OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

[Peat]

Feel free to read that first sentence as "wanting rid of a guy who you believe to be a detrimental presence on the team you support and giving a fresh start to a guy who you believe was a detrimental presence on a different team are two very different things" then.

Although I still believe the team didn't particularly want him around. The amount of smoke and actual fire that he was annoying and their willingness to trade him makes it all too likely to me.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[Empoleon8771]

View attachment 902646

I'm so tired grandpa

 

[xlm34]

I’ve already accepted Aiyuk is staying with the niners please don’t pull me back into that saga

 

[WickedWrister]

I'm so tired grandpa

I’ve already accepted Aiyuk is staying with the niners please don’t pull me back into that saga

 

[Peat]

(also Fautanu says he'll be fit week 1)

 

[Empoleon8771]

He's doing a bit of trolling

 

[Coastal Kev]

I was on board with trading for Aiyuk. But after seeing the state of affairs, it's time to punt on trading future assets. Sadly, I think the Steelers know they are on the tipping point of horrific season and think that Aiyuk could save the face. They'll literally trade the future away for another phony 9-10 win season.

Should have dumped Tomlin, but 3rd generation Rooney is a disaster.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don’t think Tomlin is capable of having a 5 or 6 win season

 

[Coastal Kev]

One thing I noticed is how all of the good offensive coaches run those 5-8 yard crossing routes. Such an easy pitch and catch and the qb gets rid of the ball quick. Why is it the Steelers don't employ these????

I'm gettin angry again

 

[bigdaddyk88]

One thing I noticed is how all of the good offensive coaches run those 5-8 yard crossing routes. Such an easy pitch and catch and the qb gets rid of the ball quick. Why is it the Steelers don't employ these????

I'm gettin angry again

They called a bunch of mesh against Buffalo Justin never threw it over the middle of the field
Bills played tons of zone to keep him from running

 

[Peat]

I don’t think Tomlin is capable of having a 5 or 6 win season

Calling that a .35 winning season for simplicity -

All of Reid, Belichick, Noll, Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh have at least one. Most have multiple (all if you expand it to .375 i.e. a 6 win season in a 16 game schedule). That's 19 combined super bowl wins.

Every coach can have that season and will if they go long enough. Just takes some bad luck or a weak roster. You can argue Tomlin's done great to avoid it post-Ben and it's certainly not nothing, but he's also had the most expensive defence in the NFL led by one sure-fire HoFer and two maybes. The roster's lopsided but it's not weak. He's done a good job, maybe a great one, but it's not some miracle that suggests he's immune to the fate of the most successful to ever do it.

 

[Night Shift]

I don’t think Tomlin is capable of having a 5 or 6 win season

Don't worry, its coming. Maybe not this year but it's coming. He will be in a position of weakness because he never had to go through it and won't know what to. He won't be able to word salad his way out of it, He'll probably get mouthy toward the media and lose his cool.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Don't worry, its coming. Maybe not this year but it's coming. He will be in a position of weakness because he never had to go through it and won't know what to. He won't be able to word salad his way out of it, He'll probably get mouthy toward the media and lose his cool.

Odds are it will but nearly every QB that has started for him is at least 500. He found a way to win with jones dixon and duck Mitch is tge only one with a losing record

 

[Night Shift]

Odds are it will but nearly every QB that has started for him is at least 500. He found a way to win with jones dixon and duck Mitch is tge only one with a losing record

Is this a story you'll tell your great grandkids?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Is this a story you'll tell your great grandkids?

As we entered the Stewart Tomzack era again you mean. I don’t even have kids so probably not lol

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The difference in perception of this coaching staff between national and local folks remains stark. ESPN ranks the Steelers 7th:

7. Pittsburgh Steelers​

Head coach: Mike Tomlin
Offensive coordinator: Arthur Smith
Defensive coordinator: Teryl Austin

Without question, this is the most difficult team to place. I am positive Tomlin is a good head coach. Nobody in the league squeezes more blood from tougher stones than Tomlin, who has somehow not had a losing season during the worst quarterback carousel I can ever remember: late-career chuck-and-duck Ben Roethlisberger, backups Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges splitting time and resounding first-round bust Kenny Pickett spelled by Mitchell Trubisky. Much Tomlin criticism is just incognito praise. Yes, the Steelers have lost their past five playoff games (bad), but the fact they've made it to the playoffs with these preposterously bad offenses is a testament to Tomlin (good).

How much credit can you dole out to the head coach for enduring this nightmare when he is, in part, at fault for authoring it? Tomlin, who has a defensive background, has struggled to find a good offensive coordinator. His past few attempts: Matt Canada, Randy Fichtner, Todd Haley. No wonder they haven't developed a quarterback yet. And if you can't find a way to get a good offense onto the field -- whether with a big quarterback move, a big coaching move, or both -- your ceiling is capped as an NFL coach.


I don't love the quarterback room, but I do think Smith is a good offensive coordinator. His time as a head coach in Atlanta was marred with bad personnel management and horrible situational football, but as an offensive coach? Let's not forget the 2020 Titans' offense that produced the fifth-best season (by expected points added per play) since 2000. Smith's offenses excel in the running game, where Pittsburgh is already built for strength, and a heavy dose of play-action pass helps lift shaky quarterbacks. I like him and Austin, who has produced two over-performing defenses in two seasons as the defensive coordinator in Pittsburgh. This is a strong staff.

How does a HC, going into his 18th(?) year with a team, get credit for "making lemonade out of lemons". Doesn't Tomlin have to have some culpability in the state of the roster at this point?

No one gets more credit for [barely] overcoming the adversity he himself created. Mike Tomlin: a genius at making mediocre players slightly less mediocre.

Hard to hand him prizes for overcoming adversity once you've realized he's responsible for 80+% of the adversity (I'll give some to injury). Not even worth saying that lists like this are why AR2 will never fire him.

 

[Night Shift]

As we entered the Stewart Tomzack era again you mean. I don’t even have kids so probably not lol

Well if in the future it'll be that 1 magic year when Howard the Duck Hodges and Rudy Red Rose took the reigns.....

 

[Night Shift]

How does a HC, going into his 18th(?) year with a team, get credit for "making lemonade out of lemons". Doesn't Tomlin have to have some culpability in the state of the roster at this point?

No one gets more credit for [barely] overcoming the adversity he himself created. Mike Tomlin: a genius at making mediocre players slightly less mediocre.

Hard to hand him prizes for overcoming adversity once you've realized he's responsible for 80+% of the adversity (I'll give some to injury). Not even worth saying that lists like this are why AR2 will never fire him.

Probably because its not just any lemonade it's Mike's Hard Lemonade. That automatically gets him in the top 10.

In all seriousness though, I've asked many Tomlin fans over the years what makes him a great coach? and even they don't know. You never get a straight answer, even from his biggest fans.

 

[JTG]

I liked Dotson a lot in his draft year. Kinda wondering if a different situation resets him and he maybe turns things around. I thought he was going to be a solid pro.

The difference in perception of this coaching staff between national and local folks remains stark. ESPN ranks the Steelers 7th:

7. Pittsburgh Steelers​

Head coach: Mike Tomlin
Offensive coordinator: Arthur Smith
Defensive coordinator: Teryl Austin

Without question, this is the most difficult team to place. I am positive Tomlin is a good head coach. Nobody in the league squeezes more blood from tougher stones than Tomlin, who has somehow not had a losing season during the worst quarterback carousel I can ever remember: late-career chuck-and-duck Ben Roethlisberger, backups Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges splitting time and resounding first-round bust Kenny Pickett spelled by Mitchell Trubisky. Much Tomlin criticism is just incognito praise. Yes, the Steelers have lost their past five playoff games (bad), but the fact they've made it to the playoffs with these preposterously bad offenses is a testament to Tomlin (good).

How much credit can you dole out to the head coach for enduring this nightmare when he is, in part, at fault for authoring it? Tomlin, who has a defensive background, has struggled to find a good offensive coordinator. His past few attempts: Matt Canada, Randy Fichtner, Todd Haley. No wonder they haven't developed a quarterback yet. And if you can't find a way to get a good offense onto the field -- whether with a big quarterback move, a big coaching move, or both -- your ceiling is capped as an NFL coach.


I don't love the quarterback room, but I do think Smith is a good offensive coordinator. His time as a head coach in Atlanta was marred with bad personnel management and horrible situational football, but as an offensive coach? Let's not forget the 2020 Titans' offense that produced the fifth-best season (by expected points added per play) since 2000. Smith's offenses excel in the running game, where Pittsburgh is already built for strength, and a heavy dose of play-action pass helps lift shaky quarterbacks. I like him and Austin, who has produced two over-performing defenses in two seasons as the defensive coordinator in Pittsburgh. This is a strong staff.

"Getting more blood from tougher stones" THAT HE f***ING CREATES!

 

[bigdaddyk88]

How does a HC, going into his 18th(?) year with a team, get credit for "making lemonade out of lemons". Doesn't Tomlin have to have some culpability in the state of the roster at this point?

No one gets more credit for [barely] overcoming the adversity he himself created. Mike Tomlin: a genius at making mediocre players slightly less mediocre.

Hard to hand him prizes for overcoming adversity once you've realized he's responsible for 80+% of the adversity (I'll give some to injury). Not even worth saying that lists like this are why AR2 will never fire him.

I thought Khan was the gm and Colbert before him.
Smith has made it clear tomlin lets him have complete control of the offense and we brought in his guys from Atlanta.
Theres tons of teams who struggle with finding the Qb that’s what Smith Baker Darnold are all starting this season and we have had a bottom 5 Qb since 2019 they’re trying to build up the offense in case Fields is our Darnold in 25

 

[Peat]

Tbf, that ESPN article acknowledges that Tomlin is an architect of his own woes. It just seems to be written in the belief that in hiring Smith, Tomlin has finally escaped the problems he's been causing for himself.

Time will tell on that. I am a big believer that the Smith hire will either mend or fatally damage Tomlin's current reputation. Either Smith produces big, the Steelers succeed, and the Canada years can be written off as one of those things - or he doesn't, that bad year will come sooner or later, and it will be hard to come to any other conclusion other than Tomlin's presence is bad for OCs.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I thought Khan was the gm and Colbert before him.
Smith has made it clear tomlin lets him have complete control of the offense and we brought in his guys from Atlanta.
Theres tons of teams who struggle with finding the Qb that’s what Smith Baker Darnold are all starting this season and we have had a bottom 5 Qb since 2019 they’re trying to build up the offense in case Fields is our Darnold in 25

Smith also knows that he needs to tow the line bc it's his first year and he's trying to ingratiate himself with his new boss. He'll say the sky is polka dot if it's highly suggested by Tomlin.

I'll again say that Tomlin doesn't know jack about offense. It's nice that after about 10 years he finally found a competent OC.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Smith also knows that he needs to tow the line bc it's his first year and he's trying to ingratiate himself with his new boss. He'll say the sky is polka dot if it's highly suggested by Tomlin.

I'll again say that Tomlin doesn't know jack about offense. It's nice that after about 10 years he finally found a competent OC.

He had BA and Haley

 

[Coastal Kev]

Calling that a .35 winning season for simplicity -

All of Reid, Belichick, Noll, Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh have at least one. Most have multiple (all if you expand it to .375 i.e. a 6 win season in a 16 game schedule). That's 19 combined super bowl wins.

Every coach can have that season and will if they go long enough. Just takes some bad luck or a weak roster. You can argue Tomlin's done great to avoid it post-Ben and it's certainly not nothing, but he's also had the most expensive defence in the NFL led by one sure-fire HoFer and two maybes. The roster's lopsided but it's not weak. He's done a good job, maybe a great one, but it's not some miracle that suggests he's immune to the fate of the most successful to ever do it.

Tomlin has not done a "great job". Slightly above average, that's it.