OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

[Empoleon8771]

Your post above hits on a few things I had kind of forgotten about, including the Minkah trade. Thanks for reminding me.

But this is my overall point: why isn't it possible that after Flores got fired he got some humble pie and recognized his approach wasn't the best? He came out and said it in the recent interview re: Tua

Regarding this, something from his interview was really telling to me: Flores never once apologized to Tua for how he treated him. It was a lot of "I need to do better", but he never once apologized for how he treated him.

I'm not going to pile on Flores, especially because he's become a very good DC for the Vikings that the Vikings defensive players seem to love to play for. He also explicitly said that he needs to do better, which is good. But I fully believe he was a raging asshole during his days as HC for Miami, and the fallout from that (accusing the Dolphins of paying to lose, suing the league over racial discrimination and now this Tua thing) just makes it more obvious that he was fired with cause from the Dolphins.

Maybe I'm over simplifying but I'm inclined to treat every rumour about a guy who may be available at this point of the off-season as bogus unless there's multiple reporters going "there are definite trade talks happening". It's a horrible time to trade an important player away and to the best of my knowledge, rarely happens in the NFL.

As such, I don't think those guys are actually available without a gross overpay, and the Aiyuk offer is if anything allegedly a slight underpay. I don't think any WR2 is. I think it's Aiyuk or nothing.

Besides, if you could really get Adams for a 2nd and 3rd, then why hasn't a three team deal been done already? That solves it. Both teams allegedly looked at it. Didn't happen. Not even murmurs that it could.

Adams almost definitely costs more but yeah fair point on the rest. I think extending the logic of "if there was a guy out there you could get for a 2nd or 3rd, the 49ers would have made that trade already" is definitely a fair point to make. The question mark in all of this is the indecisiveness of the 49ers and Aiyuk.

 

[Peat]

Adams almost definitely costs more but yeah fair point on the rest. I think extending the logic of "if there was a guy out there you could get for a 2nd or 3rd, the 49ers would have made that trade already" is definitely a fair point to make. The question mark in all of this is the indecisiveness of the 49ers and Aiyuk.

Tbh now I look at it I wonder if Adams would cost more because he's 32 and has two more years left on his contract where the cap hit is 44m and 45m. Might be easy to persuade Vegas they don't want that although then the counterpoint is why would anyone else want it? That's set to be the 6th biggest cap hit in the NFL next year in all positions, 8m clear of any other other non-QB. I'm happy for the team to overspend a bit to get real difference makers but that for 33 year old Adams is, uh, probable insanity.

*note - it's possible far less of that cap hit would be paid by any team acquiring Adams in trade, because I never understand how NFL cap hits work, but good gods that cap hit is so insane in isolation I just went ahead and said it anyway*

 

[WickedWrister]

Tbh now I look at it I wonder if Adams would cost more because he's 32 and has two more years left on his contract where the cap hit is 44m and 45m. Might be easy to persuade Vegas they don't want that although then the counterpoint is why would anyone else want it? That's set to be the 6th biggest cap hit in the NFL next year in all positions, 8m clear of any other other non-QB. I'm happy for the team to overspend a bit to get real difference makers but that for 33 year old Adams is, uh, probable insanity.

*note - it's possible far less of that cap hit would be paid by any team acquiring Adams in trade, because I never understand how NFL cap hits work, but good gods that cap hit is so insane in isolation I just went ahead and said it anyway*

Adams has no guaranteed money in those years, they're just in there to inflate the AAV. If any team trades for him, I imagine they work out a restructure beforehand.

 

[JTG]

Chargers are releasing Max Dugan. I really liked him at TCU. Could be a nice developmental arm. He can ball.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[TooManyHumans]

I don't care about Flores at all but if we are going to play the "what has he ever won" game with him, we should also apply it to Tua, who was terrible in his one playoff game.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[Peat]

Didn't realise the Eagles needed more receivers.

Didn't realise the Commanders needed less receivers, unless...

Also, my bad on telling @Empoleon8771 nobody was going to trade a good WR right now. Which, barring possible style things I'm not aware of, raises a big question on where the Steelers/49ers were during this.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Where are the Eagles going to put all their receivers?

 

[WickedWrister]

Didn't realise the Eagles needed more receivers.

Didn't realise the Commanders needed less receivers, unless...

Also, my bad on telling @Empoleon8771 nobody was going to trade a good WR right now. Which, barring possible style things I'm not aware of, raises a big question on where the Steelers/49ers were during this.

Inter division too. I have to believe neither us nor the 49ers were reasonably close to this offer.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

This is before Dotson.

A.J. Brown	11	WR	6-1	226	27	6	Mississippi
Parris Campbell	80	WR	6-0	208	27	6	Ohio State
Britain Covey	18	WR	5-8	173	27	3	Utah
Jacob Harris	46o	WR	6-5	211	27	3	UCF
Griffin Hebert	48	WR	6-1	239	25	1	Louisiana Tech
Joseph Ngata	86	WR	6-3	217	23	1	Clemson
John Ross	83	WR	5-11	190	28	6	Washington
Ainias Smith	82	WR	5-9	176	23	R	Texas A&M
DeVonta Smith	6	WR	6-0	170	25	4	Alabama
Austin Watkins Jr.	41o	WR	6-3	210	26	1	UAB
Johnny Wilson	89	WR	6-6	238	23	R	Florida State

 

[MrBrightside]

The difference in perception of this coaching staff between national and local folks remains stark. ESPN ranks the Steelers 7th:

7. Pittsburgh Steelers​

Head coach: Mike Tomlin
Offensive coordinator: Arthur Smith
Defensive coordinator: Teryl Austin

Without question, this is the most difficult team to place. I am positive Tomlin is a good head coach. Nobody in the league squeezes more blood from tougher stones than Tomlin, who has somehow not had a losing season during the worst quarterback carousel I can ever remember: late-career chuck-and-duck Ben Roethlisberger, backups Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges splitting time and resounding first-round bust Kenny Pickett spelled by Mitchell Trubisky. Much Tomlin criticism is just incognito praise. Yes, the Steelers have lost their past five playoff games (bad), but the fact they've made it to the playoffs with these preposterously bad offenses is a testament to Tomlin (good).

How much credit can you dole out to the head coach for enduring this nightmare when he is, in part, at fault for authoring it? Tomlin, who has a defensive background, has struggled to find a good offensive coordinator. His past few attempts: Matt Canada, Randy Fichtner, Todd Haley. No wonder they haven't developed a quarterback yet. And if you can't find a way to get a good offense onto the field -- whether with a big quarterback move, a big coaching move, or both -- your ceiling is capped as an NFL coach.


I don't love the quarterback room, but I do think Smith is a good offensive coordinator. His time as a head coach in Atlanta was marred with bad personnel management and horrible situational football, but as an offensive coach? Let's not forget the 2020 Titans' offense that produced the fifth-best season (by expected points added per play) since 2000. Smith's offenses excel in the running game, where Pittsburgh is already built for strength, and a heavy dose of play-action pass helps lift shaky quarterbacks. I like him and Austin, who has produced two over-performing defenses in two seasons as the defensive coordinator in Pittsburgh. This is a strong staff.

 

[T1K]

The Steelers should’ve been in on this. Dotson is one of the more surprising busts I can remember. I felt like he had a really high floor and was a Diontae Johnson clone.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Gotta wonder if Washington is now gonna go after Aiyuk.

 

[Factorial]

Gotta wonder if Washington is now gonna go after Aiyuk.

Yes.

 

[Peat]

Inter division too. I have to believe neither us nor the 49ers were reasonably close to this offer.

You've got to think that Washington's willingness to move on from Dotson would have come up in any trade talks over Aiyuk too.

 

[Captain Hook]

Gotta wonder if Washington is now gonna go after Aiyuk.

Not sure. Dotson has been in the doghouse with Washington lately anyway. Seemed very likely he was getting shipped out no matter what happens with Aiyuk.

You also would think San Francisco would want Dotson included if they were doing a trade with Washington. I still think Aiyuk most likely re-signs with San Francisco or gets traded here last minute if San Francisco just can't work things out with him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also, my bad on telling @Empoleon8771 nobody was going to trade a good WR right now. Which, barring possible style things I'm not aware of, raises a big question on where the Steelers/49ers were during this.

To be fair, I don't know that I'd call Dotson "good"

 

[Peat]

To be fair, I don't know that I'd call Dotson "good"

His numbers seem pretty decent given Washington's recent QB situation. Maybe they're deceptive and I'm a fool but I'd be okay with him as a low end WR2.

 

[Night Shift]

The Steelers should’ve been in on this. Dotson is blah blah blah blah, I'm the General of the Tomlinite army.

They should've been?????

 

[bigdaddyk88]

People didn’t want DJ but are made we didn’t trade for the wish version

 

[Peat]

People didn’t want DJ but are made we didn’t trade for the wish version

a) Having a guy who's made himself persona non grata in your locker room and giving a fresh start to a guy who's made himself persona non grata in a different locker room are two very different things

b) People didn't want DJ when they assumed the Steelers would then go and get a reliable looking guy to take his place. That didn't happen so now standards are a little lower.

c) Nobody's mad they didn't get him. Just a bit nonplussed. And not even about the Steelers not getting him, although that might have worked too. If one of the hold ups to the 49ers deal was giving them a WR, particularly one who could work the outside (that's Dotson's pre-draft report, no idea if it held up), and Dotson was available...? We'll never know why, but it's a headscratcher. Maybe the 49ers hate his guts, who knows.

 

[ChaosAgent]

a) Having a guy who's made himself persona non grata in your locker room and giving a fresh start to a guy who's made himself persona non grata in a different locker room are two very different things

b) People didn't want DJ when they assumed the Steelers would then go and get a reliable looking guy to take his place. That didn't happen so now standards are a little lower.

c) Nobody's mad they didn't get him. Just a bit nonplussed. And not even about the Steelers not getting him, although that might have worked too. If one of the hold ups to the 49ers deal was giving them a WR, particularly one who could work the outside (that's Dotson's pre-draft report, no idea if it held up), and Dotson was available...? We'll never know why, but it's a headscratcher. Maybe the 49ers hate his guts, who knows.

I don't think DJ was nearly as maligned in the locker room as you are saying.

He drove me nuts at times, but DJ got open. Job #1 of a WR. We will miss him.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

a) Having a guy who's made himself persona non grata in your locker room and giving a fresh start to a guy who's made himself persona non grata in a different locker room are two very different things

b) People didn't want DJ when they assumed the Steelers would then go and get a reliable looking guy to take his place. That didn't happen so now standards are a little lower.

c) Nobody's mad they didn't get him. Just a bit nonplussed. And not even about the Steelers not getting him, although that might have worked too. If one of the hold ups to the 49ers deal was giving them a WR, particularly one who could work the outside (that's Dotson's pre-draft report, no idea if it held up), and Dotson was available...? We'll never know why, but it's a headscratcher. Maybe the 49ers hate his guts, who knows.

DJ just wanted an extension he wasn’t hated in the locker room once it became obvious he wasn’t gonna get one he asked for a trade
He is the anti 49ers receiver he doesn’t block in the running game and drops passes. He was struggling to beat out Amni brown and Zackerhus