OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Doritos Bowl Match Up - Taylor Swift vs San Andreas Fault

[MrBrightside]

And I totally disagree that WR is not a pretty big need. Deonte is in the last year of his deal, Robinson was not good at all and Austin is a gadget guy. They badly need a big slot receiver and another decent guy. They need to spend some money in FA to bring in a guy and they need to spend a pick on a guy. My thought would be a 3rd or one of the 4ths.

I don't disagree with this. All I was trying to say is that I don't think replacing Johnson or Pickens is high on the list of needs. They absolutely need to add another guy for the immediate future and, as you note, for the long term if Johnson isn't being extended.

 

[Peat]

I think that open stat is just a sign of how teams defend the Steelers as much as anything. They know the team doesn't throw it deep, so they stack the box and play aggressive at the line. Theoretically that opens up tons of chances to punish teams, but since so many of the reads look to be installed for look short first, it doesn't happen.

Whether Pickens and DJ would still be getting open like that in an offence that targets them on aggressive routes far more consistently is an open question.

 

[JTG]

If the Ravens make the Super Bowl and win, their OC in the last 3 years has won two national titles at UGA and a Super Bowl in Baltimore.

 

[JTG]

I think that open stat is just a sign of how teams defend the Steelers as much as anything. They know the team doesn't throw it deep, so they stack the box and play aggressive at the line. Theoretically that opens up tons of chances to punish teams, but since so many of the reads look to be installed for look short first, it doesn't happen.

Whether Pickens and DJ would still be getting open like that in an offence that targets them on aggressive routes far more consistently is an open question.

I think the issue is that the offense was predictable. The defenses knew when the pass and run were coming and they acted accordingly. I think if they keep running play action, things will open up for the run and the pass. They actually were, and though Mason did execute better than Kenny, Mason also worked in a different offense than Kenny.

Those two RBs looked great when they weren't facing 8 man boxes.

 

[Peat]

I think the issue is that the offense was predictable. The defenses knew when the pass and run were coming and they acted accordingly. I think if they keep running play action, things will open up for the run and the pass. They actually were, and though Mason did execute better than Kenny, Mason also worked in a different offense than Kenny.

Those two RBs looked great when they weren't facing 8 man boxes.

Agree with all of this. And, given how Tomlin talked about wanting an OC who keeps opponents guessing, I hope he does.

The question is whether he can get an OC who can do it and listen to them as to how. I'm still really taken back by that whole "the players telling me the box is stacked, guess I'd better them to keep running into it" thing at Buffalo (I also wonder if there will be repercussions for Harris throwing Tomlin under the bus like that).

 

[T1K]

If the Ravens make the Super Bowl and win, their OC in the last 3 years has won two national titles at UGA and a Super Bowl in Baltimore.

He’ll probably get a HC opportunity

 

[JTG]

Agree with all of this. And, given how Tomlin talked about wanting an OC who keeps opponents guessing, I hope he does.

The question is whether he can get an OC who can do it and listen to them as to how. I'm still really taken back by that whole "the players telling me the box is stacked, guess I'd better them to keep running into it" thing at Buffalo (I also wonder if there will be repercussions for Harris throwing Tomlin under the bus like that).

There is still something missing. Najee says things like this pretty frequently - maybe not as blatant. It really comes off as no one being able to adapt or take recommendations. There has really been something missing here and I hope with the new OC we find it.

He’ll probably get a HC opportunity

I would imagine at some time in the very near future he will regardless of results this season.

 

[Peat]

There is still something missing. Najee says things like this pretty frequently - maybe not as blatant. It really comes off as no one being able to adapt or take recommendations. There has really been something missing here and I hope with the new OC we find it.

A more open OC than Canada is a big start but the problems start above that pay grade and we all know it. Hopefully the OC can sell Tomlin on a new vision.

 

[JTG]

A lot of smoke around Kingsbury - like Steelers 1st round pick levels of smoke.

I'm going to imagine he's their guy at this point.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

A lot of smoke around Kingsbury - like Steelers 1st round pick levels of smoke.

I'm going to imagine he's their guy at this point.

Where are you getting this from? The only thing I have seen was that they are going to bring him in for an interview. Same with Zac Robinson.

 

[WickedWrister]

How the hell is Mike Sullivan getting multiple OC interviews?

 

[Josey Wales]

How the hell is Mike Sullivan getting multiple OC interviews?

he was an interim OC with Giants at one time

 

[T1K]

How the hell is Mike Sullivan getting multiple OC interviews?

He has prior OC experience. How funny would it be if he moves on and ends up being a star? I kinda hope it happens

 

[Empoleon8771]

Didn’t Sullivan kinda suck as an OC when he was that in the NFL? I’m glad they’re looking for outside names to fill the role.

I actually think Kingsbury would fit the role well. The offenses he had in Arizona tended to be good, especially with the running game. He didn’t work out as a head coach, but a failed head coach doesn’t make a bad coordinator. I’d be happy with that hire I think.

 

[ChaosAgent]

https://www.audacy.com/937thefan/sports/pittsburgh-steelers/steelers-already-have-their-rt-he-doesnt-know-it-yet

Full in on this. Washington isn't a threat offensively. His impact as a blocker could be incredbile. He absolutely buried Bosa. For the sake of his career he should be begging to be a RT.

He cannot possibly be any worse than Moore or Chuks. Have him put on 25 pounds this offseason. His length alone will allow him to play at a lower weight. He did 21 bench press reps with 35 inch arms...which is crazy. I legit believe Washington is a Jason Peters/Jordan Mailata type guy where he gets turned into a tackle and it's immediate.

I love the idea, but I just wouldn't make it my plan A. Too important of a position.

Washington is clearly a big/strong guy but I found him extremely...oafish/clumsy in the receiving aspects of being a tight end. Like a super long-term project to be good and not just a second TE for run support.
I am down to move him to tackle, just...need a backup plan that is better than Dan Moore.

 

[JTG]

The thing that is interesting is that though the QBs have had mixed results, we have 3 QBs in that room now that have played football so camp is wide open. I wouldn't name a starter to even start camp. Everyone is on the same page with a new offense. If they hire Robinson, Mason is going to be his guy, so that should be awkward.

"Rudolph and Mason actually lived together as Robinson coached Rudolph in his predraft preparations ahead of the 2018 NFL draft. The Steelers selected Robinson in the third round out of Oklahoma State where Robinson also played quarterback. Robinson said he became like a big brother more than a coach as he helped set up Rudolph’s combine and pro day workouts. The two also trained together during Rudolph’s time at Oklahoma State prior to his final season."

Zac Robinson's connection to Steelers QB Mason Rudolph is strong

There is a long standing history between Mason Rudolph and Zac Robinson.

steelerswire.usatoday.com

 

[robopigeon]

Didn’t Sullivan kinda suck as an OC when he was that in the NFL? I’m glad they’re looking for outside names to fill the role.

I actually think Kingsbury would fit the role well. The offenses he had in Arizona tended to be good, especially with the running game. He didn’t work out as a head coach, but a failed head coach doesn’t make a bad coordinator. I’d be happy with that hire I think.

His offenses were awful in college and the NFL. Likely a really good or great QB coach, but all of his success comes from QB's that are elite improvisers after plays break down, basically QB's that can make something from nothing. He has an incredibly limited playbook that's mostly screens from shotgun, limited movement, shitty route trees, and basic air raid stuff they now run in high schools.

 

[Empoleon8771]

His offenses were awful in college and the NFL. Likely a really good or great QB coach, but all of his success comes from QB's that are elite improvisers after plays break down, basically QB's that can make something from nothing. He has an incredibly limited playbook that's mostly screens from shotgun, limited movement, shitty route trees, and basic air raid stuff they now run in high schools. Arizonia started 8-0 with him until someone realized he had no answers for dropping 7 in coverage and his NFL career was over because he couldn't adapt or adjust.

With the Cardinals:

-2019: 16th in points, 10th in rushing yards, 24th in passing yards
-2020: 13th in points, 7th in rushing yards, 17th in passing yards
-2021: 11th in points, 10th in rushing yards, 10th in passing yards
-2022: 21st in points, 22nd in rushing yards, 21st in passing yards

Outside of 2022, where Kyler missed a third of the season, how are any of these “awful” results in the NFL? And this was done with the Cardinals, who didn’t exactly have a ton of offensive talent outside of Murray and 1 year of Hopkins.

 

[Peat]

Didn’t Sullivan kinda suck as an OC when he was that in the NFL? I’m glad they’re looking for outside names to fill the role.

Tampa had a borderline top 10 offence with him his first year there, then regressed to pretty much the worst his next season there with a new QB and RB. The offence got worse when he took over in NY (although Manning wanted him to stay in the role). And better here.

So swings and roundabouts. I wouldn't be excited by him if I was another team but I don't think he's a total failure who would be a very questionable hire. I think it's also fair to point out that the best QB he's co-ordinated for is ... uh, that looks like a real open question. I guess 36 year old Manning in a season with an injured OBJ?

I wouldn't be surprised if he was a horrible failure and I wouldn't be surprised if he did better than whoever comes in here.

 

[xlm34]

Another young, McVay guy.

Total speculation on my part, but I wonder if part of the OC search is them looking for a successor for Tomlin? I could see a two year extension for Tomlin with the idea that the new coordinator could be his replacement.

 

[JTG]

Another young, McVay guy.

Total speculation on my part, but I wonder if part of the OC search is them looking for a successor for Tomlin? I could see a two year extension for Tomlin with the idea that the new coordinator could be his replacement.

That is a pretty good possibility.

I'd love to see them take advantage of the love affair with Tomlin, but they never will.

 

[Peat]

Another young, McVay guy.

Total speculation on my part, but I wonder if part of the OC search is them looking for a successor for Tomlin? I could see a two year extension for Tomlin with the idea that the new coordinator could be his replacement.

A smart org should have potential HCing candidates climbing the rungs but given everything I've ever seen out of the Steelers and Tomlin, I just don't think succession planning occurs to them for more than five seconds at a time. Like, I can see Rooney thinking Tomlin can be there for another 15 years so why think about it and there's no sense of impatience with him or Tomlin being a guy who'd say "hey, I've got an internal date, so make your plans accordingly".

 

[T1K]

With the Cardinals:

-2019: 16th in points, 10th in rushing yards, 24th in passing yards
-2020: 13th in points, 7th in rushing yards, 17th in passing yards
-2021: 11th in points, 10th in rushing yards, 10th in passing yards
-2022: 21st in points, 22nd in rushing yards, 21st in passing yards

Outside of 2022, where Kyler missed a third of the season, how are any of these “awful” results in the NFL? And this was done with the Cardinals, who didn’t exactly have a ton of offensive talent outside of Murray and 1 year of Hopkins.

They sucked in 2022 before Kyler got hurt. His injury was not the sole reason for the team’s offensive regression.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They sucked in 2022 before Kyler got hurt. His injury was not the sole reason for the team’s offensive regression.

Okay but that doesn’t invalidate my point that the other 3 years weren’t awful.

 

[Peat]

They sucked in 2022 before Kyler got hurt. His injury was not the sole reason for the team’s offensive regression.

Fair, but Murray getting injured removes their big chance to reverse the regression, no?

I don't know much about Kingsbury. But in general, I'm not scared of an OC who's been around for a regression, as I think they come to every good offence sooner or later. My question is more how good can they be when they're good and can they bounce back when the bad comes. Having a roughly top 10 offence does intrigue me, there's not going to be a bunch of guys who've done that applying for the role.

edit: also just by averages, they'd have been 14th in the league for points based on the games Murray played that season. That doesn't sound super awful.