OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[MrBrightside]

It's actually pretty amazing to look at how many players on the 2023 Steelers that actually played legitimate minutes that are either still unemployed or very recently signed for minimal deals:

Keanu Neal
Allen Robinson
Pat Petersen
Levi Wallace
Mason Cole
Pressley Harvin
James Pierre
Markus Golden

And that doesn't even get into the ILB's like Alexander and Jack and Walker, although a lot of that was just an insane run of injuries.

Kahn still has some work to do and the WR and CB situations still are pretty gross, but there really feels like a lot less dead weight on the roster than what was floating around last year.

 

[Pens1566]

CB depth addressed?

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2024/05/12/steelers-add-cornerback-help-from-rookie-camp/stories/202405120136

I still think Beanie Bishop makes the team.

 

[JTG]

I also think he makes the team. Slot corner all day.

 

[WickedWrister]

Week 1 potential opponents: ATL, CIN, DEN, IND, LVR, LAC, NYG, WAS

Denver would be fun with the Russ connection.

 

[JTG]

Week 1 potential opponents: ATL, CIN, DEN, IND, LVR, LAC, NYG, WAS

Denver would be fun with the Russ connection.

It makes too much sense. I'll be shocked if it isn't Denver.

 

[MrBrightside]

I think they'll save the Wilson-to-Denver for a primetime game and all of those slots on Week 1 are already identified.

 

[Peat]

I'd like Markus Golden back since his name got mentioned. Had a strong season as a rotational piece. Wouldn't say no to Kwon Alexander who was very good from the get go, but I doubt he's fit at this point and Wilson removes the need.

 

[xlm34]

I think they'll save the Wilson-to-Denver for a primetime game and all of those slots on Week 1 are already identified.

Sunday night is still open.

 

[T1K]

Holy mother of god. I love Goff but $53 million a year...

Remember this when we think about how we evaluate Wilson at league minimum.

I remember a couple years ago arguing with someone in here who insisted that Mason Rudolph was a better QB than Jared Goff. I wish I could dig up those posts.

 

[Peat]

I think the main thing Goff makes me think of when it comes to Wilson is that very capable QBs can look very ordinary in the wrong circs. Maybe Denver was just the wrong circs rather than the years catching up to him.

Of course the problem with that is that even if that is the case, in a year you're back where Detroit are with Goff anyway.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I think the main thing Goff makes me think of when it comes to Wilson is that very capable QBs can look very ordinary in the wrong circs. Maybe Denver was just the wrong circs rather than the years catching up to him.

Of course the problem with that is that even if that is the case, in a year you're back where Detroit are with Goff anyway.

Wilson was declining in Seattle too

 

[Peat]

Wilson was declining in Seattle too

Yeah, but nothing like the level he showed in Denver.

I can't say I have much optimism but it's possible

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah, but nothing like the level he showed in Denver.

I can't say I have much optimism but it's possible

A bad version of Wilson is still considerably better than a good version of Pickett, that said I thought Wilson was much better last year than the year before. We upgraded our talent at QB. We need to accept that.

 

[Peat]

A bad version of Wilson is still considerably better than a good version of Pickett, that said I thought Wilson was much better last year than the year before. We upgraded our talent at QB. We need to accept that.

Funnily enough Wilson's worst recent year actually looks quite a lot like Pickett's last year statistically with the 3:2 TD-INT ratio and a QBR of 38. Stands to reason that the good version of Pickett would be the one that's considerably better.

I'd really rather leave Pickett in history but every time people drag him out as a comparison, I can't help but notice that the QBs we've acquired have some equally terrifying lows in their recent history.

 

[Ryder71]

Funnily enough Wilson's worst recent year actually looks quite a lot like Pickett's last year statistically with the 3:2 TD-INT ratio and a QBR of 38. Stands to reason that the good version of Pickett would be the one that's considerably better.

I'd really rather leave Pickett in history but every time people drag him out as a comparison, I can't help but notice that the QBs we've acquired have some equally terrifying lows in their recent history.

Wilson had what? 26 TD last season and 8 INT on a bad team? I'll take my chances with a guy who's a borderline HOFer over a never was, thanks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Wilson was declining in Seattle too

Wilson made the pro bowl in each of his last 5 seasons with the Seahawks. The only notable difference between him in the last year versus the previous 4 years was that he threw the ball less, not that his results were worse.

 

[T1K]

I’ll check back in two months from now when we’ve (hopefully) moved on from KP talk. JFC

 

[Ryder71]

I’ll check back in two months from now when we’ve (hopefully) moved on from KP talk. JFC

I've mentioned him maybe twice since he's been gone, I just find it hard to believe that anyone can't see we significantly upgraded our QB room. Sure they have flaws and mishaps, but talent wise and potential wise with Fields we definitely traded up.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the main thing Goff makes me think of when it comes to Wilson is that very capable QBs can look very ordinary in the wrong circs. Maybe Denver was just the wrong circs rather than the years catching up to him.

Of course the problem with that is that even if that is the case, in a year you're back where Detroit are with Goff anyway.

With Wilson, I think it's both but much more playing for Denver. I think this year should be a good test to see how much of it was playing with Denver, though.

I don't want to act like the Steelers are this offensive wonderland and they'll be insanely better than Denver, but I think Pittsburgh's offense is set up to support Wilson better than Denver's was.

 

[Peat]

Wilson had what? 26 TD last season and 8 INT on a bad team? I'll take my chances with a guy who's a borderline HOFer over a never was, thanks.

Wilson's season prior, his worse season, was 16 TD and 11 INT. That's what bad Wilson looks like.

Don't think Denver were all that bad last season either.

With Wilson, I think it's both but much more playing for Denver. I think this year should be a good test to see how much of it was playing with Denver, though.

I don't want to act like the Steelers are this offensive wonderland and they'll be insanely better than Denver, but I think Pittsburgh's offense is set up to support Wilson better than Denver's was.

I was having this conversation the other day and I have to say, the Steelers' offensive infrastructure looks questionable.

The Steelers' OL last year was a problem in pass protection. The Steelers have pumped a bunch of resources into fixing that, but rookie OL are rarely instantly great.

We've been over and over the WR and TE room here. I think even the most optimistic view is that they're shallow and could crumble with the wrong injury.

Harris and Warren is a great rushing combo but receiving wise, they're not the weapons the top RBs are. Great checkdown/screen options - particularly Warren - and there's some route running chops, but I don't know it could carry other weaknesses in the passing game.

Smith has had success with Tannehill so he should be fine, but the bit where Smith wants to target the middle of the field a lot and Wilson doesn't remains to be seen how it goes.

There's a version of next year where the OL takes a long time to gel and the WRs/TEs get injured/lose their temper that is very ugly. Tbh, in terms of this coming season, I'm still a bit surprised Khan didn't do anything about OL/WR in FA to avoid relying so heavily on a bunch of rookies.

 

[Ryder71]

Wilson's season prior, his worse season, was 16 TD and 11 INT. That's what bad Wilson looks like.

Don't think Denver were all that bad last season either.

So you wanna focus on his very worst season and predicate your opinion solely on that? I think you're trying to be too fine in your response. If you take the good and the bad, or in your case going with his worst, he's still a huge upgrade. Again, we're talking about a very accomplished guy over a never was, no real comparison. He went from 16 TD and 11 INT to 26 TDS and 8 INTs last year, if anything we should be encouraged. Beyond that his salary is next to nothing. Maybe you're the type that can never be happy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I was having this conversation the other day and I have to say, the Steelers' offensive infrastructure looks questionable.

The Steelers' OL last year was a problem in pass protection. The Steelers have pumped a bunch of resources into fixing that, but rookie OL are rarely instantly great.

We've been over and over the WR and TE room here. I think even the most optimistic view is that they're shallow and could crumble with the wrong injury.

Harris and Warren is a great rushing combo but receiving wise, they're not the weapons the top RBs are. Great checkdown/screen options - particularly Warren - and there's some route running chops, but I don't know it could carry other weaknesses in the passing game.

Smith has had success with Tannehill so he should be fine, but the bit where Smith wants to target the middle of the field a lot and Wilson doesn't remains to be seen how it goes.

There's a version of next year where the OL takes a long time to gel and the WRs/TEs get injured/lose their temper that is very ugly. Tbh, in terms of this coming season, I'm still a bit surprised Khan didn't do anything about OL/WR in FA to avoid relying so heavily on a bunch of rookies.

I don't mean that from a passing offense POV, I mean that as the Steelers extremely good (or should be extremely good) running game should give Wilson far more support than he got in Denver.

I wouldn't even begin to argue that the Steelers passing game is set up better for success with Wilson. Denver had Sutton, Jeudy and Mims as WRs, in fact Mims didn't even get that many touches due to their WR depth. However, the Steelers running game is going to be miles better than what Denver had, so that should help insulate Wilson more and ask him to do less than he did in Denver.

 

[Peat]

So you wanna focus on his very worst season and predicate your opinion solely on that? I think you're trying to be too fine in your response. If you take the good and the bad, or in your case going with his worst, he's still a huge upgrade. Again, we're talking about a very accomplished guy over a never was, no real comparison. He went from 16 TD and 11 INT to 26 TDS and 8 INTs last year, if anything we should be encouraged. Beyond that his salary is next to nothing. Maybe you the type that can never be happy.

You: I have this specific scenario that shows how great things are
Me: That specific scenario points out something very worrying
You: Oh you shouldn't pay any attention to the specific scenario I posted

Good talking.

I don't mean that from a passing offense POV, I mean that as the Steelers extremely good (or should be extremely good) running game should give Wilson far more support than he got in Denver.

I wouldn't even begin to argue that the Steelers passing game is set up better for success with Wilson. Denver had Sutton, Jeudy and Mims as WRs, in fact Mims didn't even get that many touches due to their WR depth. However, the Steelers running game is going to be miles better than what Denver had, so that should help insulate Wilson more and ask him to do less than he did in Denver.

That's fair although we're still down to a lot of weight resting on a group of very inexperienced OL. Also a positional coach who hasn't proven much. I don't think it's going to be a disaster but I wouldn't be surprised if it did in fact go tits up. It's a reasonable possibility.

Also lets wait and see a little about the running game being miles better. 4 YPA is firmly respectable middle class in the NFL and they were efficient about getting first down. They were 10th for rushing first downs despite being 18th for attempts; their 25% 1st down per rush rate was mildly more efficient than Atlanta's and the Steelers' 23%. It's close to Baltimore's 26%. I doubt Smith is getting that bit hugely more efficient. I imagine there'll be more rushing touchdowns, but that's the one thing Wilson needs zero help with.

I'd like to believe it'll be better, but miles? I dunno about that.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Interesting article that makes clear something that I mentioned on draft day.

The draft broke perfectly for the Steelers.

Had it not, they would have chosen some very nice talent, but would have been in some big trouble, especially on offensive line. Because the picking at tackle especially became very thin and the Steelers would have had to wait a while, or reached, or both, for anyone one at tackle, and likely missed out on Wilson.

What if the Steelers’ 2024 NFL Draft had played out differently?

If Troy Fautanu wasn’t available, what might this draft class look like?

www.behindthesteelcurtain.com

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's fair although we're still down to a lot of weight resting on a group of very inexperienced OL. Also a positional coach who hasn't proven much. I don't think it's going to be a disaster but I wouldn't be surprised if it did in fact go tits up. It's a reasonable possibility.

Also lets wait and see a little about the running game being miles better. 4 YPA is firmly respectable middle class in the NFL and they were efficient about getting first down. They were 10th for rushing first downs despite being 18th for attempts; their 25% 1st down per rush rate was mildly more efficient than Atlanta's and the Steelers' 23%. It's close to Baltimore's 26%. I doubt Smith is getting that bit hugely more efficient. I imagine there'll be more rushing touchdowns, but that's the one thing Wilson needs zero help with.

I'd like to believe it'll be better, but miles? I dunno about that.

Denver's lead back last year was Javonte Adams, who averaged 3.6 yards per carry.

The Steelers should be a good to great running team next year, while the Broncos were a bad running team last year. That's more of the reason for the "miles better" comment, it's not just that the Steelers running game will be good.

Just for comparison, Harris had a 4.1 yards per carry and Warren had a 5.3 yards per carry. The thing that brought down the Steelers average to only 4.1 yards per carry was a bunch of super ineffective running plays by Pickett, where he averaged 1.3 yards per rush on 42 attempts.

I expect the Steelers to be a top-10 to top-5 team in rushing next year in terms of yards per carry. That should be a big help for Wilson compared to where the Broncos were last year.