GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Football

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You are straight up talking out of your ass. Bill’s E-P offense is all about presnap reads and chemistry. How the f*** do you have timing routes when the routes aren’t concrete till the snap? You can’t, and they don’t. You’re falling for the illusion that they are because when it’s run correctly, the ball is out very quickly. Brady dominated LeBeau this way because their offense cuts zone defenses to shreds, and you’d swear they were running a timing-based offense because of how they move the ball.

You’re having trouble accepting that Jones is freaking good. Put him on the Bears or 49ers and they’re performing better on offense, guaranteed.

Yep - I’m having lots of trouble accepting the guy I said last April would be the second best guy in his class is good.

Your stand up routine needs work.

And uh, your ignorance is shining through every which way.

You think a pre-snap read doesn’t have predetermined routes?

BB is running a street game offense huh? The f***?

The more you write, it becomes quite clear you don’t know your shit.

Go on and tell me how Jones would have the Jets and Jags first place in the conference.

Keep the comedy show going boss.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Yep - I’m having lots of trouble accepting the guy I said last April would be the second best guy in his class is good.

The two are clearly mutually exclusive.

You think a pre-snap read doesn’t have predetermined routes?

So you don't know what I'm talking about. I guess I'll explain this to you:

In a timed-route system, like Air Coryell, everything is predetermined and players move like clockwork. The pass is basically thrown to a spot the receiver is supposed to be.

In Bill's E-P offense, this is not the case. Often, it uses route options for its receivers depending on the defense shown. This is what makes it potentially so complex. The QB and WR have to be on the same page regarding what routes will be run.

Ergo, it’s not about “rhythm and timing” or “the system”, it’s about QB IQ and chemistry with the receivers. Even Brady would at times end up throwing to no one because he and the receiver made different reads.

Is Jones running the offense to its maximum? No. Of course not. But he's clearly running it better than anyone expected.

BB is running a street game offense huh? The f***?

This is the furthest thing from a "street offense".

The more you write, it becomes quite clear you don’t know your shit.

Irony.

Go on and tell me how Jones would have the Jets and Jags first place in the conference.

Dishonest framing.

Those teams are all around garbage; that is a ridiculous barometer. However, he would certainly be performing well despite his circumstances.

Your stand up routine needs work.

And uh, your ignorance is shining through every which way.

Keep the comedy show going boss.

Lol

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The two are clearly mutually exclusive.

Nah. This is just you not understanding that every QB has a an ideal system for his talents.

For whatever reason you are on some bizarre crusade that only makes sense in your little world, even though it’s been explained to you again and again why Jones lucked out.

So you don't know what I'm talking about. I guess I'll explain this to you:

In a timed-route system, like Air Coryell, everything is predetermined and players move like clockwork. The pass is basically thrown to a spot the receiver is supposed to be.

In Bill's E-P offense, this is not the case. Often, it uses route options for its receivers depending on the defense shown. This is what makes it potentially so complex. The QB and WR have to be on the same page regarding what routes will be run.

View attachment 489077

Ergo, it’s not about “rhythm and timing” or “the system”, it’s about QB IQ and chemistry with the receivers. Even Brady would at times end up throwing to no one because he and the receiver made different reads.

Is Jones running the offense to its maximum? No. Of course not. But he's clearly running it better than anyone expected.

No I don’t understand because what you are talking about is pure nonsense.

How you keep missing the fact that these routes are still predetermined based off what the QB and receiver are reading is amusing.

You think BB lets his guys wing it on the fly and hope things work out?

I already said his system requires an intelligent QB like Jones who can make quick pre-snap reads and understand his progressions, but timing is the most critical aspect of this offense.

No clue how you don’t understand that.

Dishonest framing.

Those teams are all around garbage; that is a ridiculous barometer. However, he would certainly be performing well despite his circumstances.

You literally wrote that he would be doing just as well anywhere else - but suddenly now these teams are garbage and that is unfair?

I’ll try to explain this for you again since it seems so difficult for you to grasp…

Jones is in his ideal system, playing for the best coach in the league, and is currently sitting first place in the conference.

That’s called getting lucky, having good fortune where you were drafted.

As opposed to Jones say, going to Jax and playing for a clown shoes coach and likely sitting in last place despite his best efforts.

That would have been shitty luck.

It’s not that hard to follow but uh….

 

[TimmyD]

Yeah I don't see why it's so hard to say that Mac Jones literally ended up in the perfect spot for him. That is definitely lucky and he absolutely would not be performing this well in Jacksonville... I mean Lawrence can't even prop that team up and he is way better then Jones

 

[The Old Master]

The two are clearly mutually exclusive.



So you don't know what I'm talking about. I guess I'll explain this to you:

In a timed-route system, like Air Coryell, everything is predetermined and players move like clockwork. The pass is basically thrown to a spot the receiver is supposed to be.

In Bill's E-P offense, this is not the case. Often, it uses route options for its receivers depending on the defense shown. This is what makes it potentially so complex. The QB and WR have to be on the same page regarding what routes will be run.

View attachment 489077

Ergo, it’s not about “rhythm and timing” or “the system”, it’s about QB IQ and chemistry with the receivers. Even Brady would at times end up throwing to no one because he and the receiver made different reads.

Is Jones running the offense to its maximum? No. Of course not. But he's clearly running it better than anyone expected.



This is the furthest thing from a "street offense".



Irony.



Dishonest framing.

Those teams are all around garbage; that is a ridiculous barometer. However, he would certainly be performing well despite his circumstances.



Lol

not to enter this argument ... but there are hockey teams that use "keys" to make the team look like they are much faster than they are. when everyone is on board.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yeah I don't see why it's so hard to say that Mac Jones literally ended up in the perfect spot for him. That is definitely lucky and he absolutely would not be performing this well in Jacksonville... I mean Lawrence can't even prop that team up and he is way better then Jones

I have been missing what the argument is also.

I think that everyone agrees that:

1. Jones looks like a great quarterback already. And was underrated when drafted.

2. Belicheck is a dick.

3. Belichick nonetheless is a great coach with a great system.

4. Belichick's system fits Jones' skills.

5. There are teams that can ruin and waste great talent.

I think that everyone is agreeing and thinking that they are arguing. Or am I wrong and someone disagrees with any of the above?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think that everyone is agreeing and thinking that they are arguing.

I was arguing.

 

[Pengwins]

let's get jiggy off his soapbox and put this thread back on track

Montravius Adams and Witherspoon made some nice plays against the rayvens. Hopefully they can continue to contribute

 

[DanielPlainview]

Nah. This is just you not understanding that every QB has a an ideal system for his talents.

For whatever reason you are on some bizarre crusade that only makes sense in your little world, even though it’s been explained to you again and again why Jones lucked out.

I'm not on a "crusade", I'm disagreeing that luck has much to do with Jones' success thus far. Calling him lucky is completely downplaying his level of play.

No I don’t understand because what you are talking about is pure nonsense.

No, you don't understand because you've been completely talking out of your ass about offense types. Just take the L.

How you keep missing the fact that these routes are still predetermined based off what the QB and receiver are reading is amusing.

You're trying to argue I don't know what I'm talking about while you prove you have no idea how route options work. Hint: they're not "predetermined" otherwise there's no "option" about it.

You think BB lets his guys wing it on the fly and hope things work out?

They are professional football players expected to play the game at a high level. He entrusts his players to make the right reads and be on the same page about what the defense is doing. He is not determining which option route his receivers are going to take, they make the decision on their own once they figure out what coverage the defense is running on a particular play. That can happen pre or post snap.

I already said his system requires an intelligent QB like Jones who can make quick pre-snap reads and understand his progressions, but timing is the most critical aspect of this offense.

No, it is not. Timing exists as much as its necessary for a play to function in the game of football. What is critical to this offense is everyone being on the same page in the passing game to exploit the holes in coverage.

No clue how you don’t understand that.

Clearly it's me who lacks understanding.

You literally wrote that he would be doing just as well anywhere else - but suddenly now these teams are garbage and that is unfair?

I said he'd be performing well. I said if he played for San Francisco or Chicago, those offenses would look better with him at the helm. I never said he'd have those teams in the playoffs. That was your bizarre determination, undoubtedly fueled by your complete inability to accept that Jones is performing well in New England on his own accord and not because he landed in some kind of ideal system.

I’ll try to explain this for you again since it seems so difficult for you to grasp…

Jones is in his ideal system, playing for the best coach in the league, and is currently sitting first place in the conference.

Sigh.

That’s called getting lucky, having good fortune where you were drafted.

Yes. Jones is very lucky. Very lucky to be a student of the game and take his job as QB seriously. He's lucky he's a tape junky. He's lucky to be able to read defenses at an advanced level for a rookie. He's lucky to have a strong arm and pinpoint accuracy. He's lucky Bill Belichick was there to summon these abilities out of him like some sort of Football Shaman. Makes you wonder how Cam Newton shat the bed in New England.

As opposed to Jones say, going to Jax and playing for a clown shoes coach and likely sitting in last place despite his best efforts.

That would have been shitty luck.

It’s not that hard to follow but uh….

This is complete nonsense. The barometer of QB play is not whether the guy can will a trash team to a good season.

 

[Pengwins]

 

[edog37]

Disagree all you want, the fact is the guy is often frantic on pass plays. You want to see poise in the face of pressure. So unless you think he has the ability to play like a young Ben or Brett Favre, and you can stomach the outcomes of such risk-taking, I’d stay clear

you just described every NCAA Division 1 QB in one post. Again you are talking the difference between a college level player & a pro level QB who has been the league a few years & perfected his technique. Pickett's mechanics compared to his actual group are excellent.

 

[TimmyD]

I have been missing what the argument is also.

I think that everyone agrees that:

1. Jones looks like a great quarterback already. And was underrated when drafted.

2. Belicheck is a dick.

3. Belichick nonetheless is a great coach with a great system.

4. Belichick's system fits Jones' skills.

5. There are teams that can ruin and waste great talent.

I think that everyone is agreeing and thinking that they are arguing. Or am I wrong and someone disagrees with any of the above?

They are disagreeing for sure. One poster thinks another is claiming Jones is only good because he’s in New England and is a “system QB.” What the poster is actually saying is Jones slipping to New England was the best case scenario for him because their offense fits his style very well and that he wouldn’t be doing as good in other places, not that he would be trash or very bad, just not quite as successful…which is very true

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm not on a "crusade", I'm disagreeing that luck has much to do with Jones' success thus far. Calling him lucky is completely downplaying his level of play.

So he would have the same record with the Jets or Jax?

Oh wait, you already said he wouldn't... yet you still don't get it.

No, you don't understand because you've been completely talking out of your ass about offense types. Just take the L.

You're trying to argue I don't know what I'm talking about while you prove you have no idea how route options work. Hint: they're not "predetermined" otherwise there's no "option" about it.

They are professional football players expected to play the game at a high level. He entrusts his players to make the right reads and be on the same page about what the defense is doing. He is not determining which option route his receivers are going to take, they make the decision on their own once they figure out what coverage the defense is running on a particular play. That can happen pre or post snap.

No, it is not. Timing exists as much as its necessary for a play to function in the game of football. What is critical to this offense is everyone being on the same page in the passing game to exploit the holes in coverage.

Clearly it's me who lacks understanding.

This shouldn't be this hard, but yet it is.

Every route they run has been drawn up by BB and his coaches. They make the read at the line, then run a route - designed by BB and his coaches (look I even bolded the important part for you) based on how they read the coverages.

They aren't out there running routes they make up on the fly. Like wtf are you even talking about?

And being on the same page and having the correct timing is all critical... it doesn't matter if you make the right pre-snap read if the receiver takes the wrong step or Jones gets the ball out late.

This again isn't hard to understand

I said he'd be performing well. I said if he played for San Francisco or Chicago, those offenses would look better with him at the helm. I never said he'd have those teams in the playoffs. That was your bizarre determination, undoubtedly fueled by your complete inability to accept that Jones is performing well in New England on his own accord and not because he landed in some kind of ideal system.

Yet you still can't make the correlation between why he is lucky.

Interesting.

Yes. Jones is very lucky. Very lucky to be a student of the game and take his job as QB seriously. He's lucky he's a tape junky. He's lucky to be able to read defenses at an advanced level for a rookie. He's lucky to have a strong arm and pinpoint accuracy. He's lucky Bill Belichick was there to summon these abilities out of him like some sort of Football Shaman. Makes you wonder how Cam Newton shat the bed in New England.

Yep he's lucky because he got drafted by a great coach and is sitting in first place because he was put in a position to succeed.

An opportunity he wouldn't have with the Jets. Jags. Bears etc.

That's called good luck - good fortune - whatever you prefer boss.

Again, not hard to comprehend.

This is complete nonsense. The barometer of QB play is not whether the guy can will a trash team to a good season.

The only nonsense here is that you mistook what I wrote, and even after having it explained several times, still are lost.

It literally took me one post to explain things to Jaded and he got it.

We are on posts what... 7...8? And you are still clueless.

You can't man up and admit you misunderstood me, even when I clearly explained what I meant.

Either that or you are really dense - there is no other explanation.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Just to throw another bomb out there, anyone surprised that New England is among the top four beneficiaries of the refs when it comes to pass interference?

DEC. 9, 2021, AT 6:00 AM
The NFL Offenses That Get The Most Out Of Defensive Pass Interference

By Josh Hermsmeyer
Filed under NFL

The NFL Offenses That Get The Most Out Of Defensive Pass Interference

 

[OnMyOwn]

Holy f*** guys.

I’d almost rather see Richard saying clown or dumblin every other post.

 

[Night Shift]

Holy f*** guys.

I’d almost rather see Richard saying clown or dumblin every other post.

I'm doing my best to lean off the thread. Just for you guys! Plus it's hockey season now which is why I'm here anyway.

 

[JTG]

I really hope Ben doesn't go all Brett Favre at the end of his career. He loves drama, and I could see him playing the back and forth in the offseason like Favre did.

 

[Andy99]

I hate rooting against the Steelers but I hope they lose tonight so the charade that we’re actually a playoff-capable team will end…

 

[Ugene Magic]

For being indoors, that was particularly way off.

 

[Andy99]

For being indoors, that was particularly way off.

they should have gone for it and I thought that before they missed the FG

 

[VanIsle]

Really, you got 4 yards

 

[Rossi Rat]

FFS Claypool.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Claypool is wearing thin on me

 

[Andy99]

FFS Claypool.

is there a bigger idiot on the team than Claypool now that JuJu is finished?

 

[VanIsle]

That was delay of game, lucky