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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

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JTG said:
Stewart is a guy that I feel could fall to the 2nd round because he's just lke Leal before him...has everything you want physically, but there are a lot of warts. He pans out, he's a stud. That being said, we can't afford a Jarvis Jones/Artie Burns bomb right now.
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yeah, i don't like the fact he didn't play with his hand on the ground if that's where we intend to line him up (5 tech).
seems like there would have to be a learning period and we have seen whats happened to guys like Leal and zig hood (tweeners 4-3- 3-4)

there's another guy being mocked right in the same area that fits the 5 tech type we look for. walter nolan. miss st i think.
 
The description of Stewart is a massive project who needs a lot of development is enough to scare me off the guy right now.

Also re the whole draft a QB every year thing - it doesn't make sense to me as QBs need time and you can't have 5 QBs on your roster all developing. Well, you can, but it's not going to make anyone's life easier. Every 2-3 years, sure. But not every year.

There's a difference too between taking guys for picks that indicate they'll be giving this guy a go as a starter if things go well, and for late round picks where they block nothing. A 3rd round picker is more the former the latter and I don't think Milroe merits that.
 
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lastcupever75 said:
kid, just go back and watch the full games instead of reading off a stat sheet. if you don't have them on dvd i'm sure you can find full telecasts on youtube

SB 40 run
offense scored 31 pts vs cincy. 3 TD passes

indy - 2TDs in the first 13 minutes of the game. then cowher took the air out of the ball. 12th passing attempt on the 2nd TD,
threw the ball only 12 more times the rest of the game

denver - 34 point total. 24-3 at the half, game pretty much over after 2nd TD pass. then ran one in to ice the game in the 4th after denver closes the lead to 27-17

for some perspective ben was 23 years old at the time'
at that age brady was riding the bench as a rookie with NE
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Yes and what did the bills do they literally got up 21-10 at half and took the air out of the ball.
 
lastcupever75 said:
been trying for what seems forever to convince some of the nuthuggers of the same thing.
they think a coach for 18 years has little input on the roster
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The tide is turning… slowly… but Tomlin is finally starting to get called out for what he is.

bigdaddyk88 said:
Yes and what did the bills do they literally got up 21-10 at half and took the air out of the ball.
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Ok and…?

Anyone who watched the ‘05 playoffs and has an ounce of a memory knows Roth is the main reason why they won those three games on the road.

Roth brought them back agt Cincy when Kitna was carving up their amazing defense in the first half… a D that ppl claimed carried Ben… sure.

Agt Indy and Den Cowher played turtle ball in the second half after Roth got the lead, because that was Cowher doing Cowher things again.

Roth had 7 TD and 1 pick in those three games, which are boss numbers and even more extraordinary when you know Cowher took the air out of the ball.

Zero doubt he would have put up monster numbers if Cowher kept his foot on the gas all game.
 
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JTG said:
Stewart is a guy that I feel could fall to the 2nd round because he's just lke Leal before him...has everything you want physically, but there are a lot of warts. He pans out, he's a stud. That being said, we can't afford a Jarvis Jones/Artie Burns bomb right now.
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I don't think it's Khan's mo but anyone else feel this is a good year to trade back from the 1st rounder? Hopefully pickup another 2nd plus?
 
I know that this team needs a Heyward successor but using a 1st rounder on a DL when you still have Heyward seems unnecessary.

If by “Heyward successor” you mean “Ogubjobi replacement that will eventually lead the DL”, I’m fine with it.
 
Ulf5 said:
I don't think it's Khan's mo but anyone else feel this is a good year to trade back from the 1st rounder? Hopefully pickup another 2nd plus?
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He might do it. He's traded back once already and was very vocal about taking offers for pick 33 last year.

What I want, which seems very improbable, is to trade this year's 1st for one next year and a 3rd/4th.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
I know that this team needs a Heyward successor but using a 1st rounder on a DL when you still have Heyward seems unnecessary.

If by “Heyward successor” you mean “Ogubjobi replacement that will eventually lead the DL”, I’m fine with it.
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Well, yeah, I think those two go hand in hand.

I also think you're

a) Being unnecessarily short termist and focusing on max impact next year rather than what set of picks make the Steelers strongest three years from now. A long term view where teams look to replace players ahead of time and bring guys on slowly not only ensures smooth transitions, particularly in non plug and play positions (like DL), but also allows the team to take the best value when offered.

b) Maybe unduly discounting the problems that this team's DTs are giving them. For a team built around pressure up front, the 4 man rush, and physicality, the DTs are very thin behind Heyward.
 
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Peat said:
Well, yeah, I think those two go hand in hand.

I also think you're

a) Being unnecessarily short termist and focusing on max impact next year rather than what set of picks make the Steelers strongest three years from now. A long term view where teams look to replace players ahead of time and bring guys on slowly not only ensures smooth transitions, particularly in non plug and play positions (like DL), but also allows the team to take the best value when offered.

b) Maybe unduly discounting the problems that this team's DTs are giving them. For a team built around pressure up front, the 4 man rush, and physicality, the DTs are very thin behind Heyward.
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That is fundamentally how the NFL draft works, though.

Beyond that, I also think Benton is good so I don’t see how their DL is super thin beyond Heyward.
 
Peat said:
The description of Stewart is a massive project who needs a lot of development is enough to scare me off the guy right now.

Also re the whole draft a QB every year thing - it doesn't make sense to me as QBs need time and you can't have 5 QBs on your roster all developing. Well, you can, but it's not going to make anyone's life easier. Every 2-3 years, sure. But not every year.

There's a difference too between taking guys for picks that indicate they'll be giving this guy a go as a starter if things go well, and for late round picks where they block nothing. A 3rd round picker is more the former the latter and I don't think Milroe merits that.
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Leal read the exact same way. Leal preseason in his draft year was a top 5 prospect. I think we got him in the 4th round? They had him as a 2nd round pre-draft. I definitely could see the same happen to Stewart, especially if he doesn't work out well at his Pro Day.

Teams absolutely do not have to take DL or RB high in this draft. There will be starters getting picked up in the 3rd and 4th round no problem.
 
I’m very anti tweener when it comes to draft prospects. Even the highly ranked prospects don’t seem to work out how people hoped. Van Ness was another guy that was between positions and he’s been pretty invisible for the Packers.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
I know that this team needs a Heyward successor but using a 1st rounder on a DL when you still have Heyward seems unnecessary.

If by “Heyward successor” you mean “Ogubjobi replacement that will eventually lead the DL”, I’m fine with it.
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Benton is Larry Replacement. There’s a guy in in Oregon Harrmon. Daniel Jerimiah said he was a clone of Cam. Larry might be a cut candidate
 
As far as DL goes, I'd take Walter Nolan. I think he has the makings of a beast 3-4 DL.

xlm34 said:
I’m very anti tweener when it comes to draft prospects. Even the highly ranked prospects don’t seem to work out how people hoped. Van Ness was another guy that was between positions and he’s been pretty invisible for the Packers.
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Yeah, he needed time, but he either needs to lose weight or gain weight. He plays at like 285 - he's not heavy enough against the run and he's not fast enough against the pass. Be 260 or 300.

bigdaddyk88 said:
Benton is Larry Replacement. There’s a guy in in Oregon Harrmon. Daniel Jerimiah said he was a clone of Cam. Larry might be a cut candidate
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I like the dude Robinson out of Nebraska. Mills out of Notre Dame is interesting also.
 
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Peat said:
He might do it. He's traded back once already and was very vocal about taking offers for pick 33 last year.

What I want, which seems very improbable, is to trade this year's 1st for one next year and a 3rd/4th.
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I highly doubt they trade completely out of the 1st but definitely would welcome a small trade down and picking up an additional 3rd or 4th this season

Robinson is a NT Harmon isn’t a true NT i am all for double dipping on DL like we did with OL last season. It’s why I wish they trade Issac for mid pick
 
Empoleon8771 said:
That is fundamentally how the NFL draft works, though.

Beyond that, I also think Benton is good so I don’t see how their DL is super thin beyond Heyward.
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Not always. Eagles and Ravens are both good examples of teams that often draft guys a year before they're needed.

Also Benton's good. He's not great. Ogunjobi is acceptable rather than good. Both were there when the run defence got gashed last year without Heyward on the field.

JTG said:
Leal read the exact same way. Leal preseason in his draft year was a top 5 prospect. I think we got him in the 4th round? They had him as a 2nd round pre-draft. I definitely could see the same happen to Stewart, especially if he doesn't work out well at his Pro Day.

Teams absolutely do not have to take DL or RB high in this draft. There will be starters getting picked up in the 3rd and 4th round no problem.
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3rd rounder.

I think you're optimistic to think there'll be 3/4 round DL starters. There might be a real DL heavy 2nd round, but I don't see DL who have it lasting long. Not with Henry and Barkley running riot this year.
 
Peat said:
Not always. Eagles and Ravens are both good examples of teams that often draft guys a year before they're needed.

Also Benton's good. He's not great. Ogunjobi is acceptable rather than good. Both were there when the run defence got gashed last year without Heyward on the field.



3rd rounder.

I think you're optimistic to think there'll be 3/4 round DL starters. There might be a real DL heavy 2nd round, but I don't see DL who have it lasting long. Not with Henry and Barkley running riot this year.
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There are so many linemen, it's almost impossible for all of t hem to go before the 3rd round, and a lot grade out there or better.
 
Using hindsight, the numbers still would have never worked out in our favor, but we should have re-signed Javon Hargrave after his rookie deal. If they kept Hargrave and Cam together it would have made this run defense infinitely better. Some bored Saturday analysis has lead me here -

PositionPlayerAge
Defensive End (DE)Cameron Heyward35
Defensive Tackle (DT)Javon Hargrave31
Defensive End (DE)Stephon Tuitt31
Outside Linebacker (OLB)T.J. Watt30
Middle Linebacker (MLB)Ryan Shazier32
Middle Linebacker (MLB)Elandon Roberts30
Outside Linebacker (OLB)Alex Highsmith27
Cornerback (CB)Joey Porter Jr.24
Free Safety (FS)Minkah Fitzpatrick28
Strong Safety (SS)DeShon Elliott27
 
Peat said:
How many starter quality DL do you think are in this draft?
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Depends on the scheme, but I would venture to say there are more 3-techs in this draft than I have ever seen. A 3-tech is basically your do-it-all, DT/NT. Massive humans that can flat out run. The freaks coming out of Michigan's defenses the last few years are unreal.

I think there are probably 15-20 guys who could legit be starters. The guy I like...Robinson out of Nebraska...he's going to be a mid round pick. One of the analysts on ESPN said that there will be RBs in this draft that are not drafted that end up starting for teams down the line because this class is that good.

This is literally the COVID prospect jam working its way out the next 3 years.
 
JTG said:
Depends on the scheme, but I would venture to say there are more 3-techs in this draft than I have ever seen. A 3-tech is basically your do-it-all, DT/NT. Massive humans that can flat out run. The freaks coming out of Michigan's defenses the last few years are unreal.

I think there are probably 15-20 guys who could legit be starters. The guy I like...Robinson out of Nebraska...he's going to be a mid round pick. One of the analysts on ESPN said that there will be RBs in this draft that are not drafted that end up starting for teams down the line because this class is that good.

This is literally the COVID prospect jam working its way out the next 3 years.
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I'm ignoring the RB part because those dudes falling to Rs 3/4 is nothing new.

But the DL stuff, I'm skeptical because there's never enough of them for anyone. I'm skeptical that the NFL won't respond by glutting themselves on the dudes there, and skeptical of the idea that any draft has 15-20 genuine starter prospects there. Not just "has the athletic profile, see if you can make something of him" but actually straight up on a starter trajectory types in terms of production, technique and the rest of it. Yeah, maybe a mass of raw material means you can find a guy in the 3rd/4th... but that's true most drafts of almost all positions.
 
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