kev]

I'll bet anyone Cam won't live up to this year's number let alone any of the additional years. Tomlin rewards his pets with both players and coaches. The city's new slogan should be Pittsburgh is for suckers.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I'll bet anyone Cam won't live up to this year's number let alone any of the additional years. Tomlin rewards his pets with both players and coaches. The city's new slogan should be Pittsburgh is for suckers.

They will be able to get him on snap count with Larry and Benton

 

[Peat]

I'm really iffy on extending Freiermuth right now. I think Freiermuth's extension will end up very similar to Kmet's 4 year, $50 million deal, but he was so unimportant in the receiving game last year that I'm really hesitant to pay him that right now. He averaged just under 4 targets per game last year and only 25 yards/game, I don't want to pay him Kmet kind of money until he's actually used like Kmet.

I have no doubt he'd be able to do that, because it's exactly what he did in 2022, but I want to see that level of production out of him before I sign him.

Kmet's contract came after three years where he got less targets than Muth (209 to 224), less yards per target (6.79 to 6.9), and less touchdowns (9 to 11). Kmet didn't get his money for different usage to Muth, if anything he got it for less (Kmet played 6 more games over his first three years than Muth). I know Kmet's numbers grew and Muth's didn't, but their body of work is still very similar.

Plus the cap just jumped 30m.

I get your reluctance but he's already earned the Kmet deal as much as Kmet did. Wait to see if he can stick up a 700+ yard campaign, 40+ yards a game, 6 touchdowns and the rest of it like Kmet did last year and you're probably paying out a lot more - particularly if there's another cap jump.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kmet's contract came after three years where he got less targets than Muth (209 to 224), less yards per target (6.79 to 6.9), and less touchdowns (9 to 11). Kmet didn't get his money for different usage to Muth, if anything he got it for less (Kmet played 6 more games over his first three years than Muth). I know Kmet's numbers grew and Muth's didn't, but their body of work is still very similar.

Plus the cap just jumped 30m.

I get your reluctance but he's already earned the Kmet deal as much as Kmet did. Wait to see if he can stick up a 700+ yard campaign, 40+ yards a game, 6 touchdowns and the rest of it like Kmet did last year and you're probably paying out a lot more - particularly if there's another cap jump.

Yeah I think I was overlooking Muth missing 5 games last year. Even if you take out their rookie years (Kmet was a TE2 in his rookie year technically), the two are very comparable in their years 2 and 3. Muth is at a 10.9 yards/reception, 37.1 yards/game and 7.2 yards/target compared to 10.5 yards/reception, 34.0 yards/game and 7.1 yards/target for Kmet. I think the two look pretty similar there.

I think the big difference is that Freiermuth had a terrific 2022 and an underwhelming 2023, while Kmet was more just good in both 2022 and 2023.

 

[Ryder71]

I'll bet anyone Cam won't live up to this year's number let alone any of the additional years. Tomlin rewards his pets with both players and coaches. The city's new slogan should be Pittsburgh is for suckers.

I think our DL depth is gonna be pretty good actually. I'm pretty bullish on our front seven. Regarding Heyward I'm largely indifferent about it as I don't see it as anything crippling. I think he'll have a solid season. With Benton and hopefully Leal taking a step forward there should be some insulation garnered there.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I think I was overlooking Muth missing 5 games last year. Even if you take out their rookie years (Kmet was a TE2 in his rookie year technically), the two are very comparable in their years 2 and 3. Muth is at a 10.9 yards/reception, 37.1 yards/game and 7.2 yards/target compared to 10.5 yards/reception, 34.0 yards/game and 7.1 yards/target for Kmet. I think the two look pretty similar there.

I think the big difference is that Freiermuth had a terrific 2022 and an underwhelming 2023, while Kmet was more just good in both 2022 and 2023.

As I've alluded to many times, 2023 was such a collective atrocity against football that I'll believe anyone involved in it can be better. In the case of Muth, it's that much easier when he has been better. It's also possible he's regressing, or his frailty will play out the wrong way again, or he won't fit with Smith, but I don't majorly worried about those things.

I guess for me, assuming it's something like the Kmet deal, it's a gamble both ways. Steelers could win that big as well as losing. They could also lose big for not tying him down as I imagine he'd be a hot commodity in free agency if he has a big year this year, and it's kind of what else are the Steelers going to do if not Muth? Yeah, the NCAA is turning out a lot of polished route running TEs these days, but it's still a draft pick to make when the team still isn't short of needs and is already young on offence. You can go to UFA, but Tyler Conklin is your best option and will be expensive too and you can't guarantee getting him.

I wouldn't be completely surprised or blame the team if they decide to go wait and see, but I think the logic for trying to get it done is strong and I think I still mostly expect something to happen.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'm really iffy on extending Freiermuth right now. I think Freiermuth's extension will end up very similar to Kmet's 4 year, $50 million deal, but he was so unimportant in the receiving game last year that I'm really hesitant to pay him that right now. He averaged just under 4 targets per game last year and only 25 yards/game, I don't want to pay him Kmet kind of money until he's actually used like Kmet.

I have no doubt he'd be able to do that, because it's exactly what he did in 2022, but I want to see that level of production out of him before I sign him.

I have a feeling Muth is going to see a bunch of work this season with Art Smith's offense.

I don't have concern's about Muth's talent- he's a slightly above average TE. It's his health that's got me wondering if he's worthy of an extension.

 

[pistolpete11]

Granted I don't really understand the NFL cap, but Heyward's deal seems…fine. I still think he's an effective player, but obviously on the decline. How good/bad the deal is by the end will depend on how healthy he can stay. For 2024, though, glad to have him.

With Muth, hard to put up stats as a TE when you have a head coach, OC, and QB who's afraid to throw the ball over the middle. Didn't he have like 120 yards in the first game after they fired Canada? I think Muth is a really solid player. He's not a game changer like Kittle or Kelce, but I think if he was made more of a focal point, he'd be in that top 5-10 TE range.

 

[MrBrightside]

If they extend Friermuth at a good number, fine. But the idea that this a huge priority is pretty damning of the rest of the talent on offense - if you're worried about locking up the 12th or 14th best TE in football, you need more weapons BADLY.

 

[xlm34]

As I've alluded to many times, 2023 was such a collective atrocity against football that I'll believe anyone involved in it can be better. In the case of Muth, it's that much easier when he has been better. It's also possible he's regressing, or his frailty will play out the wrong way again, or he won't fit with Smith, but I don't majorly worried about those things.

I guess for me, assuming it's something like the Kmet deal, it's a gamble both ways. Steelers could win that big as well as losing. They could also lose big for not tying him down as I imagine he'd be a hot commodity in free agency if he has a big year this year, and it's kind of what else are the Steelers going to do if not Muth? Yeah, the NCAA is turning out a lot of polished route running TEs these days, but it's still a draft pick to make when the team still isn't short of needs and is already young on offence. You can go to UFA, but Tyler Conklin is your best option and will be expensive too and you can't guarantee getting him.

I wouldn't be completely surprised or blame the team if they decide to go wait and see, but I think the logic for trying to get it done is strong and I think I still mostly expect something to happen.

This is probably the biggest reason I’m in favor of them making a deal with him now. They currently are going to have needs at WR, RB, QB, DL, and CB going into next offseason so it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to create another need when you already have a solid (and could be more than solid with an OC that remembers the TE position exists) player that isn’t going to kill you from a cap perspective.

It’s kind of the same reason I was hoping they’d pickup Najee’s 5th year option.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If they extend Friermuth at a good number, fine. But the idea that this a huge priority is pretty damning of the rest of the talent on offense - if you're worried about locking up the 12th or 14th best TE in football, you need more weapons BADLY.

I understand what you're saying and how you're saying it and this is not a knock against the post I'm just saying that maybe because I've had plenty of coffee already this morning or maybe it's a long-weekend "hangover" or what but I keep laughing at the idea that Muth can't be the 13th best TE in the league.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If they extend Friermuth at a good number, fine. But the idea that this a huge priority is pretty damning of the rest of the talent on offense - if you're worried about locking up the 12th or 14th best TE in football, you need more weapons BADLY.

Muth entered last season as the 6th best te in fantasy. His rookie season was historic and he was pacing to be surpass Miller as our franchise leading te.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Granted I don't really understand the NFL cap, but Heyward's deal seems…fine. I still think he's an effective player, but obviously on the decline. How good/bad the deal is by the end will depend on how healthy he can stay. For 2024, though, glad to have him.

They basically guarenteed his money this year. So if he falls off/retires, they won't get hit with a cap penalty.
Initially I was furious they extended him but if you look at the cap implications, little risk for the Steelers.

 

[Andy99]

Yep lol…

'What Are You Believing In?': NFL Executives Rank Steelers As One Of AFC's Worst Teams

The hope for the Pittsburgh Steelers this season is that they win a playoff game for the first time since 2016. With a Super Bowl-winning quarterback in Russell Wilson, a new offensive coordinator in Arthur Smith, and an improved defense, there’s a chance it could happen. But NFL executives...

steelersdepot.com

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yep lol…

'What Are You Believing In?': NFL Executives Rank Steelers As One Of AFC's Worst Teams

The hope for the Pittsburgh Steelers this season is that they win a playoff game for the first time since 2016. With a Super Bowl-winning quarterback in Russell Wilson, a new offensive coordinator in Arthur Smith, and an improved defense, there’s a chance it could happen. But NFL executives...

steelersdepot.com

Yes they are rebuilding

 

[Andy99]

Yes they are rebuilding

I don’t think you can say you’re rebuilding when you have no young QB starting games…when you go out and pick up a former SB QB at age 35, and with 3 top D players on the back few years of their career, it seems more like you’re trying to win now than rebuild…also, going after Aiyuk is not the mark of a rebuilding team