OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[Zirakzigil]

@Zirakzigil, would you be kind enough to update this thread title?

 

[TooManyHumans]

That touch cuts both ways.

1. It was effective on the first deep throw to Pickens because it was really tight coverage and it ultimately benefited Pickens because it gave him an opportunity to beat the DB physically.
2. The other 2 were deep throws were badly under thrown where Pickens had the DB by a couple steps. Way more luck than skills there.
3. Amazing touch on the first throw to Washington and the moon rock to Muth. Then the repeated that trajectory on other throws and it led to minimal gains by Washington.
4. The sidearm throw to Muth was probably my favorite play of the game. He did so many things so quickly on that play and the margin for error on any of those was tiny.

I was getting nervous when he went through that 1/7 stretch (granted one was a bad drop by Austin), but in the end he played a dang good game. Hope that he still had the legs to run sometimes because there were several opportunities that seemed like easier options (and we apparently need that option inside of the opponents 5 yard line).

Lastly, since teams aren’t likely to be game planning around Wilson running the ball like Fields I wonder if this ultimately opens up the running game more for Najee/Warren?

Wilson's deep throws were not that good at all and he can be a lot better on them. The big thing though is that he actually put air under them, which gave Pickens a chance to adjust and make a play. Everything from Fields is a laser on a line and if the throw is not perfect then the WR has basically no chance to make a play on it. I am far from a Wilson believer but even when rusty and inaccurate he throws a way more catchable ball than Fields does. Wilson is also way more in command of the protections, adjusting the plays, and reading the defense. He is simply a much better passer than Fields. I am very skeptical that at this point Fields can improve and learn to throw with touch.

Btw, Wilson looked plenty nimble enough to me moving around.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Wilson escaping a bit and rolling out while throwing darts doing so was nice to see. He definitely got comfortable and was dictating the offense throughout the second half.

The deep balls were nice and I feel like the DB’s got away with some PI on Pickens, the first one he caught had worse PI than the one where it was actually called.

On one throw to Pickens in the EZ, the DB clearly yanked his arm down well before the ball got there. Obvious pass interference but NFL officiating sucks. We all know this.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Wilson is also way more in command of the protections, adjusting the plays, and reading the defense.

The pre-snap stuff was very important, in my estimation.

 

[TooManyHumans]

That touch cuts both ways.

1. It was effective on the first deep throw to Pickens because it was really tight coverage and it ultimately benefited Pickens because it gave him an opportunity to beat the DB physically.
2. The other 2 were deep throws were badly under thrown where Pickens had the DB by a couple steps. Way more luck than skills there.
3. Amazing touch on the first throw to Washington and the moon rock to Muth. Then the repeated that trajectory on other throws and it led to minimal gains by Washington.
4. The sidearm throw to Muth was probably my favorite play of the game. He did so many things so quickly on that play and the margin for error on any of those was tiny.

I was getting nervous when he went through that 1/7 stretch (granted one was a bad drop by Austin), but in the end he played a dang good game. Hope that he still had the legs to run sometimes because there were several opportunities that seemed like easier options (and we apparently need that option inside of the opponents 5 yard line).

Lastly, since teams aren’t likely to be game planning around Wilson running the ball like Fields I wonder if this ultimately opens up the running game more for Najee/Warren?

But you cannot get those great plays from Pickens on underthrown balls when everything is on a line. That is the point. Even bad throws with touch at least give the WR a chance, and Pickens is a guy who thrives on having a chance to make a play on the ball. He won't win it all the time, but he will enough times to make defenses respect it. Early in the game the Jets were crowding the line and we kept throwing sideways. Once we started going deep it changed everything, and that is with some rather poor throws. If Wilson can clean those throws up some we might really have something. I am not a Wilson fan in general but he clearly is the QB moving forward.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Wilson played much better in the 2nd half. Credit where it's due for sure. But overall, even in the 2nd, he had throws that were flat out weak.

Yeah, some deep hits down the field, and I'm glad we're taking shots, but those throws were almost all badly underthrown, ending with circus catches at the end. I was simply not impressed with the arm strength of Wilson. I counted at least 5 balls in the dirt, 1 was 3 yards behind a guy on a WR screen.

To hear Tomlin say that Wison played excellent is just more of the same from the narcissist, trying to pat himself on the back for making a "lone ranger" call. Wilson missed badly on numerous throws and was bailed out repeated by absurd catches and bounces. He was given numerous short fields, including a TD from the 1 (thanks Beanie). This was not some sort of big improvement offensively over what we've seen.

Better teams (let's not forget the Jets are trash) are going to get to Wilson because he showed a near complete lack of athletic ability outside the pocket. He is never going to give you 1st downs with his legs. Any TD scored will be a goal line sneak.

I'm not giving any credit based on 1 half of great football, aided by a lot of great defensive plays and special teams work. Listening to Mike Tomlin gloat and talk about how well he's compensated is such self fullfilling grandeur and more of the same from a pompous, proud to be.....whatever.

Wilson's arm was not good enough to buoy his lack of ability to move outside the pocket. The rainbow throws and stuff outside the numbers were woefully weak armed.

We'll see where we end up the back half of the schedule. Last night didn't move the need at all from what we've already seen against numerous crappy teams.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

The pre-snap stuff was very important, in my estimation.

Another thing, and maybe it was because they were playing at home. But Russ's handling of the line and the hike calls led to no false starts or issues with presnap penalties.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I know, one game sample size and all, but it almost seems like Fields was holding them back. Wilson may not have had a perfect game, either but he could read a defense and he took actual chances than relied on his own to feet to gain yardage

Like I said, one game sample size, but what a productive sample.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Wilson played much better in the 2nd half. Credit where it's due for sure. But overall, even in the 2nd, he had throws that were flat out weak.

Yeah, some deep hits down the field, and I'm glad we're taking shots, but those throws were almost all badly underthrown, ending with circus catches at the end. I was simply not impressed with the arm strength of Wilson. I counted at least 5 balls in the dirt, 1 was 3 yards behind a guy on a WR screen.

To hear Tomlin say that Wison played excellent is just more of the same from the narcissist, trying to pat himself on the back for making a "lone ranger" call. Wilson missed badly on numerous throws and was bailed out repeated by absurd catches and bounces. He was given numerous short fields, including a TD from the 1 (thanks Beanie). This was not some sort of big improvement offensively over what we've seen.

Better teams (let's not forget the Jets are trash) are going to get to Wilson because he showed a near complete lack of athletic ability outside the pocket. He is never going to give you 1st downs with his legs. Any TD scored will be a goal line sneak.

I'm not giving any credit based on 1 half of great football, aided by a lot of great defensive plays and special teams work. Listening to Mike Tomlin gloat and talk about how well he's compensated is such self fullfilling grandeur and more of the same from a pompous, proud to be.....whatever.

Wilson's arm was not good enough to buoy his lack of ability to move outside the pocket. The rainbow throws and stuff outside the numbers were woefully weak armed.

We'll see where we end up the back half of the schedule. Last night didn't move the need at all from what we've already seen against numerous crappy teams.

All valid points. I'm not sure what to make of Wilson just yet.

But unfortunately I think this will end up being a case of: same dog, different fleas. Meaning that JF and Wilson each possess different traits, but each of their limitations will prevent this team from truly contending.

 

[WickedWrister]

I don’t know why but this graphic has me cracking up

 

[TooManyHumans]

We have had plenty of short fields prior to this and rarely converted. This was Wilson's first game back from injury and first game with this team. Even with the crappy throws at times he was clearly more in control of the offense and things ran way smoother. I get being skeptical but this was a step in the right direction. Wilson has a lot to clean up to convince me he is anything more than a one year stop gap here, but he is also the QB moving forward right now. If this is as good as it gets with him then we move on next year, but I am still not going back to Fields unless things get worse and not better.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not here but the QB talk with the Steelers is downright toxic right now

I’ve been called both a Wilson fanboy and a Fields fanboy for saying “Wilson was awful to start the game but great to end the game”. We’ve had legitimate discussions here that I think have been fair but there is some downright venom in the QB talk elsewhere among Steelers fans, to the point where it’s a pretty bad look.

 

[xlm34]

Not here but the QB talk with the Steelers is downright toxic right now

I’ve been called both a Wilson fanboy and a Fields fanboy for saying “Wilson was awful to start the game but great to end the game”. We’ve had legitimate discussions here that I think have been fair but there is some downright venom in the QB talk elsewhere among Steelers fans, to the point where it’s a pretty bad look.

People get really touchy with QBs. I think most Steelers fans should be absolutely thrilled with how the QB room has come together this year, regardless of what they thought coming in to the year. Fields looked better than pretty much everyone expected and Wilson might have something left in the tank.

I’m still kind of skeptical on how things play out down the stretch, but we wanted league average QB play this year and we’re getting it. Hard to complain too much.

 

[Empoleon8771]

People get really touchy with QBs. I think most Steelers fans should be absolutely thrilled with how the QB room has come together this year, regardless of what they thought coming in to the year. Fields looked better than pretty much everyone expected and Wilson might have something left in the tank.

I’m still kind of skeptical on how things play out down the stretch, but we wanted league average QB play this year and we’re getting it. Hard to complain too much.

Yeah it’s silly, I said “Wilson was great in the 2nd-4th quarters” and got some long winged response about how he wasn’t good in the 2nd and “I don’t know why Wilson and Fields fans need to embellish everything”. I was also called an idiot for saying “their WR talent matters more than who’s playing at QB” because “you’d have to be dumb to think a WR matters more to an offense than a QB”. People are just really touchy about it and I don’t get why.

I was obviously vocal about wanting Fields to play and expected Wilson to be bad, but he shut me up and played great after a bad start and I’m happy to stick with him going forward. I just don’t understand why people can’t be more impartial like I feel I am being with the QB spot.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Hopefully khan can bring in another wr

 

[UnrealMachine]

Wilson's deep throws were not that good at all and he can be a lot better on them. The big thing though is that he actually put air under them, which gave Pickens a chance to adjust and make a play. Everything from Fields is a laser on a line and if the throw is not perfect then the WR has basically no chance to make a play on it. I am far from a Wilson believer but even when rusty and inaccurate he throws a way more catchable ball than Fields does. Wilson is also way more in command of the protections, adjusting the plays, and reading the defense. He is simply a much better passer than Fields. I am very skeptical that at this point Fields can improve and learn to throw with touch.

Btw, Wilson looked plenty nimble enough to me moving around.

Careful to declare Wilson a “much better passer” when he literally completed 55% of his passes yesterday to Fields’ 66% on the season (against much better teams). Also, deep passes were Fields’ strength but for some reason they were reluctant to call that play often enough for Fields - which never made any sense given the stacked boxes by the defenses. Not even trying to sell Wilson short because, again, I love the heave ‘n pray as opposed to never throwing a ball past 10 yards. But to act like that demonstrates he’s a better passer than Fields I’d take issue with.

 

[Gold Diamond]

For all their flaws, Wilson and Fields are LIGHT YEARS better than the duo we had there for most of last season (Pickett and Trubisky).

Baby steps.

 

[xlm34]

Yeah it’s silly, I said “Wilson was great in the 2nd-4th quarters” and got some long winged response about how he wasn’t good in the 2nd and “I don’t know why Wilson and Fields fans need to embellish everything”. I was also called an idiot for saying “their WR talent matters more than who’s playing at QB” because “you’d have to be dumb to think a WR matters more to an offense than a QB”. People are just really touchy about it and I don’t get why.

I was obviously vocal about wanting Fields to play and expected Wilson to be bad, but he shut me up and played great after a bad start and I’m happy to stick with him going forward. I just don’t understand why people can’t be more impartial like I feel I am being with the QB spot.

Because this is the internet and once you have an opinion you can’t change it based on new information. And people care a lot about being right

And your point about WRs is totally fair. If Pickens decided he didn’t feel like trying like he did against the Cowboys, then this game looks a lot different.

 

[Peat]

I don't think I've ever seen a QB attract as much instant love and hate as Fields. I suspect some of it is the Steelers' situation but I've also seen a few frankly deranged Bears blow ins too. Which of course then rubs off on people.

I do think I might disagree with you about the WR talent mattering more than who's at QB, Empo. I think the right QB can get a lot more out of WRs - certainly did with Pickens - and while nobody wants Jefferson and Austin to be WR2 and WR3, Jefferson's history suggests there is meat on the bone. There's still a hard ceiling with the WRs, but I think Wilson with these guys might upgrade the team more than Fields with Williams.

And your point about WRs is totally fair. If Pickens decided he didn’t feel like trying like he did against the Cowboys, then this game looks a lot different.

I do kind of idly wonder how long Pickens will keep trying for Wilson. I'm really happy to see him play like that, but don't want to roster a guy who just kills QBs when bored of waiting for the ball either.

 

[xlm34]

I don't think I've ever seen a QB attract as much instant love and hate as Fields. I suspect some of it is the Steelers' situation but I've also seen a few frankly deranged Bears blow ins too. Which of course then rubs off on people.

I do think I might disagree with you about the WR talent mattering more than who's at QB, Empo. I think the right QB can get a lot more out of WRs - certainly did with Pickens - and while nobody wants Jefferson and Austin to be WR2 and WR3, Jefferson's history suggests there is meat on the bone. There's still a hard ceiling with the WRs, but I think Wilson with these guys might upgrade the team more than Fields with Williams.



I do kind of idly wonder how long Pickens will keep trying for Wilson. I'm really happy to see him play like that, but don't want to roster a guy who just kills QBs when bored of waiting for the ball either.

Yeah I have no clue what causes him to shut down. The Cowboys game came a week after he had a 7 catch 113 yard performance so it wasn’t like he was pouting after a bad performance. He’s just a strange dude.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Careful to declare Wilson a “much better passer” when he literally completed 55% of his passes yesterday to Fields’ 66% on the season (against much better teams). Also, deep passes were Fields’ strength but for some reason they were reluctant to call that play often enough for Fields - which never made any sense given the stacked boxes by the defenses. Not even trying to sell Wilson short because, again, I love the heave ‘n pray as opposed to never throwing a ball past 10 yards. But to act like that demonstrates he’s a better passer than Fields I’d take issue with.

9.1 yards per completion. Completion percentage is way overrated. And they don't throw deep as much with Fields because he does not throw deep balls well. He has a strong arm but fires everything in. The pass has to be perfect or the WR has no chance to catch it. Fields also doesn't read a defense well and doesn't make adjustments at the line as well. These are not meant as compliments of Wilson, who I am tepid on at best. Fields is simply really limited.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For all their flaws, Wilson and Fields are LIGHT YEARS better than the duo we had there for most of last season (Pickett and Trubisky).

Baby steps.

Yeah the two are reasonably a mediocre bridge QB with Wilson and a high end backup with elite athleticism with Fields. Both of those are good improvements on what they've had in the past few yeras.

In fact, I'd argue that Wilson would be their best QB dating back to before Ben's retirement as well if he keeps playing like he did yesterday. Wilson started 2/10 with like 60 passing yards and finished 14/19 with 200 passing yards after that.

 

[pistolpete11]

Not here but the QB talk with the Steelers is downright toxic right now

I’ve been called both a Wilson fanboy and a Fields fanboy for saying “Wilson was awful to start the game but great to end the game”. We’ve had legitimate discussions here that I think have been fair but there is some downright venom in the QB talk elsewhere among Steelers fans, to the point where it’s a pretty bad look.

Some sports fans would rather be right than see their team win nowadays.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Careful to declare Wilson a “much better passer” when he literally completed 55% of his passes yesterday to Fields’ 66% on the season (against much better teams). Also, deep passes were Fields’ strength but for some reason they were reluctant to call that play often enough for Fields - which never made any sense given the stacked boxes by the defenses. Not even trying to sell Wilson short because, again, I love the heave ‘n pray as opposed to never throwing a ball past 10 yards. But to act like that demonstrates he’s a better passer than Fields I’d take issue with.

Wilson went like 14/19 after an extremely bad start. He also showed his patented moon ball that Fields simply does not have.

Last night pretty conclusively showed that Wilson was a better passer than Fields. Fields has a massive advantage on Wilson in athleticism (although I think Wilson has more than he showed yesterday) but Wilson is definitely the better passer.

 

[Gold Diamond]

At least we aren't the Browns. That franchise is beyond cursed.