OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[The Old Master]

Huh? We got 7 1000+ years from Brown and he was arguably the best WR in the NFL for half a decade or more. Sign me up for that from Pickens even if it eventually ends poorly.

he's a player you keep until you have a replacement. and even then, you think long and hard about it. imo

 

[JTG]

Huh? We got 7 1000+ years from Brown and he was arguably the best WR in the NFL for half a decade or more. Sign me up for that from Pickens even if it eventually ends poorly.

Right, but I think you're missing the point of the post - he was a problem in the locker room a majority of the time he was here and Tomlin did nothing about it. He then forced the Steelers to renegotiate his deal, then after that happened he forced his way to the Raiders where the team couldn't get anything of value for him and caused a massive dead cap penalty. All the fans got was "we want volunteers not hostages."

Brown and Bell totally clowned the Steelers at the end of their tenures and had they not been provided to much leash and any control was had over that locker room, they would have won anything in the Triple B era. The team won nothing and and both players f***ed the team on the way out. You're cool with 1000 yard seasons...I would have liked to see playoff wins.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Right, but I think you're missing the point of the post - he was a problem in the locker room a majority of the time he was here and Tomlin did nothing about it. He then forced the Steelers to renegotiate his deal, then after that happened he forced his way to the Raiders where the team couldn't get anything of value for him and caused a massive dead cap penalty. All the fans got was "we want volunteers not hostages."

Brown and Bell totally clowned the Steelers at the end of their tenures and had they not been provided to much leash and any control was had over that locker room, they would have won anything in the Triple B era. The team won nothing and and both players f***ed the team on the way out. You're cool with 1000 yard seasons...I would have liked to see playoff wins.

There is no evidence that either was a problem in the locker room aside from the way Brown melted down at the very end.

 

[Peat]

The thing about Tomlin's man management reputation and skills isn't that he reforms everyone though. Sometime instead it's about being getting a person to be merely a problem instead of completely unworkable with. Getting limited explosions rather than constant explosions. Guys like Brown being a problem in the locker room through that period - if they were - doesn't mean Tomlin was doing nothing or ignoring them. It is completely possible that Tomlin was doing the best possible job of getting the least possible explosions from a volcano - which is his reputation, right?

Which I believe to have a bunch of truth to it. I don't think all the players and NFL guys raving about it are full of shit.

And yeah, maybe part of how he did things was by ignoring or downplaying some shit that other coaches wouldn't. But that isn't necessarily a bad way of doing his job and I'm going to guess more coaches take his approach now than they did when Tomlin started.

 

[JTG]

There is no evidence that either was a problem in the locker room aside from the way Brown melted down at the very end.

Locker room videos being released on live stream? Him actively Twitter beefing with JuJu while he was still a member of the team? These are just off the top of my head.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Locker room videos being released on live stream? Him actively Twitter beefing with JuJu while he was still a member of the team? These are just off the top of my head.

And? A bunch of shit that doesnt matter? Except to fans that want it to?

 

[TooManyHumans]

Right, but I think you're missing the point of the post - he was a problem in the locker room a majority of the time he was here and Tomlin did nothing about it. He then forced the Steelers to renegotiate his deal, then after that happened he forced his way to the Raiders where the team couldn't get anything of value for him and caused a massive dead cap penalty. All the fans got was "we want volunteers not hostages."

Brown and Bell totally clowned the Steelers at the end of their tenures and had they not been provided to much leash and any control was had over that locker room, they would have won anything in the Triple B era. The team won nothing and and both players f***ed the team on the way out. You're cool with 1000 yard seasons...I would have liked to see playoff wins.

There’s at least as strong an argument that Tomlin kept AB in line and got the most possible out of AB. And Bell didn’t melt down. He had a contract dispute.

 

[WickedWrister]

Yeah I think what separates Tomlin from a lot of other coaches is that he actually genuinely seems to care about his players on a human level. I remember him doing a podcast with Ryan Clark and Fred Taylor and Taylor talked about some of his former coaches treating him like a commodity (Jack Del Rio - who ironically just got arrested for a DUI and has a humiliating video out right now). Obviously there's more to it than just being a nice guy, but I think he does have good relationship and motivational skills in part because he cares and listens to his players. Knowing what buttons to push to best manage different individuals.

Early in AB's career, I know Tomlin even talked about his family looking after AB's son on road trips and having him over for Easter etc... family type atmosphere. Seems like their relationship changed due to life/fame/money/success but it's hard to argue with the individual results. Almost 15k all purpose yards in 9 years is absurd. Only thing lacking was a Lombardi.

Some of the stories were crazy though. AB fighting Ike Taylor and 75 year old Dick Lebeau the day after he got his $40 mil

 

[Wattsburgh]

Does anyone know if Roman Wilson is available to play this year. He absolutely was a wrecking ball at Michigan. And at his age (23) I don’t see why he couldn’t step in and make a decent impact. Especially with our depleted WR room. TIA.

 

[WickedWrister]

Does anyone know if Roman Wilson is available to play this year. He absolutely was a wrecking ball at Michigan. And at his age (23) I don’t see why he couldn’t step in and make a decent impact. Especially with our depleted WR room. TIA.

Teams can only activate 8 players to return from IR during the regular season. You can activate two more if you make the playoffs. I believe with Corey Trice and Mon Adams activated we have used all our 8 for the regular season, but not 100% sure on that.

 

[Wattsburgh]

Teams can only activate 8 players to return from IR during the regular season. You can activate two more if you make the playoffs. I believe with Corey Trice and Mon Adams activated we have used all our 8 for the regular season, but not 100% sure on that.

Thanks Wicked.

 

[Peat]

Teams can only activate 8 players to return from IR during the regular season. You can activate two more if you make the playoffs. I believe with Corey Trice and Mon Adams activated we have used all our 8 for the regular season, but not 100% sure on that.

Judging from this article they still have 2, as Trice and Adams were 5 and 6 rather than 7 and 8.

The Steelers Are Running Out Of IR 'To Return' Slots

Like any team, the Pittsburgh Steelers have felt the weight of attrition that an NFL season brings come Thanksgiving. For their sake, hopefully the Steelers can remain healthy the rest of the way. Otherwise, the team may have to begin making tough decisions on who to bring back and who to leave...

steelersdepot.com

He's been eligible for a while too.

My guess is you won't see him unless the WR room ships a bunch of injuries and even if that happens, he'll be more break glass than featured.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Right, but I think you're missing the point of the post - he was a problem in the locker room a majority of the time he was here and Tomlin did nothing about it. He then forced the Steelers to renegotiate his deal, then after that happened he forced his way to the Raiders where the team couldn't get anything of value for him and caused a massive dead cap penalty. All the fans got was "we want volunteers not hostages."

Brown and Bell totally clowned the Steelers at the end of their tenures and had they not been provided to much leash and any control was had over that locker room, they would have won anything in the Triple B era. The team won nothing and and both players f***ed the team on the way out. You're cool with 1000 yard seasons...I would have liked to see playoff wins.

They didn't win anything because their defense was average at best and their QB turned it over a bunch in the playoffs.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Thanks Wicked.

His season is over. It’s no different than Ca3 rookie season being over because of the lis frank with out playing regular season games. Next season will be 2 dogs 1 bone between those 2

 

[JTG]

There’s at least as strong an argument that Tomlin kept AB in line and got the most possible out of AB. And Bell didn’t melt down. He had a contract dispute.

And did you hear part of the reason why they had a contract dispute? Bell thought Ben had too much say it what was going on. Then he told his offensive line he'd be back and then ghosted them - DeCastro and Pouncey took public exception. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like the two dudes were good teammates. Two of the best Steelers ever but they couldn't stay out of their own way.

And? A bunch of shit that doesnt matter? Except to fans that want it to?

Except it does matter. And very clearly did to Tomlin afterwards also. Twitter beefing with an active teammate at your position? No big deal? K.

So we are now reducing down the original point. There were problems with the two dudes.

 

[JTG]

Yeah I think what separates Tomlin from a lot of other coaches is that he actually genuinely seems to care about his players on a human level. I remember him doing a podcast with Ryan Clark and Fred Taylor and Taylor talked about some of his former coaches treating him like a commodity (Jack Del Rio - who ironically just got arrested for a DUI and has a humiliating video out right now). Obviously there's more to it than just being a nice guy, but I think he does have good relationship and motivational skills in part because he cares and listens to his players. Knowing what buttons to push to best manage different individuals.

Early in AB's career, I know Tomlin even talked about his family looking after AB's son on road trips and having him over for Easter etc... family type atmosphere. Seems like their relationship changed due to life/fame/money/success but it's hard to argue with the individual results. Almost 15k all purpose yards in 9 years is absurd. Only thing lacking was a Lombardi.

Some of the stories were crazy though. AB fighting Ike Taylor and 75 year old Dick Lebeau the day after he got his $40 mil

I think Tomlin is a master motivator and he can keep dudes on track in life. I'll never take that away from him. The rub is that if he brought in a competent offensive coordinator earlier, this may not have gotten so bad.

 

[JTG]

They didn't win anything because their defense was average at best and their QB turned it over a bunch in the playoffs.

They were ranked 18th or better on defense every single year the Killer B's were together. 5/6 years ranked in the top half of the league

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They were ranked 18th or better on defense every single year the Killer B's were together. 5/6 years ranked in the top half of the league

Yeah the issue with the killer b era was they only played 1 playoff game together

 

[pistolpete11]

I'd rather have the headaches of AB and Bell than DJ.

Say what you will about them, but until the end, I never once questioned their effort on the field. It never seemed to affect the offense, either. Those offenses were top 10-top 5 type offenses and that's with a mediocre at best OC. The only thing I'd say is that they spent A LOT of money and draft capital on the offensive side and that played a role in why they were routinely giving up 40 points in the playoffs.

DJ, on the other hand, actively did not try. I'm not even just talking about the time he didn't block or didn't try to recover the fumble, although those were pretty glaring. The constant running backwards, out of bounds, or giving himself up so that he didn't take a hit is the type of stuff that drives me crazy. I think that actually has a negative impact on the team because other guys see that and think (even subconsciously) "If that guy isn't giving it his all, why am I?" Doubly so when he is being rewarded with the most targets.

I know Pickens had the 1 time he didn't block and I don't want to downplay that, but he just strikes me more as AB/Bell type than DJ type. That's still a big risk because both of those guys hung the team out to dry at the end. Those offenses were built around those guys and to not have them when you needed them is essentially wasting a year. Pickens could be better, could be worse, but if you get 4-5 years out of him being a top 5 WR in football, I think you take that tradeoff. Especially while you only have at best a few more years of Russ and Heyward, a few more years of prime Watt, etc. This team is setup to compete for the next few years and not having a true #1 WR would be a major blow.

 

[MrBrightside]

I'd rather have the headaches of AB and Bell than DJ.

Say what you will about them, but until the end, I never once questioned their effort on the field. It never seemed to affect the offense, either. Those offenses were top 10-top 5 type offenses and that's with a mediocre at best OC. The only thing I'd say is that they spent A LOT of money and draft capital on the offensive side and that played a role in why they were routinely giving up 40 points in the playoffs.

DJ, on the other hand, actively did not try. I'm not even just talking about the time he didn't block or didn't try to recover the fumble, although those were pretty glaring. The constant running backwards, out of bounds, or giving himself up so that he didn't take a hit is the type of stuff that drives me crazy. I think that actually has a negative impact on the team because other guys see that and think (even subconsciously) "If that guy isn't giving it his all, why am I?" Doubly so when he is being rewarded with the most targets.

I know Pickens had the 1 time he didn't block and I don't want to downplay that, but he just strikes me more as AB/Bell type than DJ type. That's still a big risk because both of those guys hung the team out to dry at the end. Those offenses were built around those guys and to not have them when you needed them is essentially wasting a year. Pickens could be better, could be worse, but if you get 4-5 years out of him being a top 5 WR in football, I think you take that tradeoff. Especially while you only have at best a few more years of Russ and Heyward, a few more years of prime Watt, etc. This team is setup to compete for the next few years and not having a true #1 WR would be a major blow.

I don't disagree with this and on balance think that they need to keep Pickens. That said, once these guys get paid, smaller issues can very frequently become larger issues.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't disagree with this and on balance think that they need to keep Pickens. That said, once these guys get paid, smaller issues can very frequently become larger issues.

For sure, but it's what type of issues you expect and whether or not you think Tomlin can manage them vs. the reward. I'd say it's worth the risk.

Things can of course change. If they sign Higgins or something, I'm much more open to the idea of moving on from him.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

And did you hear part of the reason why they had a contract dispute? Bell thought Ben had too much say it what was going on. Then he told his offensive line he'd be back and then ghosted them - DeCastro and Pouncey took public exception. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like the two dudes were good teammates. Two of the best Steelers ever but they couldn't stay out of their own way.

Except it does matter. And very clearly did to Tomlin afterwards also. Twitter beefing with an active teammate at your position? No big deal? K.

So we are now reducing down the original point. There were problems with the two dudes.

Bell wanted more guaranteed money. The Steelers weren't willing to give him it. The end.

 

[Peat]

I'd rather have the headaches of AB and Bell than DJ.

Say what you will about them, but until the end, I never once questioned their effort on the field. It never seemed to affect the offense, either. Those offenses were top 10-top 5 type offenses and that's with a mediocre at best OC. The only thing I'd say is that they spent A LOT of money and draft capital on the offensive side and that played a role in why they were routinely giving up 40 points in the playoffs.

DJ, on the other hand, actively did not try. I'm not even just talking about the time he didn't block or didn't try to recover the fumble, although those were pretty glaring. The constant running backwards, out of bounds, or giving himself up so that he didn't take a hit is the type of stuff that drives me crazy. I think that actually has a negative impact on the team because other guys see that and think (even subconsciously) "If that guy isn't giving it his all, why am I?" Doubly so when he is being rewarded with the most targets.

I know Pickens had the 1 time he didn't block and I don't want to downplay that, but he just strikes me more as AB/Bell type than DJ type. That's still a big risk because both of those guys hung the team out to dry at the end. Those offenses were built around those guys and to not have them when you needed them is essentially wasting a year. Pickens could be better, could be worse, but if you get 4-5 years out of him being a top 5 WR in football, I think you take that tradeoff. Especially while you only have at best a few more years of Russ and Heyward, a few more years of prime Watt, etc. This team is setup to compete for the next few years and not having a true #1 WR would be a major blow.

The reason I lean further towards moving on from Pickens than you is I regard Pickens as more of a DJ type, and maybe more so than DJ himself. That Dallas game where Fields threw one final pass to where Pickens should have been but wasn't because he didn't run full out on his route really sticks with me, particularly as it came after a lot of grumbling about his route running effort and accuracy from the QB School in the Fields era.

There's other low effort - or in some cases low IQ or reliability - plays that really stick with me too. Failing to get both feet in bounds on a touchdown last season. That jump to the sidelines this season. Getting taken out of some plays very easily vs the Browns. His drops are way up this season too, and some of them have been critical. If that whole worry about the "if that guy isn't giving his all, why am I" gets played out, then I think it does with George. Particularly with the accusations about him not showing up to meetings on time.

On the other side though, your point about this being a short window is also true. I can buy gambling on him behaving himself well enough through the window because otherwise they don't have a WR1 and that's a worse gamble. That said, by the numbers, I'm not sure he's in the top 10 WRs in football right now, and I'm not sure that's going to change unless he gets a lot more dialed in on his details.

 

[xlm34]

The reason I lean further towards moving on from Pickens than you is I regard Pickens as more of a DJ type, and maybe more so than DJ himself. That Dallas game where Fields threw one final pass to where Pickens should have been but wasn't because he didn't run full out on his route really sticks with me, particularly as it came after a lot of grumbling about his route running effort and accuracy from the QB School in the Fields era.

There's other low effort - or in some cases low IQ or reliability - plays that really stick with me too. Failing to get both feet in bounds on a touchdown last season. That jump to the sidelines this season. Getting taken out of some plays very easily vs the Browns. His drops are way up this season too, and some of them have been critical. If that whole worry about the "if that guy isn't giving his all, why am I" gets played out, then I think it does with George. Particularly with the accusations about him not showing up to meetings on time.

On the other side though, your point about this being a short window is also true. I can buy gambling on him behaving himself well enough through the window because otherwise they don't have a WR1 and that's a worse gamble. That said, by the numbers, I'm not sure he's in the top 10 WRs in football right now, and I'm not sure that's going to change unless he gets a lot more dialed in on his details.

The Dallas game is the thing the gives me the most pause about giving him a big deal. It’s a game that I think they win if Pickens doesn’t decide he just didn’t feel like playing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm tired of Pickens' immaturity, but Tomlin is the flat out best in the business getting headcases to be productive and knows when to pull the plug and move on. I'm fully trusting of Tomlin's decision making when it comes to moving on from Pickens, my opinion is whatever Tomlin decides to do. His track record of handling guys like AB, Brown, Claypool and DJ is just too good for me to second guess his judgement.