The Oilers are an old team
- Thread starter villacco
- Start date
Flames fans don't really have a leg to stand on with that when their franchise highlight for the last 30 years is basically the one single run in 2004. So I just chuckle when they try to push that angle as if people in Calgary don't still reminiscence about 2004 all the time twenty years later even.
EdmFlyersfan
Registered User
Not just that they are aging out, look at the last decade or so and see how many teams that lose in the finals make a repeat the following year and win prior to Panthers (you have to go back to 2008)...a lot of stats are going against them.
Bank Shot
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- Jan 18, 2006
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7 of the last 9 years have had repeat finalists.
Not exactly unicorn territory.
No one is guaranteed to make it back, but it also hasn't been uncommon lately.
Nogatco Rd
Translator spent all my HF cash
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Not sure if it's been linked yet but there is a great thread by @pnep in the HoH subforum with a ton of data about the oldest and youngest teams throughout NHL history.
Here's one table that seems especially relevant to this thread: a list of SC winning teams, sorted by the champs' average player age as compared to the league average that year.
I do have some questions about the methodology - namely, how that poster calculated team age (I'm assuming it was weighted by GP, so that a 35 year old who played 80 games counts twice as much towards the average as a 35 year old who played 40 games), and whether we might more accurately capture what we mean by "old team" or "young team" by adjusting the criteria. For example, adding up the ages of the goal scorers for each goal scored, and dividing by total number of goals a team scored in a season, same for assists, etc.
Food for thought either way.
Here's one table that seems especially relevant to this thread: a list of SC winning teams, sorted by the champs' average player age as compared to the league average that year.
I do have some questions about the methodology - namely, how that poster calculated team age (I'm assuming it was weighted by GP, so that a 35 year old who played 80 games counts twice as much towards the average as a 35 year old who played 40 games), and whether we might more accurately capture what we mean by "old team" or "young team" by adjusting the criteria. For example, adding up the ages of the goal scorers for each goal scored, and dividing by total number of goals a team scored in a season, same for assists, etc.
Food for thought either way.
Hank Plank
Registered User
Many Flames fans do that no doubt, not me. We lost in 2004 Iggy was a no show just like 97 was in game 7.
pnep
Registered User
average age calculated by individual games.
yes, 25 year old who played 20 PO games counts twice as much towards the average as a 35 year old who played 10 PO games.
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How can you be a legit contender with that goaltending and defense? They had the easiest path a team has had in decades to a cup finals and still lost.
One fluke year, in which they barely scraped by a 3rd string goalie, does not make a team a contender.
CantHaveTkachev
Legends
Oilers faced a 3rd place team followed by 3 straight Division winners and you're still going with this narrative eh? pretty pathetic cope
btw, Oilers have 6 playoff series wins in the past 3 years, more than any other Western Conference team....that's a legit contender
Many people in Calgary period, lets face it that was the biggest thing to happen to the city outside of the floods in the last 20 years.
Ask Florida if losing in the Cup Final didn't help prepare them this year, I think they would certainly say the experience helped a lot.
No offense to Iggy either, but he is not a McDavid tier player.
Because the D and goaltending isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Ekholm is one of the most underrated D in the league, was damn near tops in the league for plus minus. Bouchard is one of the up and coming 25 and under D in the league.
Top 5 in the league for best goals against under Knoblaugh, second best in the playoffs for teams past round 1, about even with Florida, better than the Rangers with Shesterkin in both the playoffs and regular season (under Knoblaugh).
A lot of D is coaching structure, Flames fans should know that first hand, Sutter improved their defensive metrics massively, unfortunately for them, Daryl is an old school coach who isn't much of a people person and that has a shelf life. Knoblaugh and Coffey are good defensive coaches that don't have Daryl's personality issues.
This board was also crying up and down that Florida's D sucked after they gave away Weegar and lost some other pieces ... infact I recall some people saying they had the worst D in the league (lol) or thereabouts only about 18 months ago. Maurice instituted structure and was able to make players like Mountour and OEL (whipping boys on this site) work. Coaching matters.
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Fun fact - that's also an NHL record for number of playoff series wins that can be explained away by idiots and trolls.
Woodcroft's Oilers and Knoblaugh's Oilers are massively different defensively, the Oilers play much more like the Crosby Penguins of a few years ago in the playoffs these days. Woodcroft was all about just run n' gun, Knoblaugh/Coffey instituted much better structure.
They're not the same team at all, if almost 70 games in the regular season wasn't enough of a sample size, four full playoff rounds and multiple game 7s more than proved it.
Even in game 7, Florida was held to only 2 goals, that's not too bad, generally if you hold a team to 2 or less you have a fairly good chance of winning.
Florida, Dallas, Vancouver, LA all saw their offense grind to a halt the longer all of their series went on against Edmonton. None of them could average even 2 goals per game flat in the final 3-4 games of their series'.
If that happens once, ok, but four times in a playoffs, no way does that happen just by random happenstance. You have to be playing within a structure to do that, the forwards in the league are way too good to be shut down by mirage defense, the coaching/scouting in the playoffs is way too good to not pick up on exploitable flaws.
They're not the same team at all, if almost 70 games in the regular season wasn't enough of a sample size, four full playoff rounds and multiple game 7s more than proved it.
Even in game 7, Florida was held to only 2 goals, that's not too bad, generally if you hold a team to 2 or less you have a fairly good chance of winning.
Florida, Dallas, Vancouver, LA all saw their offense grind to a halt the longer all of their series went on against Edmonton. None of them could average even 2 goals per game flat in the final 3-4 games of their series'.
If that happens once, ok, but four times in a playoffs, no way does that happen just by random happenstance. You have to be playing within a structure to do that, the forwards in the league are way too good to be shut down by mirage defense, the coaching/scouting in the playoffs is way too good to not pick up on exploitable flaws.
starting to think this thread is maybe just about how you don't like the oilers lol
Not only that, 3/4 last Cup champions had previously recently played in a Cup Final prior.
If anything having experience in a Cup Final is significant for team development IMO.
Again ask Florida if making it last year (and they got their ass blown out) didn't help them be a better team this year, I'm sure they would say it was a huge advantage for them to have that experience.
Playing in a Cup Final, playing in a game 7 no less I think makes you a better team. There's nothing that can prepare you for that other than experiencing it first hand, once you have gone through that not much is going to phase you.
Mr Positive
Cap Crunch Incoming
- Nov 20, 2013
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The most important players are still in their primes
There is concern in the future. The group of Hyman, Ekholm, Nugent-Hopkins and Kane will need to be replaced. But, they are good now.
There is concern in the future. The group of Hyman, Ekholm, Nugent-Hopkins and Kane will need to be replaced. But, they are good now.
It's funny how these threads start off with the OP pontificating about how the Oilers are somehow bad in a faint attempt of a neutral tone, only for the laughable reasons for winning like "they only won because there was a crescent moon in round 2, the Starts traditionally don't play well on Sundays when Game 6 happened, and I heard that Doughty spent too much time at the beach in Round 1" to come out once people call them out for their BS.
Czechboy
Češi do toho!
- Apr 15, 2018
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My concerns in order
Our D is worse now than game 7
Our g has not improved
Age of the forwards. Do agree it is an older group. But the key ones are young. If they can trade Kane or LTIR him that gives hollo some more space. A lot of us have forgotten about Xavier B too. He should be good for an injury callup or two! I wanted waisted but Xavier b is not a bust.
Our D is worse now than game 7
Our g has not improved
Age of the forwards. Do agree it is an older group. But the key ones are young. If they can trade Kane or LTIR him that gives hollo some more space. A lot of us have forgotten about Xavier B too. He should be good for an injury callup or two! I wanted waisted but Xavier b is not a bust.
They have the same D as in the playoffs, probably an improving version of it because Bouchard and especially Broberg have growth coming in their games.
Skinner could be better but he also got valuable experience, can't get any more intense than a game 7 of a Cup Final. I think that will help him, he's still a young goalie himself.
If they continue to play D like they did in the playoffs they'll be fine, LA/Van/Dallas/even Florida all had major problems scoring goals the longer all those series went along which indicates if nothing else a very good coaching staff that makes adjustments as series go along.
ChaoticOrange
Registered User
If Savoie makes the team out of camp and Perry sits, the entire forward group goes from 31 years old on average to 29.8 years old on average.
It's a mature group, but Perry and Ryan are definitely dragging the average up
onetweasy
"That's just like, your opinion, man"
onetweasy
"That's just like, your opinion, man"
You just make stuff up.
Tell yourself whatever you want.
Bottom line, the Oilers are rubbing elbows with the other contenders in the league and the Flames continue to exist……and that’s about it.
Enjoy the Conroy & Iggy retool
miscs75
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2014
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Fine, no sarcasm anymore. From now on I will be the Hank Hill of hfboards. Instead of propane and propane accessories, it will be the New York Islanders and New York Islanders affiliates.
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