The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part III

[supsens]

Well he seems to not be having much issue right now.

We shouldn’t have traded him (I don’t think he’s a star in the making or anything) but our coaching staff was horrible last year in the ahl. How can anyone be properly evaluated with those buffooons in charge.

Other GMs always get dorion to agree to some dumb stuff like this. I mean. Sharks convinced him to send them a 5th for their 6th lmao. Like, did they convince him that boedker was better than Hoffman?

Sending them a guy to play AHL hockey is not a big deal. Perhaps he was required if we wanted Norris instead of some other low end like Perron.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Well he seems to not be having much issue right now.

We shouldn’t have traded him (I don’t think he’s a star in the making or anything) but our coaching staff was horrible last year in the ahl. How can anyone be properly evaluated with those buffooons in charge.

Other GMs always get dorion to agree to some dumb stuff like this. I mean. Sharks convinced him to send them a 5th for their 6th lmao. Like, did they convince him that boedker was better than Hoffman?

@BondraTime has alluded to Perron being unhappy and wanting out of Ottawa.

I agree with people being upset that we gave up a throw in and now he's lighting up the AHL, but to me if what @BondraTime was posting previously is accurate, the Perron inclusion makes sense. Nobody was giving us an asset for a skilled 7th rounder who only put up 15 points last year. If we threw him into the San Jose trade, I'd guess the league likely knew he was available, and nobody wanted him. We wanted to move on from a disgruntled prospect.

The Sens obviously completely mishandled him. I also think it's a fair criticism that we end up having to attach extra things in trades that we shouldn't, but given what we know, I don't think that's what happened in this specific instance.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

He's only not an NHL prospect in the eyes of someone with specific agenda when they post. I am sure the same posters said Sorenson wasnt an NHL prospect too.

You love to throw around that word agenda lol. Doesn’t matter what we think about Perron, he asked for a trade and had no value

 

[GCK]

Well he seems to not be having much issue right now.

We shouldn’t have traded him (I don’t think he’s a star in the making or anything) but our coaching staff was horrible last year in the ahl. How can anyone be properly evaluated with those buffooons in charge.

Other GMs always get dorion to agree to some dumb stuff like this. I mean. Sharks convinced him to send them a 5th for their 6th lmao. Like, did they convince him that boedker was better than Hoffman?

The Hoffman deal was a one off. Dorion lost all value once Melinda and Erik’s complaint went public. At the TDL Dorion was asking Philly for Sandheim and a 1st. Hextall laughed but at least Dorion wasn’t laying down.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

@BondraTime has alluded to Perron being unhappy and wanting out of Ottawa.

I agree with people being upset that we gave up a throw in and now he's lighting up the AHL, but to me if what @BondraTime was posting previously is accurate, the Perron inclusion makes sense. Nobody was giving us an asset for a skilled 7th rounder who only put up 15 points last year. If we threw him into the San Jose trade, I'd guess the league likely knew he was available, and nobody wanted him. We wanted to move on from a disgruntled prospect.

The Sens obviously completely mishandled him. I also think it's a fair criticism that we end up having to attach extra things in trades that we shouldn't, but given what we know, I don't think that's what happened in this specific instance.

But we created the conditions of him wanting to leave lol.... it’s a problem right from the start.

Eh. We didn’t get much in return for karlsson. Plus we added a solid young ahler. It’s not out of the ordinary for dorion.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

the awkward moment when "throw in" Francis Perron has more points than Balcers

Another awkward moment could be the fact that Chris Tierney has the same amount of points, as EK65 .

 

[danielpalfredsson]

But we created the conditions of him wanting to leave lol.... it’s a problem right from the start.

Eh. We didn’t get much in return for karlsson. Plus we added a solid young ahler. It’s not out of the ordinary for dorion.

I don't disagree with you at all. I even alluded to that as a criticism of the Senators organization in my post.

Ultimately, your original criticism was that Dorion gets hustled into adding these extra pieces on our side that shouldn't be there. In this situation, Perron wasn't an extra piece that shouldn't have been there. He was a guy who a fairly reputable poster with QMJHL ties has claimed wanted out. We don't know for sure, but it's reasonable to assume that Dorion may have shopped him and had no takers given he has never been a top level prospect, and was coming off of a terrible season. Teams try not to waste their limited amount of contract spots in that way.

The Hoffman trade is a good example of us getting hustled in that way, I agree with that. I also agree that it is a problem. I just don't think Perron being included in the Karlsson deal is a fair example of that.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Another awkward moment could be the fact that Chris Tierney has the same amount of points, as EK65 .

Karlsson has 14 points in his last 16 games. He's also been on the ice for 24 minutes a game. This is in spite of San Jose being stacked defensively. He's been a very important player for them this season.

I really badly want San Jose to miss the playoffs and hand us a lottery pick, but I don't think that's going to happen, and other than us winning the lottery with one of those picks, I don't think that there's any way to spin this trade as a negative for San Jose. Karlsson's slow start is going to be in the rear view very soon, and his poor level of play was greatly exaggerated by people not watching him. Early in, he was greatly altering his style, but in most (not all) games, he was playing fantastic hockey and completely controlling the game for San Jose when he was on the ice.

 

[justafan22]

uhh

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

i make fun of dorion a lot but trading Phaneuf for Gaborik was such a win. i mean it helps that gaborik doesnt play anymore lol but gj dorion

 

[bert]

You love to throw around that word agenda lol. Doesn’t matter what we think about Perron, he asked for a trade and had no value

Quote please.... If you are making things up then yes you have an agenda. He clearly has some value why would they want him in the deal? He is now leading a top team in the AHL in scoring at 22 years old. No value?... Ok man.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Quote please.... If you are making things up then yes you have an agenda. He clearly has some value why would they want him in the deal? He is now leading a top team in the AHL in scoring at 22 years old. No value?... Ok man.

I was just going by what reputable people on this site said, like bondratime. Im not making it up. He was just a throw in in the deal because of contract numbers most likely. He did have little to no value at the time.

 

[BondraTime]

Quote please.... If you are making things up then yes you have an agenda. He clearly has some value why would they want him in the deal? He is now leading a top team in the AHL in scoring at 22 years old. No value?... Ok man.

Pretty sure it's based of me posting that I heard he was unhappy back in the summer, which I had heard through a very reliable source. Heard it wasn't exactly a secret.

He is a good prospect, was handled terribly by the organisation.

 

[bert]

I was just going by what reputable people on this site said, like bondratime. Im not making it up. He was just a throw in in the deal because of contract numbers most likely. He did have little to no value at the time.

No he has value stop saying he doesn't. If the sens gave up on all the high end skill prospects at 21 years old then they wouldnt have Dzingel or Hoffman and many others over the last 25 years. He wasnt a throw in to the deal, clearly San Jose who drafted Meier watched them play together in JR when they went to the memorial cup. It was just more terrible asset management from Dorion. Part of the reason he was likely traded was he was a certain scouts pick that they fired for no reason other than politics this summer.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

No he has value stop saying he doesn't. If the sens gave up on all the high end skill prospects at 21 years old then they wouldnt have Dzingel or Hoffman and many others over the last 25 years. He wasnt a throw in to the deal, clearly San Jose who drafted Meier watched them play together in JR when they went to the memorial cup. It was just more terrible asset management from Dorion. Part of the reason he was likely traded was he was a certain scouts pick that they fired for no reason other than politics this summer.

He has more value now. He had no value in the summer. It would be like if the sens traded Gagne right now, and yes he most definitely was a throw in to that deal. Having a good start to the year doesn’t change that fact. Let’s agree to disagree though

 

[bert]

He has more value now. He had no value in the summer. It would be like if the sens traded Gagne right now, and yes he most definitely was a throw in to that deal. Having a good start to the year doesn’t change that fact. Let’s agree to disagree though

His pedigree of becoming an elite Jr player in a late developing body and an organization that understands player development with skill knows he had value. Just because you dont doesnt change these facts. San Jose scouted him in jr and got a real good look at him as he developed. Now he is turning into a player. You can ignore these facts that I am presenting to you all you want.

Gagner regressed as he developed Perron only got better and at 19 was a way better player. Comparing the two when they are polar opposites in just about every way from playing style, size, skill and development shows how you didnt watch either or follow their careers.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

His pedigree of becoming an elite Jr player in a late developing body and an organization that understands player development with skill knows he had value. Just because you dont doesnt change these facts. San Jose scouted him in jr and got a real good look at him as he developed. Now he is turning into a player. You can ignore these facts that I am presenting to you all you want.

Gagner regressed as he developed Perron only got better and at 19 was a way better player. Comparing the two when they are polar opposites in just about every way from playing style, size, skill and development shows how you didnt watch either or follow their careers.

Again, ageee to disagree. We’re not changing our minds here. I wasn’t comparing Gagne to Perron in talent or style by the way. It’s was just a hypothetical about value. I personally don’t think a late round pick who had two disappointing seasons in the ahl has value, but if you think otherwise that’s cool. We all views prospects differently

 

[Burrowsaurus]

lol where even is gagne?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

lol where even is gagne?

He’s playing, but definitely a bust.

 

[Que]

I’m pretty sure Perron wasn’t a throw in for the Karlsson deal. If I had to guess we had to add a small something to include Balcers or Tierney over another lesser piece.

He had value back then - though GM’s knew he was unhappy with his time here. It is what it is, and it’s unfortunate at that.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I’m pretty sure Perron wasn’t a throw in for the Karlsson deal. If I had to guess we had to add a small something to include Balcers or Tierney over another lesser piece.

He had value back then - though GM’s knew he was unhappy with his time here. It is what it is, and it’s unfortunate at that.

My guess is that Perron wanted out and that Dorion was willing to give him his wish. The Sens certainly did not use him like a valued player in Belleville. I don't think it had anything to do with evening up the value in a trade they were getting Erik Karlsson in.

 

[Que]

My guess is that Perron wanted out and that Dorion was willing to give him his wish. The Sens certainly did not use him like a valued player in Belleville. I don't think it had anything to do with evening up the value in a trade they were getting Erik Karlsson in.

Well there was like three other players in Belleville at the time ahead of him on the depth chart, right? Guys that had put in their dues and such.

Perron was Q player of the year in ‘16, and while it is the Q that award does mean something. A highly talented player with a n attitude problem. Ugh, broken record.

I don’t think Dorion said to Wilson “Oh, before we complete the biggest trade in the last decade would you like a free prospect? He’s doesn’t like it here.”

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Well there was like three other players in Belleville at the time ahead of him on the depth chart, right? Guys that had put in their dues and such.

Perron was Q player of the year in ‘16, and while it is the Q that award does mean something. A highly talented player with a n attitude problem. Ugh, broken record.

I don’t think Dorion said to Wilson “Oh, before we complete the biggest trade in the last decade would you like a free prospect? He’s doesn’t like it here.”

So you are saying your guess is better than my guess. cool

 

[Que]

So you are saying your guess is better than my guess. cool

No, not at all. I am sorry if it comes off like that (which it probably does, damn internet). More just trying to start a conversation. I really don’t remember how Perron was deployed in Belleville or how the depth chart was structured.

And commenting on the “Dorion is giving away an asset” or “Perron was worthless” insinuations are hyperbole.

Guys get disgruntled. Players will want out. It does take away from their value but doesn’t make them worth nothing.

 

[Icelevel]

Our drafting since 2015 is looking fantastic.