OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

[xlm34]

Well OG was arguably already a need but if there’s truth that McCormick refused to suit up it might be a bigger fish they go after. He’s not good enough to avoid the doghouse.

 

[Peat]

Re all the talk of offensive expectations...

Yeah, I never expected the offence to be great.

16th for points scored is arguably a bit of an overachievement. 22nd for offensive touchdowns per game at 2.1 is more like expectations (and a reasonable tick up from last year's gruesome 1.7 per game, although still not good).

However, some parts of the execution leave me concerned. The failures on 4th down (which stats suggest is more frequent than not with Arthur Smith). Being 29th in the league with 48.21% conversion for red zone touchdowns (which was a problem in Atlanta, albeit a massive strength in Tennessee). The constant failure to get the team to understand their blocking assignments. That team being a worse rushing team than last year just shouldn't have happened. I guess might as well give him a second year to show what he can do with more experience with the unit and hopefully more talent if he's not going himself, but there's things going wrong beyond talent.

Still, it's nothing like a team that rests everything on its defence getting blown out like that, no.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd like to get more information on that McCormick thing before I complain too much. You can portray it as "he refused to play with a brace" just like you can portray it as "he was too injured to play and the brace wouldn't have been enough".

 

[Peat]

I'd like to get more information on that McCormick thing before I complain too much. You can portray it as "he refused to play with a brace" just like you can portray it as "he was too injured to play and the brace wouldn't have been enough".

My application of Occam's razor says we don't hear about this in this way unless someone thought he wasn't too injured.

But they might be an idiot.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

My application of Occam's razor says we don't hear about this in this way unless someone thought he wasn't too injured.

But they might be an idiot.

He said himself last week he wasn’t going to play with a club. If he couldn’t grip he wasn’t playing

 

[Empoleon8771]

My application of Occam's razor says we don't hear about this in this way unless someone thought he wasn't too injured.

But they might be an idiot.

Yeah and I'm willing to bet this is a case where someone thought McCormick should have been able to play but McCormick didn't agree.

If McCormick doesn't feel like he can play effectively with a brace, I'd rather him say that and not play than play and get abused.

 

[Peat]

He said himself last week he wasn’t going to play with a club. If he couldn’t grip he wasn’t playing

Good to know, but still doesn't answer the question about just how badly hurt he was and the rest of it.

I do have to add that I think Spencer Anderson with two good hands is probably better than McCormick with only one anyway.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Tomlin is kind of the old trope about grabbing the bull by the horns.

His 'system' creates wins, enough to be mediocre but not to ever actually win anything. I am sure that he knows this.

As long as he continues he remains the genius who never had a losing season. Really, it is the main thing that he has going right now.

Opening up the offense is the only way to actually have a chance to win it all. He likely knows this as well.

But, if he does that he more likely has a losing season instead. And then what is he?

Bull by the horns. You can't hold on forever, but you dare not let go.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

I think it’s as simple as AR2 takes pride in the org only ever having 3 coaches in the modern era, he’s also clearly afraid to make a change out of fear the team could start to have losing seasons.

He lives in his fears like Tomlin.

I also highly suspect that after 18 seasons he’s gotten way too close to Tomlin and doesn’t want to fire his friend - this more than anything is likely the biggest issue.



I’m not embarrassed.

I guess if I paid money for season tickets, gear, etc or I might be, but I haven’t spent a dime that will go in AR2’s pocket in many years.

I know he indirectly makes money because I watch the NFL, but that goes for all owners really.

Ultimately, I’ve started to enjoy watching Tomlin’s smug ass try to explain away with his idiotic sayings why his teams are like watching Groundhogs Day.

This year we get:

“It’s not their bag man, it’s my bag man!”

That’s so groovy, man!

In terms of having losing seasons if Tomlin weren't around; they do have some talent; they obviously need more of it, but there are pieces there. If they guy they would hire isn't a complete moron (and is allowed to hire a competent coaching staff;, i.e. not forced to keep certain coaches like Tomlin was), he should be able to get something out of them. I get that Art II has probably become close with Tomlin as a friend, and is reluctant to move on from him, but at some point, you have to make hard decisions about what's best for the organization and franchise going forward. Art II has been unwilling/unable to see this. Tomlin's best before date as the Steelers head coach has long since expired.

Maybe "embarrassed" was the wrong choice of word. I'll still follow this team regardless of who the HC is. It's just that it's frustrating to see the organization keep doing the same things over and over but never address its real issues. They are stuck in the past and they only think in the short term. There is no long term vision for this franchise going forward. Hope is neither a vision, plan nor strategy.

I haven't paid much attention to Tomlin's press conferences in recent years; you pretty much know what he's going to stay before it starts. Self-awareness/introspection are not his strong suits. Lol Just more "We're disappointed in the results of today's game"; 'We need to be better"; "We'll leave no stone unturned". Blah blah blah. Maybe he's coming up with new material... LOL

 

[Pens x]

Austin and Tomlin are portrayed as very stupid in the Hard Knocks show on HBO.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

In terms of having losing seasons if Tomlin weren't around; they do have some talent; they obviously need more of it, but there are pieces there. If they guy they would hire isn't a complete moron (and is allowed to hire a competent coaching staff;, i.e. not forced to keep certain coaches like Tomlin was), he should be able to get something out of them. I get that Art II has probably become close with Tomlin as a friend, and is reluctant to move on from him, but at some point, you have to make hard decisions about what's best for the organization and franchise going forward. Art II has been unwilling/unable to see this. Tomlin's best before date as the Steelers head coach has long since expired.

Maybe "embarrassed" was the wrong choice of word. I'll still follow this team regardless of who the HC is. It's just that it's frustrating to see the organization keep doing the same things over and over but never address its real issues. They are stuck in the past and they only think in the short term. There is no long term vision for this franchise going forward. Hope is neither a vision, plan nor strategy.

I haven't paid much attention to Tomlin's press conferences in recent years; you pretty much know what he's going to stay before it starts. Self-awareness/introspection are not his strong suits. Lol Just more "We're disappointed in the results of today's game"; 'We need to be better"; "We'll leave no stone unturned". Blah blah blah. Maybe he's coming up with new material... LOL

If you have some losing seasons, it’s not the end of the world.

The last time this org had a losing season, they ended up with a franchise QB.

Ya it’s not always going to work out that way, but being mediocre in perpetuity gets this org nowhere.

They aren’t even good at being mediocre - because Tomlin Purgatory means annual playoff embarrassments that set new franchise records of ineptitude.

This org will be stuck in the mud as long as Tomlin is here - because you can’t have the guy that broke things, be the fixer - it’s illogical.

He gave up on KP after just two years, only to bring in retreads that put this org back in the exact same spot.

What concerns me is either he badly
missed evaluating KP or he blew the development side.

He had a massive advantage of seeing KP every day for five years in the same practice facility, and still somehow blew the pick

I’m not a big Fields guy, at all, but he then followed the same playbook with him as well.

Is this really a guy you can trust to evaluate, draft and develop a franchise QB ala Harbaugh with Flacco/Jackson?

Put another way, how badly would he have botched the development of Jackson, had they drafted him?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If you have some losing seasons, it’s not the end of the world.

The last time this org had a losing season, they ended up with a franchise QB.

Ya it’s not always going to work out that way, but being mediocre in perpetuity gets this org nowhere.

They aren’t even good at being mediocre - because Tomlin Purgatory means annual playoff embarrassments that set new franchise records of ineptitude.

This org will be stuck in the mud as long as Tomlin is here - because you can’t have the guy that broke things, be the fixer - it’s illogical.

He gave up on KP after just two years, only to bring in retreads that put this org back in the exact same spot.

What concerns me is either he badly
missed evaluating KP or he blew the development side.

He had a massive advantage of seeing KP every day for five years in the same practice facility, and still somehow blew the pick

I’m not a big Fields guy, at all, but he then followed the same playbook with him as well.

Is this really a guy you can trust to evaluate, draft and develop a franchise QB ala Harbaugh with Flacco/Jackson?

Put another way, how badly would he have botched the development of Jackson, had they drafted him?

It took multiple oc in Bmore to develop Lamar. Tomlin was talked into KP by Colbert because of KP accuracy the funny thing is the guy people assume Tomlin wanted actually played well for greenbay this season. There’s a limited amount of offense anyone can run with Fields at Qb. He did make strides this season
I am ready for a down season I am ready to trade tj and Minka and get off this hamster wheel

 

[JTG]

I don't see a downside in letting Fields play - he's awesome...we have a QB. He's good...we have a trade chip if the team still sucks. If the team wins, keep rolling. He's awful...draft pick.

Thinking through it, the best case scenario of the franchise on the whole is that Fields sucks. Him failing after Tomlin's backing I think would see multiple pins fall.

 

[JTG]

If you have some losing seasons, it’s not the end of the world.

The last time this org had a losing season, they ended up with a franchise QB.

Ya it’s not always going to work out that way, but being mediocre in perpetuity gets this org nowhere.

They aren’t even good at being mediocre - because Tomlin Purgatory means annual playoff embarrassments that set new franchise records of ineptitude.

This org will be stuck in the mud as long as Tomlin is here - because you can’t have the guy that broke things, be the fixer - it’s illogical.

He gave up on KP after just two years, only to bring in retreads that put this org back in the exact same spot.

What concerns me is either he badly
missed evaluating KP or he blew the development side.

He had a massive advantage of seeing KP every day for five years in the same practice facility, and still somehow blew the pick

I’m not a big Fields guy, at all, but he then followed the same playbook with him as well.

Is this really a guy you can trust to evaluate, draft and develop a franchise QB ala Harbaugh with Flacco/Jackson?

Put another way, how badly would he have botched the development of Jackson, had they drafted him?

Tomlin's offense needs a Fields because it's so anemic that it needs the QB to be able to pick up 1st downs with their legs. That's where we are at with it.

 

[Pens1566]

Tomlin's offense needs a Fields because it's so anemic that it needs the QB to be able to pick up 1st downs with their legs. That's where we are at with it.

We really do need any extra threat we can get. RW is less mobile than I am.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't see a downside in letting Fields play - he's awesome...we have a QB. He's good...we have a trade chip if the team still sucks. If the team wins, keep rolling. He's awful...draft pick.

Thinking through it, the best case scenario of the franchise on the whole is that Fields sucks. Him failing after Tomlin's backing I think would see multiple pins fall.

Fields as QB1 into next year is the most obvious decision. It will come down to contract. We also know based on the leaks that at least one of Arthur Smith and Russell Wilson is gone. They do not intend to coexist next year.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't see a downside in letting Fields play - he's awesome...we have a QB. He's good...we have a trade chip if the team still sucks. If the team wins, keep rolling. He's awful...draft pick.

Thinking through it, the best case scenario of the franchise on the whole is that Fields sucks. Him failing after Tomlin's backing I think would see multiple pins fall.

Problem is that he probably won't be good enough nor bad enough to make a difference on a Tomlin team. They probably win 9-10 games with him playing Tomlinball and lose in the playoffs (if they make it).

I'm perfectly happy to go with Fields, but they need to take the training wheels off and let him sink or swim. Tomlin won't, though, because NHALS is on the line.

 

[JTG]

Problem is that he probably won't be good enough nor bad enough to make a difference on a Tomlin team. They probably win 9-10 games with him playing Tomlinball and lose in the playoffs (if they make it).

I'm perfectly happy to go with Fields, but they need to take the training wheels off and let him sink or swim. Tomlin won't, though, because NHALS is on the line.

A 9 win season and another whiff at the playoffs is going to force the organization to do something. Tomlin's rope is running out. This is as much as he has ever been questioned a day in his career. Even his national media cronies are turning on him.

The break will come when they tell Tomlin he cannot pick his coordinators. He's going to ask to be let go.

Over the next 3-5 years we really need a ruthless front office to get this thing back on track. I just don't have the belief in Art 2.

 

[pistolpete11]

A 9 win season and another whiff at the playoffs is going to force the organization to do something. Tomlin's rope is running out. This is as much as he has ever been questioned a day in his career. Even his national media cronies are turning on him.

The break will come when they tell Tomlin he cannot pick his coordinators. He's going to ask to be let go.

Over the next 3-5 years we really need a ruthless front office to get this thing back on track. I just don't have the belief in Art 2.

I hope you're right, but I'm skeptical. They will find a way to spin it.

"WOW! He won 9 games with a castoff! Fields never won more than 5 games before!"

 

[JTG]

Baltimore claims DJ to get a comp pick for him. Some GMs play chess.

I hope you're right, but I'm skeptical. They will find a way to spin it.

"WOW! He won 9 games with a castoff! Fields never won more than 5 games before!"

The beauty of starting Fields to me is that I envision he comes into next season with a slew of new weapons and a new coordinator. He just had 1/2 a year to sit and watch and work on his game with a legit pro QB. If Fields can't do it next year, he aint it. I'm comfortable in saying that. Only reason I keep coming back to him is that the dude runs a legit 4.3. If he can figure out the passing side of it, he could be every bit a Lamar.

 

[pistolpete11]

The beauty of starting Fields to me is that I envision he comes into next season with a slew of new weapons and a new coordinator. He just had 1/2 a year to sit and watch and work on his game with a legit pro QB. If Fields can't do it next year, he aint it. I'm comfortable in saying that. Only reason I keep coming back to him is that the dude runs a legit 4.3. If he can figure out the passing side of it, he could be every bit a Lamar.

A new coordinator could be good or could be bad. I'm pretty sure Fields even said himself when he said that he'd like to stay in Pittsburgh something like "It would be good to not have to learn another new offense."

 

[WickedWrister]

Kozora: Evaluating The Steelers' Coaching Staff (Offense)

With the Pittsburgh Steelers’ season over, it’s time to begin reviewing the last four months. Just as the team’s doing internally, we’ll look back at the roster and coaching staff to offer evaluations of how the units fared. Today, I’ll review the Steelers’ offensive coaching staff and share my...

steelersdepot.com

 

[xlm34]

I don't see a downside in letting Fields play - he's awesome...we have a QB. He's good...we have a trade chip if the team still sucks. If the team wins, keep rolling. He's awful...draft pick.

Thinking through it, the best case scenario of the franchise on the whole is that Fields sucks. Him failing after Tomlin's backing I think would see multiple pins fall.

Yeah Fields is just a no brainer to me for next year. I’d be surprised if the end result is something other than this team drafting a QB in ‘26 but he’s really the only option this offseason as it stands that gives you a shot at something long term.

 

[The Old Master]

Tomlin's offense needs a Fields because it's so anemic that it needs the QB to be able to pick up 1st downs with their legs. That's where we are at with it.

then you would think that they would jump at the chance of hiring one of the top o-line coaches, but no they weren't interested.

 

[Peat]

A new coordinator could be good or could be bad. I'm pretty sure Fields even said himself when he said that he'd like to stay in Pittsburgh something like "It would be good to not have to learn another new offense."

If there's a new coordinator, I think I'd expect Fields to follow Smith to where ever he goes.

Also re what you said about another season of Tomlinball with Fields being moderately successful... yes. That's my fear and expectation too. All these personnel, staffing things - it doesn't matter unless Tomlin is going to open things up. Change and adapt.