OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

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WickedWrister

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I’m thinking they could make a run at Dak Prescott in free agency. I hope it’s Fields, but realistically he’s probably a career backup.
Yeah he's the big fish next year in FA if Jerry Jones doesn't extend him, which I think he will tbh.

Even as one of Fields biggest supporters, it was unrealistic to expect that he would get enough run this year to command such a large contract that it would prevent us from looking at QB in 2025.

I don't know why I have this feeling, but I feel like Fields will be their 2025 starter and they'll draft a QB in round 2 to sit behind him to start. For some reason, it just seems to make sense for them to do that.

I wouldn't rule out round 1. I don't know if we'll see 6 first round QB's in the draft like this past year, partly due to lesser demand, but would not shock me to see 4 or 5 go again. 7 wins has us in the ballpark of a top 10 pick.
 
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Double-Shift Lasse

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Re: one-score games... I'd be happier if it didn't always feel like they were in them on purpose. I know we're (rightly) concerned about the offense but I'm tired of pacing around the room for the last half of the fourth quarter.

(I guess beware what you ask for, as they could very easily end up on the wrong end of non-one-score games.)
 

T1K

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I don't know why I have this feeling, but I feel like Fields will be their 2025 starter and they'll draft a QB in round 2 to sit behind him to start. For some reason, it just seems to make sense for them to do that.
He makes sense as a bridge QB, but once you’re relegated as a QB2, it’s very difficult to jump back into that “franchise” role. Baker Mayfield is one of the only ones I can think of that dug himself out of that hole in recent memory.

A Darnold type of contract would make a lot of sense for Fields if they choose to extend him. Pending results ofc.
 
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xlm34

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I don't know why I have this feeling, but I feel like Fields will be their 2025 starter and they'll draft a QB in round 2 to sit behind him to start. For some reason, it just seems to make sense for them to do that.

With the admission that it’s pretty dumb to make any conclusions about the 2025 draft, this is not a highly thought of QB class right now. If that holds up after the college season, I hope they don’t take a QB just because.
 
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WickedWrister

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With the admission that it’s pretty dumb to make any conclusions about the 2025 draft, this is not a highly thought of QB class right now. If that holds up after the college season, I hope they don’t take a QB just because.
I'm not so sure. Carson Beck and Shedeur Sanders are probably Tier 1 right now. I think Quinn Ewers is too talented to not go round 1. Cam Ward, Drew Allar also looked pretty good week 1 so throw their hat into the ring for now.
 
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Empoleon8771

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I wouldn't rule out round 1. I don't know if we'll see 6 first round QB's in the draft like this past year, partly due to lesser demand, but would not shock me to see 4 or 5 go again. 7 wins has us in the ballpark of a top 10 pick.

A lot can change between now and then, but my guess is that their 1st and 2nd rounders next year are used on a QB and LE. Which ones goes in the 1st versus the 2nd depends on how the draft shakes up.

Something that makes a lot of sense to me: taking Jalen Milroe to sit behind Fields while Fields is on a Darnold or Minshew type of deal.

With the admission that it’s pretty dumb to make any conclusions about the 2025 draft, this is not a highly thought of QB class right now. If that holds up after the college season, I hope they don’t take a QB just because.

Yeah from reading the scouting profiles of QBs in this draft, it seems like there are really only 4 or 5 guys worth taking in the first 2 rounds (Sanders, Ewers, Beck, Milroe and Ward). I wouldn't want to reach for one of them, but like I just said I think Milroe sitting behind Fields would make a ton of sense.
 
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WickedWrister

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Like I don't think this class has an elite blue chip QB1 in the same tier as TLaw or Caleb Williams coming out but it's not looking like a 2022 shit kind of class for QB's.

Yeah forgot about Milroe, he's another one.
 

xlm34

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I'm not so sure. Carson Beck and Shedeur Sanders are probably Tier 1 right now. I think Quinn Ewers is too talented not go round 1. Cam Ward, Drew Allar also looked pretty good week 1 so throw their hat into the ring for now.

Yeah we’ll see what happens during the season but as of now I don’t think all that highly of Ewers or Allar.
 

T1K

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Milroe was a bad passer last year, but he looked amazing in week 1. Small sample size though. He’s definitely a guy I’m keeping my eye on.

I’m not a big fan of Ewers. He has a limited ceiling imo, not the strongest arm.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

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He makes sense as a bridge QB, but once you’re relegated as a QB2, it’s very difficult to jump back into that “franchise” role. Baker Mayfield is one of the only ones I can think of that dug himself out of that hole in recent memory.

A Darnold type of contract would make a lot of sense for Fields if they choose to extend him. Pending results ofc.
It will be interesting to see on Baker this year as his OC is now the HC in Carolina.
 
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WickedWrister

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I just mean there's what, 6-7 names right now being touted as potential first round picks? Obviously some of those guys will return to school or not perform well enough to stay in the round 1 discussion, but this surely won't be as bad as 2022 where only one guy goes in the first ~70 picks.
 

Peat

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I would far rather see the Steelers skip 2025 for QBs and field whatever trash is around with the intention of spending big to move up in 2026, then go get another long shot at QB and perpetuate the cycle.

I do very much want to see the Steelers try and take a QB who's a shot at the future sooner rather than later, but it's better to do it slowly and properly rather than quickly and badly. I don't want to drop another rookie QB into an offence full of question marks again and I'll be surprised if all the question marks are gone by next season.

I also think that if the last few drafts are anything to go by, you can basically forget taking a QB in the 2nd round (certainly past 40). If they're good enough to be worth gambling on, too many teams will be trying to take them in the 1st round for them to get deep into the 2nd.

Re: one-score games... I'd be happier if it didn't always feel like they were in them on purpose. I know we're (rightly) concerned about the offense but I'm tired of pacing around the room for the last half of the fourth quarter.

(I guess beware what you ask for, as they could very easily end up on the wrong end of non-one-score games.)

I think a former OC said they actually gameplanned around how many points they thought they'd need to score to win. Which makes a degree of sense, but really does give credence to the idea that the Steelers are trying to win one score games by design.
 

Empoleon8771

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I would far rather see the Steelers skip 2025 for QBs and field whatever trash is around with the intention of spending big to move up in 2026, then go get another long shot at QB and perpetuate the cycle.

I do very much want to see the Steelers try and take a QB who's a shot at the future sooner rather than later, but it's better to do it slowly and properly rather than quickly and badly. I don't want to drop another rookie QB into an offence full of question marks again and I'll be surprised if all the question marks are gone by next season.

I also think that if the last few drafts are anything to go by, you can basically forget taking a QB in the 2nd round (certainly past 40). If they're good enough to be worth gambling on, too many teams will be trying to take them in the 1st round for them to get deep into the 2nd.

That's why I think drafting Milroe to sit behind Fields makes a lot of sense. Milroe is super raw but he has a cannon of an arm and has similar athleticism to Fields. If you can get him at say pick 20 and draft a LE at pick 52, I'd be pretty happy with that.
 

WickedWrister

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I wouldn't discriminate between 2025 and 2026 if you really like the QB. Seriously, 7 wins this year is totally within our range of outcomes and the cost of moving up into the top 5 would not be extreme at that point.

If you're a bad team without a franchise QB, you don't pass on that opportunity.
 

MrBrightside

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I wouldn't discriminate between 2025 and 2026 if you really like the QB. Seriously, 7 wins this year is totally within our range of outcomes and the cost of moving up into the top 5 would not be extreme at that point.

If you're a bad team without a franchise QB, you don't pass on that opportunity.
Yeah the notion that you have to wait until you have a good OL, good weapons and good coordinator to actually take a QB is absurd.
 

Peat

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That's why I think drafting Milroe to sit behind Fields makes a lot of sense. Milroe is super raw but he has a cannon of an arm and has similar athleticism to Fields. If you can get him at say pick 20 and draft a LE at pick 52, I'd be pretty happy with that.

Wellp, that is absolutely a Do Not Draft report to my ears :nod:

*searches more on the guy* 32% pressure to sack ratio. Yeah, hard pass.

Beyond my QB preferences - do you really trust this team to develop this sort of guy right now?
 
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bigdaddyk88

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If you don’t have a Qb you try to win on defense and a running game. You try to limit turnovers we have not had a Qb since Ben got hurt in 2019.
 

Empoleon8771

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Wellp, that is absolutely a Do Not Draft report to my ears :nod:

*searches more on the guy* 32% pressure to sack ratio. Yeah, hard pass.

Beyond my QB preferences - do you really trust this team to develop this sort of guy right now?

I don't really know what you're expecting out of a young QB at this point. Even if the Steelers somehow had the #1 overall pick, anyone QB they take is likely either going to be raw with huge upside or safer with lower upside. The idea of getting a QB with superbowl caliber upside but without any sort of risks or flaws with his game is simply not a thing that happens much. Even Mahomes had some major question marks going into his draft year.

There have been 15 QBs taken in the top-3 in a draft in the past 10 drafts (2014-2023) and I'd say that only 3 of them (Stroud, Burrow and Lawrence) had that "high upside without major risks" label on them. And even then, Lawrence really hasn't panned out on that upside either.
 
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pistolpete11

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Is 21 and 25 that bad? If we could sign up for 21st ranked offense right now I bet we take it
I mean, that's bottom 1/3 in the league :dunno: Seems pretty bad.

If this offense played nothing but bottom third defenses all season, I think they'd do quite well, too.
 
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Peat

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Re Muth - pre SteelersDepot, the franchise tag for a tight end is currently 13.7m. I'd expect a full off-season hold in if he has a good season and you try to make him play on that, but there is an element of team control there.
 

MrBrightside

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I don't really know what you're expecting out of a young QB at this point. Even if the Steelers somehow had the #1 overall pick, anyone QB they take is likely either going to be raw with huge upside or safer with lower upside. The idea of getting a QB with superbowl caliber upside but without any sort of risks or flaws with his game is simply not a thing that happens much. Even Mahomes had some major question marks going into his draft year.

There have been 15 QBs taken in the top-3 in a draft in the past 10 drafts (2014-2023) and I'd say that only 3 of them (Stroud, Burrow and Lawrence) had that "high upside without major risks" label on them. And even then, Lawrence really hasn't panned out on that upside either.
I'm not even sure that's true as Young was the consensus #1 the year Stroud came out. There are very few guarantees - Lawrence was the most highly regarded QB in the draft since Luck and he's been ok but nothing close to what was expected.
 
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Peat

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I mean, that's bottom 1/3 in the league :dunno: Seems pretty bad.

If this offense played nothing but bottom third defenses all season, I think they'd do quite well, too.

Particularly if they were really bad against the run, allowing the team to set its strength against the opponent's weakness. Seattle were 2nd worse, the Bengals 7th.

Not like that offence looked great against Buffalo either.

I mean, maybe that offence would be better than what we'll see this year insofar as we can judge given tiny skewed samples, but the sample was absolutely skewed and that needs remembered.
 
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Empoleon8771

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I'm not even sure that's true as Young was the consensus #1 the year Stroud came out. There are very few guarantees - Lawrence was the most highly regarded QB in the draft since Luck and he's been ok but nothing close to what was expected.

I think Young was the #1 because he had an insane upside, but the Stroud prospect reports I read definitely gave the vibes of “safe with Super Bowl upside”
 

Peat

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I don't really know what you're expecting out of a young QB at this point. Even if the Steelers somehow had the #1 overall pick, anyone QB they take is likely either going to be raw with huge upside or safer with lower upside. The idea of getting a QB with superbowl caliber upside but without any sort of risks or flaws with his game is simply not a thing that happens much. Even Mahomes had some major question marks going into his draft year.

There have been 15 QBs taken in the top-3 in a draft in the past 10 drafts (2014-2023) and I'd say that only 3 of them (Stroud, Burrow and Lawrence) had that "high upside without major risks" label on them. And even then, Lawrence really hasn't panned out on that upside either.

I accept its always going to be risk vs upside.

I do not believe Fields type athleticism has any particular correlation to a QB's upside.

I do believe that a high pressure to sack ratio is an unacceptable risk barring some weird tic to their game. Of all the NFL QBs drafted since they started measuring this, Burrow is the only guy to have a high pressure to sack ratio through college and become a star. Burrow is a freak. If we'd known now what we know now about pressure to sack, he'd have been regarded as high risk. Mayfield is the next best QB with that stat. Everyone else is a bust (barring an unlikely career resurgence from Fields). That makes sense to me as the most likely reason for a QB to accrue this stat - and it is very sticky from NCAA to NFL - is they simply don't realise they're in trouble quick enough because they don't read the game quick enough, and that's a killer. Guys like Burrow who do read the game quick enough to get the right pass regularly, but take big risks to get the right pass and who don't have the athleticism to escape sacks are rare. I suspect how often he gets sacked also might have something to do with the constant injuries too.

For me, for upside, I am looking first and foremost for things that indicate they have a high football processing speed and are big moment players. To me, those are the two biggest indicators of upside. Arm talent comes next. Like athleticism if it's there, but I'm mainly looking for the strength and agility to escape sacks. JJ McCarthy had nowhere near enough passing responsibilities in college to feel safe about him not to mention he just fires it without touch a lot, but I think he showed enough big time moments and ability to handle pure passing downs that I was interested. Strong arm too. I think Bo Nix's stats and tape suggest he might have that processing too, although I'd be a bit more nervous there given his long college history. Anthony Richardson should have gone back to the NCAA and learn to pass, but the reports that he aced his S2 test and his very low pressure to sack ratio makes me intrigued in the idea he could be the next Josh Allen. All three guys have big risks, but I can see upside.

I look at Jalen Milroe and I don't see upside and I see unacceptably large risks.


edit: p.s.

a) Yeah, it might be harder to get a safer prospect than Milroe who has genuine upside at 20ish but that's why I'm all for bundling up those picks and moving up.

b) If we're looking for raw QBs with upside traits, I'm currently looking at Weigman and Allar. Young guys with raw mechanics but who display some high processing traits and numbers. Bad week to say it about Weigman! But see how the season goes. Bonus marks for Allar in terms of, if I'm looking for an athlete at QB, then the 6'5" 240+ guy who can see over the pocket and ragdoll smaller defenders is my guy.
 
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