OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[Ryder71]

You: I have this specific scenario that shows how great things are
Me: That specific scenario points out something very worrying
You: Oh you shouldn't pay any attention to the specific scenario I posted

Good talking.

And that assertion of yours is completely inaccurate and intellectually dishonest, moving on....

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Denver's lead back last year was Javonte Adams, who averaged 3.6 yards per carry.

The Steelers should be a good to great running team next year, while the Broncos were a bad running team last year. That's more of the reason for the "miles better" comment, it's not just that the Steelers running game will be good.

Just for comparison, Harris had a 4.1 yards per carry and Warren had a 5.3 yards per carry. The thing that brought down the Steelers average to only 4.1 yards per carry was a bunch of super ineffective running plays by Pickett, where he averaged 1.3 yards per rush on 42 attempts.

I expect the Steelers to be a top-10 to top-5 team in rushing next year in terms of yards per carry. That should be a big help for Wilson compared to where the Broncos were last year.

If Troy Fautanu,and Zach Frazier are as good as we think that they are.

 

[Ryder71]

It amazes me (though it probably shouldn't) that even after what many in the know consider to be a very good offseason for the Steelers there is a ton of negativity. Unless we win like three consecutive SB's some here won't be happy. Even if we win a playoff game.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Oh my god Pickett doesn't even play for this team anymore. Let's just stop talking about him entirely.

I think their QB room is better now but the upgrade isn't going to suddenly make them a legitimate contender. This team still has issues and just going from Pickett to Wilson isn't going to fix all of those issues. Let's just stop making the comparison because there are still legitimate issues with this team that need to be address.

The only thing that matters at this point is Wilson vs Fields and whether you need to get a new guy down the line. Based on reports like these though, I'm thinking it's more likely that you'll need to get a new guy:

 

[Peat]

Denver's lead back last year was Javonte Adams, who averaged 3.6 yards per carry.

The Steelers should be a good to great running team next year, while the Broncos were a bad running team last year. That's more of the reason for the "miles better" comment, it's not just that the Steelers running game will be good.

Just for comparison, Harris had a 4.1 yards per carry and Warren had a 5.3 yards per carry. The thing that brought down the Steelers average to only 4.1 yards per carry was a bunch of super ineffective running plays by Pickett, where he averaged 1.3 yards per rush on 42 attempts.

I expect the Steelers to be a top-10 to top-5 team in rushing next year in terms of yards per carry. That should be a big help for Wilson compared to where the Broncos were last year.

The difference between the Broncos last year and the 10th best team for YPC is 0.3 YPC. For me, that's not miles better. Yeah, Javonte Williams didn't have great YPC, but the team as a whole did fine.

If the Steelers are a top 5 team peeling off 4.6 YPC then yeah, we're beginning to talk miles, but that's a lofty goal. I know the Pickett carries dragged the team down but it's still a big tall order.

And I also think the downs percentage thing is pretty important, albeit we're talking roughly the same sort of minor difference.

 

[WickedWrister]

Oh my god Pickett doesn't even play for this team anymore. Let's just stop talking about him entirely.

I think their QB room is better now but the upgrade isn't going to suddenly make them a legitimate contender. This team still has issues and just going from Pickett to Wilson isn't going to fix all of those issues. Let's just stop making the comparison because there are still legitimate issues with this team that need to be address.

The only thing that matters at this point is Wilson vs Fields and whether you need to get a new guy down the line. Based on reports like these though, I'm thinking it's more likely that you'll need to get a new guy:

Can't comment on the article because it's pay walled, but I'm always dubious of these reports with anonymous sources that come out after a QB or coach is traded/fired. There's always an agenda. Just look no further than some of the stuff that was reported by our media about HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED.

Not familiar with Tyler Dunne but is he just some dude with a substack?

 

[WickedWrister]

Falcons week 1!

 

[The Old Master]

There's a version of next year where the OL takes a long time to gel and the WRs/TEs get injured/lose their temper that is very ugly. Tbh, in terms of this coming season, I'm still a bit surprised Khan didn't do anything about OL/WR in FA to avoid relying so heavily on a bunch of rookies.

might be thinking that it would be a good reason to move on from coach t if things don't go well.

 

[Ryder71]

Falcons week 1!

TJ 2.5 sacks to start the season.

 

[Peat]

Can't comment on the article because it's pay walled, but I'm always dubious of these reports with anonymous sources that come out after a QB or coach is traded/fired. Just look no further than some of the stuff that was reported by our media about HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED.

Not familiar with Tyler Dunne but is he just some dude with a substack?

Yes/no. He's not a major name, but he was a journo with some papers for a long time. He's not a guy who just started a substack, he's got history and connections.

I'd never heard of him before this summer, but someone on Steelers Depot has a subscription to him and likes his stuff. Does a lot of long form stuff filled with anonymous scout/coach stuff.

 

[WickedWrister]

Yes/no. He's not a major name, but he was a journo with some papers for a long time. He's not a guy who just started a substack, he's got history and connections.

I'd never heard of him before this summer, but someone on Steelers Depot has a subscription to him and likes his stuff. Does a lot of long form stuff filled with anonymous scout/coach stuff.

I don't know, just kind of reads like a hit piece to me to be honest.

 

[JTG]

If they can find some really good glue free agents, I think this team could be dangerous. Positions that shouldn't be a problem -

QB - Good
RB - Good
WR - Light
TE - Good
OL - Good
DL - Sort of light. Needs attention. Could use upgrade
MLB - Good
OLB - Good
CB - Light. Could use a #2
S - Not sure how that's going to look and how productive they will be.

If they can bring in WR help and CB help that would really go a long way. I really, really like Ryan Watts that we drafted in the 6th round out of Texas. Our CBs are MASSIVE. Watts is another bully DB pick.

I think the main thing Goff makes me think of when it comes to Wilson is that very capable QBs can look very ordinary in the wrong circs. Maybe Denver was just the wrong circs rather than the years catching up to him.

Of course the problem with that is that even if that is the case, in a year you're back where Detroit are with Goff anyway.

Totally agree. It's insane, but Mason Rudolph last year to me looked like an NFL QB. He needs some work as a starter, but I do think he revived his career last year in the most incredible way. He very well could go from being 4 more games and then out of the league to playing well in Tennessee and being one of these backups that keeps landing solid contract after solid contract.

The dysfunction here will prove to make him a much more resilient QB.

Wilson was declining in Seattle too

If all goes to plan...they will have him throwing 25-30 times a game max.

 

[WickedWrister]

If that report about @ Falcons being the week 1 opponent is accurate, mildly annoyed that we open up on the road again for whats like the 9th time in 10 years.

Falcons are a good test and should be improved with Cousins, but they're not a juggernaut (O/U 9.5 wins) like having to play San Francisco week 1 last year so that's nice.

Steelers have only played the Falcons one time in the season opener before: Sept 12th, 2010. Big Ben was suspended and Dennis Dixon went 18/26 for 236 yards and 1 INT.

Atlanta Falcons at Pittsburgh Steelers - September 12th, 2010 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Atlanta Falcons 9 at Pittsburgh Steelers 15 on September 12th, 2010 - Full team and player stats and box score

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Peat]

I don't know, just kind of reads like a hit piece to me to be honest.

I get it. There's often a bunch of score settling and arse covering. At the same time, there's always going to be honest negative analysis around. There's always going to be analysis trying to pull from coaches and there's always going to be

Me, I look at where guys are from and what else they do. Most hit pieces come from beat reporters. Usually the same beat reporters. Your Dulacs, your Rossis, and so on. The guys who don't have much clue and are totally reliant on access to one org and ergo have to go with it.

This guy is running stuff on the whole NFL. He did a ton of pre-draft stuff (he's got Bob McGinn in to do that). He's got a lot of Chicago stuff right now, but I don't know whether that's any previous ties - his main papers he mentions are Buffalo and Green Bay - or he's just fascinated by the situation there. The history of QB failure there, the Caleb Williams situation, Fields failing to meet high expectations. Dunne wrote that Fields was the best QB in the 2021 class in November 2022. I dunno how many writers are on his substack actually (looks like three). He's got a ton of access to players.

The journalistic profile doesn't fit hit piece.

You want to continue being skeptical? Fair enough. Just read the quotes, judge whether they make sense. For me, a quote saying "look at this thing he's doing that's a sign he's not doing things right" - that's about as un-hit piece as it gets. It's an invitation to go check it out for yourself. People want to tell me he's actually secretly a shitty person? Hit piece. They want me to give me things to look for? I mean, that's the heart and soul of football analysis and teaching right?

 

[WickedWrister]

I get it. There's often a bunch of score settling and arse covering. At the same time, there's always going to be honest negative analysis around. There's always going to be analysis trying to pull from coaches and there's always going to be

Me, I look at where guys are from and what else they do. Most hit pieces come from beat reporters. Usually the same beat reporters. Your Dulacs, your Rossis, and so on. The guys who don't have much clue and are totally reliant on access to one org and ergo have to go with it.

This guy is running stuff on the whole NFL. He did a ton of pre-draft stuff (he's got Bob McGinn in to do that). He's got a lot of Chicago stuff right now, but I don't know whether that's any previous ties - his main papers he mentions are Buffalo and Green Bay - or he's just fascinated by the situation there. The history of QB failure there, the Caleb Williams situation, Fields failing to meet high expectations. Dunne wrote that Fields was the best QB in the 2021 class in November 2022. I dunno how many writers are on his substack actually (looks like three). He's got a ton of access to players.

The journalistic profile doesn't fit hit piece.

You want to continue being skeptical? Fair enough. Just read the quotes, judge whether they make sense. For me, a quote saying "look at this thing he's doing that's a sign he's not doing things right" - that's about as un-hit piece as it gets. It's an invitation to go check it out for yourself. People want to tell me he's actually secretly a shitty person? Hit piece. They want me to give me things to look for? I mean, that's the heart and soul of football analysis and teaching right?

This is the quote I was referring to that makes it seem like a hit piece. Basically citing unnamed sources "plugged into the locker room" that question his character and relationship with teammates. Fits the journalistic profile of a hit piece to me

 

[Peat]

This is the quote I was referring to that makes it seem like a hit piece. Basically citing unnamed sources "plugged into the locker room" that question his character and relationship with teammates. Fits the journalistic profile of a hit piece to me

View attachment 870865

Where did you find that?

But yeah, fair enough, that's a hit piece-y type comment. Might be true too, but people usually only leak that stuff out when they're annoyed. But then surface level people are annoying.

We'll see what happens here - assuming we hear the truth of what happens here anyway

 

[WickedWrister]

Where did you find that?

But yeah, fair enough, that's a hit piece-y type comment. Might be true too, but people usually only leak that stuff out when they're annoyed. But then surface level people are annoying.

We'll see what happens here - assuming we hear the truth of what happens here anyway

This article has some excerpts. I ain't paying for his substack

It's funny though, it's the same kind of stuff I've heard people say about Russ. Like that he doesn't form deep personal relationships with his teammates and is sort of a fake dude.

I don't even disagree with Empoleons original point about needing to find a new QB down the line, I just put more emphasis on the teams level of investment into these QB's (vet min and a conditional 6th round pick).

 

[bambamcam4ever]

This article has some excerpts. I ain't paying for his substack

It's funny though, it's the same kind of stuff I've heard people say about Russ. Like that he doesn't form deep personal relationships with his teammates and is sort of a fake dude.

I don't even disagree with Empoleons original point about needing to find a new QB down the line, I just put more emphasis on the teams level of investment into these QB's (vet min and a conditional 6th round pick).

It seems like everyone who has played with Wilson thinks that about him

 

[WickedWrister]

It seems like everyone who has played with Wilson thinks that about him

I think I mentioned this in here before, but I remember watching an interview with Marshawn Lynch and he said something to this effect. Played with Russ for 4 years and they won a Super Bowl together and he didn't even have his phone number. I don't know, I guess it's not vital to be BFF's with everyone on the team, but it does feel a little hollow. Just goes to show that winning solves everything.

 

[Peat]

This article has some excerpts. I ain't paying for his substack

It's funny though, it's the same kind of stuff I've heard people say about Russ. Like that he doesn't form deep personal relationships with his teammates and is sort of a fake dude.

I don't even disagree with Empoleons original point about needing to find a new QB down the line, I just put more emphasis on the teams level of investment into these QB's (vet min and a conditional 6th round pick).

Ah thank you! Looks like someone took all the tastiest parts from the Dunne article. I find the not wanting mentored thing even more damning tbh, and it's interesting that one is backed up by a source who's on the record. Being a kind of surface level dude, coming across as fake? As you say, that's Wilson. Wilson's had a pretty sweet career. You can survive not actually being the greatest person if you're a great player. But if a guy isn't willing to learn as much as he can...

But we'll see. Even if he was that guy, maybe this is his moment of clarity.

And even if he isn't, the odds are the team will need a new QB, because if nothing else the odds are against just about every QB. But as you say, it's better to be in that position on the cheap with zero commitment than it is to be in that position with a lot tied up in guys.



edit: If you want to a see a hit piece then clucking bell, Dunne's stuff on McDermott from last December is tasty. Even just the paragraphs before the paywall cuts in are great.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This article has some excerpts. I ain't paying for his substack

It's funny though, it's the same kind of stuff I've heard people say about Russ. Like that he doesn't form deep personal relationships with his teammates and is sort of a fake dude.

I don't even disagree with Empoleons original point about needing to find a new QB down the line, I just put more emphasis on the teams level of investment into these QB's (vet min and a conditional 6th round pick).

Yeah it definitely sounds like a hit piece against Fields, but at the same time, I don't think the comment regarding his QB vision is particularly unwarranted. Most people have said that Fields' major issue is going through his progressions and being able to identify open targets, so that comment of "he tries to see so much that he ends up seeing nothing" seems to support that.

I don't really care about whether Fields is "surface level" or whether he's a strong leader. The Steelers had Ben for years and Ben would go on radio shows to shit talk WRs he wasn't happy with after all, I have a hard time being mad about people saying Fields is "surface level". I just care about how well he can throw a football and how well he can identify open receivers.

 

[Ryder71]

I think I mentioned this in here before, but I remember watching an interview with Marshawn Lynch and he said something to this effect. Played with Russ for 4 years and they won a Super Bowl together and he didn't even have his phone number. I don't know, I guess it's not vital to be BFF's with everyone on the team, but it does feel a little hollow. Just goes to show that winning solves everything.

You're really concerning yourself with whether a teammate of Wilson had his phone number? What are we doin here? Who gives a shit? You're trying to win games, you don't have to be besties with your teammates, your paid, you perform, you do what you're told and you go home to your family. Listen if you're looking for issues, trust me you'll find them! My lord!

You ppl need to understand something, they're paid handsomely to entertain us, that's all that this about. THEY don't care about you. They probably wouldn't even like most of you, so beyond what they do on the Field, why should we care about them? Stop making everything so damn personal.

They're glorified stooges here to amuse us, NOTHING MORE!

 

[WickedWrister]

You're really concerning yourself whether a teammate of Wilson had his phone number? What are we doin here? Who gives a shit? You're trying to win games, you don't have to be besties with your teammates, your paid, you perform you do what you're told and you go home to your family. Listen if you're looking for issues, trust me you'll find them! My lord!

I don't really find it concerning, just an interesting personal story that Lynch shared about their relationship, or lack thereof.

I don't care if Russ and Ciara are part of a death cult, I just want TD's.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't really find it concerning, just an interesting personal story that Lynch shared about their relationship, or lack thereof.

I don't care if Russ and Ciara are part of a death cult, I just want TD's.

Exactly! I think there's far too much sensationalism and prying into public figures lives. I care about on the field results, not what they do on their own time. I get that they're visible and all that, but I think we all need to concern ourselves with ppl who actually matter to us on a personal level and are integral to our daily lives. That said, in Following a sports team, I'm a rabid fan, I'll admit that. But I care about the team not any individual player except IF they help my team. Once they leave the stadium I really don't care as long as they're able to be 100% and play the next game. I love sports, it's a big part of my life, use to play many sports as a youngin, now just enjoy watching others play at the highest level. Compartmentalizing the player from the person. Care about the player, not so much the person. Hope they're well but if not...

 

[Jaded-Fan]

ESPN Projections Predict Bleak Steelers Offense, Last-Place AFC North Finish

On the surface, bringing in Russell Wilson and Justin Fields should boost a stagnant Pittsburgh Steelers passing game. ESPN’s annual predictions paints a different picture. Mike Clay’s yearly projections do show an improvement in the number of touchdown passes. But only by a little. According to...

steelersdepot.com