OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

[xlm34]

I'm not going to look at individual weekly passing charts across multiple years, teams, and QB's. Peat already gave you the stats. Both Wilson and Smith have shown to be more aggressive in their previous stops. You know who hasn't for the better part of the last decade? Tomlin.

And nothing against what Peat put together but they don’t tell the whole story (passing charts would help with that). They just tell you what you want to believe.

And if we’re taking IAY/A, league average intended air yards this year is 7.6. Both Wilson and Fields are above that and above what Pickett and Roethlisberger were. Doesn’t exactly support the notion that they’re this super conservative passing offense when they do throw the ball.

 

[Peat]

I'm not going to look at individual weekly passing charts across multiple years, teams, and QB's. Peat already gave you the stats. Both Wilson and Smith have shown to be more aggressive in their previous stops. You know who hasn't for the better part of the last decade? Tomlin.

Tbf, I've given a stat.

And it's not very granular.

If someone showed me stats showing that Wilson was still bombing it down field just as much, only he was now using intermediate areas even less, I wouldn't be surprised. Ditto Fields. It's a possibility that would make sense.

But that still represents less aggression.

I know you can get QB stats by short, intermediate, and long somewhere. I think it's behind a paywall. It would give a better idea of what's going on than the one stat I pulled (while being less granular than the stuff xlm is pulling).

But I'd still expect it to come out at less aggressive in some form.

And nothing against what Peat put together but they don’t tell the whole story (passing charts would help with that). They just tell you what you want to believe.

And if we’re taking IAY/A, league average intended air yards this year is 7.6. Both Wilson and Fields are above that and above what Pickett and Roethlisberger were. Doesn’t exactly support the notion that they’re this super conservative passing offense when they do throw the ball.

Beat me to it.

I would say that, yes, it wasn't super conservative. I just don't think it was what those involved wanted or did at previous stops.

And speaking of which, Pickett discovered he could throw for 8.5 IAY this year. Tiny sample, but he could. And there's a lot more going on with a move from the Steelers' talent to the Eagles' talent, and it's not like Rudolph or Trubisky exploded, but I think it does point to my thesis.

 

[xlm34]

Tbf, I've given a stat.

And it's not very granular.

If someone showed me stats showing that Wilson was still bombing it down field just as much, only he was now using intermediate areas even less, I wouldn't be surprised. Ditto Fields. It's a possibility that would make sense.

But that still represents less aggression.

I know you can get QB stats by short, intermediate, and long somewhere. I think it's behind a paywall. It would give a better idea of what's going on than the one stat I pulled (while being less granular than the stuff xlm is pulling).

But I'd still expect it to come out at less aggressive in some form.



Beat me to it.

I would say that, yes, it wasn't super conservative. I just don't think it was what those involved wanted or did at previous stops.

And speaking of which, Pickett discovered he could throw for 8.5 IAY this year. Tiny sample, but he could. And there's a lot more going on with a move from the Steelers' talent to the Eagles' talent, and it's not like Rudolph or Trubisky exploded, but I think it does point to my thesis.

Yeah I think there’s just so much that goes into the “why” (is Smith calling intermediate passes that Wilson and Fields are turning down?) and I get the thinking from your end. I just can’t get behind it. The offense to me is just not all that surprising once we heard the OC/QB combo we were gonna have.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yup. Although, tbf to Tomlin, without looking at rosters, there's a significant limiting factor here in terms of OL quality. I don't know Ben's last OL started dropping off, but the struggles there have really hurt. Smith's previously had pretty strong OLs. I can believe that was the main limitation rather than Tomlin there.

The O-line, both personnel and coaching, over the last 5 or so years is a whole other tangent that while probably true, is also largely the fault of Tomlin.

I have to say, the quality of rush scheme really took me aback. That was the area where I thought Smith would help but instead they got worse which is quite remarkable.

To your point above, they did lose Daniels and Fauntanu which hurt.

I thought the more aggressive passing game with Smith and Wilson/Fields would loosen things up a bit for the running game. As I've been saying, I don't think they adequately did that, though. Maybe it wouldn't have helped anyway. There's no way to know for sure.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I think there’s just so much that goes into the “why” (is Smith calling intermediate passes that Wilson and Fields are turning down?) and I get the thinking from your end. I just can’t get behind it. The offense to me is just not all that surprising once we heard the OC/QB combo we were gonna have.

Yeah, fair enough. For me, I think the recent extent to which Tomlin has wanted risk free offence even if it means less points means I'd need proof positive that Tomlin wasn't causing problems there. And I did have some higher expectations for the attempted explosiveness of this offence just based on OC/QB so I am seeing problems beyond them.

But I think we're at agree to disagree point here.

The O-line, both personnel and coaching, over the last 5 or so years is a whole other tangent that while probably true, is also largely the fault of Tomlin.

True true. I guess I'd say that Tomlin's sin in this instance is one of roster construction rather than philosophy.

To your point above, they did lose Daniels and Fauntanu which hurt.

I thought the more aggressive passing game with Smith and Wilson/Fields would loosen things up a bit for the running game. As I've been saying, I don't think they adequately did that, though. Maybe it wouldn't have helped anyway. There's no way to know for sure.

True again.

And... I don't know what would have helped tbh. Might have a better idea after we see numbers but even then, I've no idea what they were trying behind the scenes or what. But... I'm not paid a million dollars to tell guys how to run around with a football. I'm not expected to have solutions. Smith is and he somehow managed to turn the same RBs and better running QBs and an upgrade at C and no Chuks into something worse. Even with no Daniels, that's some embarrassing shit.

Still. I'll believe he can turn it around, if he sticks around.

 

[T1K]

lol

 

[pistolpete11]

The bengals game is a great example of RW issues. The 1st time he dumped off passes to Warren and Harris they caught 10 passes combined he averaged 10.9 yards that game and attempted 38 passes
The rematch he attempted 31 pass but they took the dump offs to Najaee and Warren away and gave up the mof intermediate stuff he ignores. In the win they had more carries then in the run

20 of which came in the 4th quarter when they were desperate. They very clearly came out with the gameplan to run the ball because Tomlin thought he was going to outsmart everyone.

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm preaching to the choir here, but anytime I hear a comment like "who will you replace Tomlin with if you get rid of Tomlin?", I want to bash my head into a wall. We have an 8 year stretch to confidently say that Tomlin will only get this team to a 9-8 or 10-7 record and then get destroyed in the playoffs. This "you might be worse if you fire him!" idea is silly when what this team is with Tomlin is seriously contending for anything anyway.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

So Tomlin made it clear he is comfortable with JF has the full time Qb next season

 

[UnrealMachine]

I hope the team has enough confidence in Warren to take over the starting role next season and thus not have to spend high draft capital on a (potential) starting RB? We have too many other needs that need addressed in the first 3-4 rounds (DLx2, WR, DB).

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'm preaching to the choir here, but anytime I hear a comment like "who will you replace Tomlin with if you get rid of Tomlin?", I want to bash my head into a wall. We have an 8 year stretch to confidently say that Tomlin will only get this team to a 9-8 or 10-7 record and then get destroyed in the playoffs. This "you might be worse if you fire him!" idea is silly when what this team is with Tomlin is seriously contending for anything anyway.

Same response given about Sullivan years ago. It's a bullshit deflection technique

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It has also now been two coordinators, 5 different QBs, and the offense looks exactly the same as it did 4 years ago before Canada took over...

...

Canada flat out said he was doing what Tomlin wanted.

Canada’s offense also didn’t tie a modern franchise record 5 straight games without scoring 17 points.

That would be Tomlin’s team to end this season, the last time it happened was 1969, Noll’s first season.

That team went 1-13, and was the only 1 win team for this franchise in the last 82 years.

That’s how f***ing bad they were.

And Tomlin just tied one of that team’s records for offensive futility.

The difference is that team got to pick Terry Bradshaw because of how bad they were, while we just get more Tomlin Purgatory.

 

[JTG]

I think the biggest kick in the balls that I can remember is the Baltimore Ravens running for 299 yards in a playoff game. To me, that represents what I would consider basement floor. Far cry...

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Jesus, the Tomlin press conference. I guess I'm out until the we post 8-8 or get wrecked in the Playoffs again.

Best of luck. You guys are true fans watching the same thing over and over. (Pens and Steelers giving me plenty of extra Golf time. Lowered my handicap by 20 this year : )

As far as QB- why Wilson or Fields when Tomlin can find the next Trubisky...

 

[MrBrightside]

NFL wild-card best and worst coaching decisions: Todd Monken, Ravens outwit Steelers’ D

Pittsburgh's strategy to stop the Lamar Jackson-Derrick Henry attack wasn't enough, and Texans OC Bobby Slowik adjusted nicely.

www.nytimes.com

Too much to cut and paste but a damning indictment on this coaching staff and how they got punked on Saturday.

 

[Shrimper]

Jesus, the Tomlin press conference. I guess I'm out until the we post 8-8 or get wrecked in the Playoffs again.

Best of luck. You guys are true fans watching the same thing over and over. (Pens and Steelers giving me plenty of extra Golf time. Lowered my handicap by 20 this year : )

As far as QB- why Wilson or Fields when Tomlin can find the next Trubisky...

Unfortunately Tomlin isn't going anywhere. He has everything he wants and nothing he does would see him get sacked, it's ridiculous.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I hope the team has enough confidence in Warren to take over the starting role next season and thus not have to spend high draft capital on a (potential) starting RB? We have too many other needs that need addressed in the first 3-4 rounds (DLx2, WR, DB).

Not even sure i would bring warren back depending on the price

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[WickedWrister]

We got our guy

 

[Peat]

I'm preaching to the choir here, but anytime I hear a comment like "who will you replace Tomlin with if you get rid of Tomlin?", I want to bash my head into a wall. We have an 8 year stretch to confidently say that Tomlin will only get this team to a 9-8 or 10-7 record and then get destroyed in the playoffs. This "you might be worse if you fire him!" idea is silly when what this team is with Tomlin is seriously contending for anything anyway.

The simple truth is a lot of people would rather have that near guaranteed okay season than gamble. Fair enough I guess. I just don't agree.

I hope the team has enough confidence in Warren to take over the starting role next season and thus not have to spend high draft capital on a (potential) starting RB? We have too many other needs that need addressed in the first 3-4 rounds (DLx2, WR, DB).

We'll see but I feel like his 8 carries in the last two games says maybe not.

Tbh, I don't get wanting to relying on him as a starting RB. He had one amazing season and two fine change of pace seasons. He's not been super durable, he's had fumbling issues. Handing 200 touches a season to him? I don't feel it.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

We'll see but I feel like his 8 carries in the last two games says maybe not.

Tbh, I don't get wanting to relying on him as a starting RB. He had one amazing season and two fine change of pace seasons. He's not been super durable, he's had fumbling issues. Handing 200 touches a season to him? I don't feel it.

I think they offer him a 2 year deal for 2.5-3.0mil a season. His ROFR RFA offer is 3.185mil.

If they have already decided not to sign Najee, which I think they have, then I think they will want to keep someone who won't get the QB killed.

 

[UnrealMachine]

We'll see but I feel like his 8 carries in the last two games says maybe not.

Tbh, I don't get wanting to relying on him as a starting RB. He had one amazing season and two fine change of pace seasons. He's not been super durable, he's had fumbling issues. Handing 200 touches a season to him? I don't feel it.

I understand the reservations, as I’ve had them myself. But to me he has earned a shot to be the feature back in a -70/30 split scenario. Sign a decent backup in FA and/or draft a future back in the 5th round or beyond.

 

[End of Line]

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Unfortunately Tomlin isn't going anywhere. He has everything he wants and nothing he does would see him get sacked, it's ridiculous.

Man, I know... I just figured there would be sliver of change after so many years of 8-8, 9-7, 10-6 then the eventual ass stomping. Even I said, they would roll it all back- it's the path of least resistance and most profit.

I guess ass stomping it is. I'll pop in and make fun of them because it's going to be the same next year and things of such nature. (haha)

I see they are starting to sign the next set of Trubisky's.... best of luck being a fan of Tomlin purgatory. You were done before you started.