OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[WickedWrister]

Just a reminder that TJ Watt held out until like 3 days before Week 1 when he was looking for an extension.

If this drags into training camp, the protocol established by Watt (and Diontae) seems to be showing up and participating in individual drills while holding out of the team stuff. Kind of a middle ground loophole "hold in" since players can be fined like 5 figures per day in the new CBA for holding out.

 

[Peat]

Tweet got deleted and the footage went to youtube instead so I linked that.

Players shitting on Dulac warms my soul. I'm not going to get concerned with the Cam stuff until he starts missing mandatory minicamp in June and/or training camp. Holding out is really the only negotiating tactic available to players if they're looking for a new deal.

I do agree it doesn't matter until he's missing June stuff. Hell, mightn't even matter if he does miss that. TJ Watt sits out 11 vs 11 activities and only signs his new contract a couple of days before putting his name into the history book. Ah, I see you've made that point.

This exchange makes it feel a bit more likely we get there though.

Realising I don't really have a dog in Cam vs Dulac did no good things to my soul too.

Incidentally, it's ridiculous that this hold out/hold in thing has become de rigueur. You'd think grown arse adults could manage their negotiations better; they certainly do in other sports. I wish it were practical for the NFL to fine team and player a certain percentage of the contract for every stage of hold out they get through. That'd get us to the same result far quicker. Grumpy man shakes fist at clouds.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

2a. The stats can speak for themselves. Look at 2020 and beyond. Seems like he's becoming more of a "pass rusher" vs "run stuffer". Those kinds of stats are not something I'd want to commit long term to.

Cameron Heyward Career Stats - NFL - ESPN

Complete career NFL stats for Pittsburgh Steelers Defensive Tackle Cameron Heyward on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

2b. I think Games Played is a relevant stat. 6 seems like a reasonable number to determine whether a player is healthy and can be relied upon. Pick another number if you feel it's more representative

3. "Your right i do not respect that you have an opinion about this" Hey, super cool that you don't respect my opinion. Really nice flex and all that, but I think that says more about you vs me as I respect ( and will continue to)your perspective.
What Cam is doing doesn't make him a bad person. But it makes him a bad leader. And on a young team that needs all the leadership it can get, this isn't the way to set the tone for the season. I've always been of the mindset that if you put your nose down and do the right things, pay/status/accolades take care of themselves. The process matters than the end result. And you might disagree it's not hurting anyone, but the fact we're talking about it likely means others are too and have certain feelings about it (negative and positive).

2. I dont see where your getting your analysis. Tackles are consistent, sack have gone up later in his career. Pff (if your into that) still has him as elite/great every year except last year when he played through a major injury.

2a. I think games played is relevant as well just not to the question of is ______ “washed up” accute injuries are usually random. Are you of the opinion that his groin is a chronic issue going forward?

3. Not a flex, you brought up that i dont respect your opinion and i confirmed. I respect your right to have it but the opinion itself meh. Like i said in general i dont have much for when someone expects other to live up to their worldview (with the caveat that nobodies is getting hurt) myself included.

As far as leadership, it doesnt speak to leadership what so ever. Thats projection.

The fact were talking about only confirms it matters to random fans. And random fans don't matter.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Cam has balls, I'll give him that. His cap hit last year was 22 mill, which was a joke. It's an even bigger joke that the Steelers low balled multiple FA's this year and let fat boy come back at 16 mill salary this season.

Khan is a sissy

 

[xlm34]

I do agree it doesn't matter until he's missing June stuff. Hell, mightn't even matter if he does miss that. TJ Watt sits out 11 vs 11 activities and only signs his new contract a couple of days before putting his name into the history book. Ah, I see you've made that point.

This exchange makes it feel a bit more likely we get there though.

Realising I don't really have a dog in Cam vs Dulac did no good things to my soul too.

Incidentally, it's ridiculous that this hold out/hold in thing has become de rigueur. You'd think grown arse adults could manage their negotiations better; they certainly do in other sports. I wish it were practical for the NFL to fine team and player a certain percentage of the contract for every stage of hold out they get through. That'd get us to the same result far quicker. Grumpy man shakes fist at clouds.

Given the nature of the league, I don’t have a huge problem with holdouts at this point in the offseason. We’ve seen NFL teams cut ties with guys the second they become slightly inconvenient and generally things seem to be skewed in the team’s favor when it comes to this stuff, so I’m not gonna hate too much on players that are using one of the few bullets they have available to them.

 

[WickedWrister]

Incidentally, it's ridiculous that this hold out/hold in thing has become de rigueur. You'd think grown arse adults could manage their negotiations better; they certainly do in other sports. I wish it were practical for the NFL to fine team and player a certain percentage of the contract for every stage of hold out they get through. That'd get us to the same result far quicker. Grumpy man shakes fist at clouds.

Yeah I'm by no means a labor union expert but I just think generally speaking, NFL players have less power and leverage in their contracts & CBA compared to to Major League Baseball for example. The Steelers also bring this on themselves a bit by being old school and not working on extensions till later in the off-season. Maybe Khan is different? He got the Highsmith deal done in July, but I imagine that was an easier conversation. He showed up to OTA's though.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I don’t care he’s holding out, I just don’t want to extend him. if I’m Khan the plan is to pay Cam his money and let him walk/retire after the season.

The one hiccup is they really can’t afford to not have him this year (they’re gonna have to go DL early in FA/draft next offseason) if he misses games or forces a trade.

 

[xlm34]

I think this is probably not a big deal, but also kind of dumb. If the plan is to flip Jones to LT this year, he shouldn’t be losing reps there to accommodate Dan Moore.

 

[Peat]

Given the nature of the league, I don’t have a huge problem with holdouts at this point in the offseason. We’ve seen NFL teams cut ties with guys the second they become slightly inconvenient and generally things seem to be skewed in the team’s favor when it comes to this stuff, so I’m not gonna hate too much on players that are using one of the few bullets they have available to them.

Yeah I'm by no means a labor union expert but I just think generally speaking, NFL players have less power and leverage in their contracts & CBA compared to to Major League Baseball for example. The Steelers also bring this on themselves a bit by being old school and not working on extensions till later in the off-season. Maybe Khan is different? He got the Highsmith deal done in July, but I imagine that was an easier conversation. He showed up to OTA's though.

I get it. The NFL players are in a very weak position and I'm hating the game more than the players here. My guess is a lot of teams drag heels on negotiations too.

I think Khan got both Diontae Johnson and Highsmith done fairly early though now you mention it WW.

I think this is probably not a big deal, but also kind of dumb. If the plan is to flip Jones to LT this year, he shouldn’t be losing reps there to accommodate Dan Moore.

The only way this makes sense to me is if the plan is that Jones flips back to RT if Fautanu is injured, or if they're not sure Fautanu will stick at RT.

But yeah, feels weird. I do generally believe that accommodating Moore is about can't not won't though.


edit: Saw Herbig was C with them as well. So Steelers doing Steelers rookie things.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They're working Jones at both LT and RT because Moore can't play RT if Fautanu is injured or isn't ready to start in the season.

Jones will be LT and Fautanu will be RT if those two are playing, but if Moore is playing for any reason, it will be Moore at LT and Jones at RT.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Just a reminder that TJ Watt held out until like 3 days before Week 1 when he was looking for an extension.

If this drags into training camp, the protocol established by Watt (and Diontae) seems to be showing up and participating in individual drills while holding out of the team stuff. Kind of a middle ground loophole "hold in" since players can be fined like 5 figures per day in the new CBA for holding out.

Differences I see with the Watt/Cam thing:

1. Cam was voted as captain. That title comes knowing you're even more of a fishbowl.
2. Watt was coming off a monster season. He had a claim that he "outperformed his contract". Cam can't make that claim
3. Watt was also significantly younger and had more leverage than Cam. Cam is coming off like he wants to squeeze in 1 more payday.

 

[WickedWrister]

Differences I see with the Watt/Cam thing:

1. Cam was voted as captain. That title comes knowing you're even more of a fishbowl.
2. Watt was coming off a monster season. He had a claim that he "outperformed his contract". Cam can't make that claim
3. Watt was also significantly younger and had more leverage than Cam. Cam is coming off like he wants to squeeze in 1 more payday.

I mean yeah, they're obviously different calibers of players at this stage of their careers so the negotiations will be different. But I don't really think the captaincy has anything to do with it. I'm sure his teammates understand it's just business related and after all, these are voluntary OTA's.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Ummm, yay?

In other news, positive injury progress to report:

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Tomlin is like an onion.

Tomlin: 'Layers' To Decision To Not Pick Up Fifth-Year Option Of Najee Harris

The decision on May 2 to not pick up the fifth-year option of fourth-year running back Najee Harris was a bit of a surprising one by the Pittsburgh Steelers. For head coach Mike Tomlin, who spoke to reporters Tuesday following the first day of Organized Team Activities, it was a decision that...

steelersdepot.com

 

[DanielPlainview]

Tomlin is a dumb person's smart person

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Tomlin is a dumb person's smart person

He is like an onion because at least two or three times a game his decisions make me cry.

 

[Peat]

I mean yeah, they're obviously different calibers of players at this stage of their careers so the negotiations will be different. But I don't really think the captaincy has anything to do with it. I'm sure his teammates understand it's just business related and after all, these are voluntary OTA's.

I feel 95% sure his team mates support him more than any of us here.

Ummm, yay?

Lot of special teams reps. I doubt he gets anywhere near the 53 but if he does, he's the sort of guy who can contribute even with Harris/Warren hogging all the carries.

 

[Peat]

Also, while appreciating that Heyward has every right to chase the money, it makes me appreciate shit like this more

Patrick Queen Brushes Off Contract Criticism: 'So What If I Miss Out On 4 Or 5 Extra Mil'

The Pittsburgh Steelers made ILB Patrick Queen the highest-paid free agent acquisition in team history in March. The deal was for $41 million over three years, but the structure of the contract is very team-friendly to the Steelers. He received an $11.59 million signing bonus and a base salary...

steelersdepot.com

 

[ChaosAgent]

Incidentally, it's ridiculous that this hold out/hold in thing has become de rigueur. You'd think grown arse adults could manage their negotiations better; they certainly do in other sports. I wish it were practical for the NFL to fine team and player a certain percentage of the contract for every stage of hold out they get through. That'd get us to the same result far quicker. Grumpy man shakes fist at clouds.

Because these camps and stuff 110 days before a football is snapped in a meaningful game don't matter at all. They are popular because the NFL is King and they mostly exist to keep it that way 12 months a year.

So yeah, it's busywork. Not a real deadline that affects anything.

 

[Peat]

Because these camps and stuff 110 days before a football is snapped in a meaningful game don't matter at all. They are popular because the NFL is King and they mostly exist to keep it that way 12 months a year.

So yeah, it's busywork. Not a real deadline that affects anything.

Fair point well made, but that merely shifts the emphasis of the ridiculousness

 

[Jaded-Fan]

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Of course he wants another payday. Steelers should not give it to him

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wouldn't mind re-signing Peterson but he's also not really the type of CB they exactly need. But hey, depth is depth.

 

[xlm34]

Pat Pete on a cheap deal would be fine. He cannot be the starter outside but he wasn’t terrible last year when he was in the hybrid slot/safety role. And he’s a great vet for JPJ to learn from.

 

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