The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part III

[Acidrain66]

Just saw this on reddit.



Damn, dorion. close your mouth.

Edit: click on the link. people are speculating that dorion was behind that burner account that used to support the sens.

Omg it's like that 76 ers G.M. situation..

 

[Acidrain66]

Karlsson was Forsberg's pick and Stone was Lowes' pick.

Dorion also oversaw the 2011 draft where he basically whiffed on all but one of 4 top 60 picks.

He's an average scout. The best pick he was probably directly responsible for was Pageau.

Loads of teams do as well as what you listed. Look at Nashville, Anaheim, and St Louis.

Between 08 and 13 Anaheim drafted Gardiner, Schultz, Vatanen, Palmieri, Fowler, Smith-Pelley, Rakell, Gibson, W Karlsson, Josh Manson, Lindholm and Freddie Andersen.

Yes now that same Swede scout is in Buffalo's scouting team

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Just saw this on reddit.



Damn, dorion. close your mouth.

Edit: click on the link. people are speculating that dorion was behind that burner account that used to support the sens.

I knew it. Back when people said that that was Dorion, I had a suspicion that it really was him. What a dumb dumb.

I know there are still accounts on this forum too.

 

[SensFactor]

Pretty insane how Sakic landed them Girard, Bowers and a 1st for Duchene. A 19 year old puckmoving D, an 18 year old prospect and a 1st rounder

It’s been a week and I still can’t fathom how Chris Tierney and Josh Norris are the biggest pieces coming back for Erik Karlsson. How is a GM this bad at his job? What were Vegas and Dallas offering?

That's the return for 1 yr of Karlsson. What more do you expect? 6 pieces including first rounder for a non extended Karlsson is a decent return.

 

[BondraTime]

That's the return for 1 yr of Karlsson. What more do you expect? 6 pieces including first rounder for a non extended Karlsson is a decent return.

I'd expect at least 1 piece of quality for the best D in the league, we got 6 pieces that won't do much.

Give me 1 piece of quality over 6 pieces of "meh/ew"

 

[swiftwin]

Pretty insane how Sakic landed them Girard, Bowers and a 1st for Duchene. A 19 year old puckmoving D, an 18 year old prospect and a 1st rounder

It’s been a week and I still can’t fathom how Chris Tierney and Josh Norris are the biggest pieces coming back for Erik Karlsson. How is a GM this bad at his job? What were Vegas and Dallas offering?

You do know we also got a 1st round pick and two prospects, right?!!? On top of Tierney and DeMelo... on top of a 2nd round pick and another conditional 1st. Don't even try to argue that Colorado somehow got a better deal.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Does anyone know of a player that Dorion personally scouted first?

Because I know Karlsson wasn't it. I don't really think Stone was either.

The most input Dorion would have had would be drafting in the first round. And we've been trash in the first round.

Anyway I think what Dorion was good at was being a draft facilitator. His actual scouting ability is average.

 

[SensFactor]

I'd expect at least 1 piece of quality for the best D in the league, we got 6 pieces that won't do much.

Give me 1 piece of quality over 6 pieces of "meh/ew"

I agree, but at least we didn't lose him for nothing like the isles with Tavares.

 

[Goose of Reason]

Just saw this on reddit.



Damn, dorion. close your mouth.

Edit: click on the link. people are speculating that dorion was behind that burner account that used to support the sens.

Holy shit Dorion was behind that account that always praised management wasn't he.....

 

[BondraTime]

You do know we also got a 1st round pick and two prospects, right?!!? On top of Tierney and DeMelo... on top of a 2nd round pick and another conditional 1st. Don't even try to argue that Colorado somehow got a better deal.

You go realize Colorado also got a 2nd, 2 prospects and a 3rd, right?!?

Our 1st is the best piece in either deal. Girard is the 2nd best piece in either deal. Colorado also got a 2nd, and a 3rd and 2 prospects to go with that as well....

Duchene is nowhere near as valuable as Karlsson. Colorado got a gigantically better deal.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

You do know we also got a 1st round pick and two prospects, right?!!? On top of Tierney and DeMelo... on top of a 2nd round pick and another conditional 1st. Don't even try to argue that Colorado somehow got a better deal.

They got a much better return than we did.

 

[BondraTime]

Don't even try to argue that Colorado somehow got a better deal.

I gave it an attempt. Would be happy to hear how you argue we got the better deal.

Karlsson worth more than Duchene, I think is a fair assumption (though Duchene did return more)

Girard > Tierny - Give me the 19 year old top 4 D over the 24 year old 2nd/3rd line C
Sens 1st > SJ 1st - Should be obvious
Bowers = Norris - Both similar low upside prospects
Kamenev = Balcers - Both productive AHLers
Nsh 2nd = SJ 2nd - Similar pick ranges
Sens 3rd > DeMelo - Guy that wasn't given a qualifying offer vs 64th overall, simple

Won't count Hammond.

Not even worth a discussion in my mind

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Hilarious how people can bring up how we got SIX PIECES for EK as a good thing with a straight face.

It could have been 15 pieces for all I care. If they're all mediocre it doesn't matter.

You trade a generational player, you have to get at least one elite player back, whether it's a prospect or a roster guy. A good GM also adds at least one top-6/top-4 player to that.

Dorion got a bunch of third liners, and a (very) late 1st round pick.

 

[HavlatMach9]

Hilarious how people can bring up how we got SIX PIECES for EK as a good thing with a straight face.

it was a fine trade. Find a new slant.

 

[Studzle]

Holy **** Dorion was behind that account that always praised management wasn't he.....

There’s also a tweet about how the Sens would never take Merkley (San Jose) due to character issues.

Confirmed x2 and probably another reason we didn’t take him.

 

[swiftwin]

I gave it an attempt. Would be happy to hear how you argue we got the better deal.

Karlsson worth more than Duchene, I think is a fair assumption (though Duchene did return more)

Girard > Tierny - Give me the 19 year old top 4 D over the 24 year old 2nd/3rd line C
Sens 1st > SJ 1st - Should be obvious
Bowers = Norris - Both similar low upside prospects
Kamenev = Balcers - Both productive AHLers
Nsh 2nd = SJ 2nd - Similar pick ranges
Sens 3rd > DeMelo - Guy that wasn't given a qualifying offer vs 64th overall, simple

Won't count Hammond.

Not even worth a discussion in my mind

I thought it was just the 1st, Girard and Bowers like the poster said. I forgot about the other parts of the trade. Nevertheless, you can't say the Sens 1st was worth more at the time of the trade than SJ's 1st is worth today. If you can play captain hindsight like that, I'm going to start pointing out all the other trades where we drafted a player with a pick we acquired. Like how we totally fleeced Dallas by trading Auld for Stone.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

it was a fine trade. Find a new slant.

If by fine you mean one of the most lopsided trades in NHL history then yes, it was fine.

 

[BigRig4]

Does anyone know of a player that Dorion personally scouted first?

Because I know Karlsson wasn't it. I don't really think Stone was either.

The most input Dorion would have had would be drafting in the first round. And we've been trash in the first round.

Anyway I think what Dorion was good at was being a draft facilitator. His actual scouting ability is average.

Pageau I believe

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Nevertheless, you can't say the Sens 1st was worth more at the time of the trade than SJ's 1st is worth today.

Based on what? Ottawa was looking like a bubble team at best when that trade was made. They had a losing record. San Jose is looking like a powerhouse cup contender. Not really similar.

 

[JungleBeat]

Yes now that same Swede scout is in Buffalo's scouting team

You’re correct. It’s Anders Forsberg who’s responsible for the Karlsson,Silfverberg and Lehrer.

I think his scouting is overrated in my opinion and his comments today made me shake my head.

 

[RyCam]

Holy **** Dorion was behind that account that always praised management wasn't he.....

This whole organization is hilarious. That account hasn't tweeted anything after Yost's article, meaning that it's a pretty good chance that it was Dorion pumping his own tires.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Pageau I believe

Perhaps. Although I distinctly remember Murray going to watch a game with Huberdeau and Murray saying, ”get me both #11s”. The other being pageau of course.

But yea I can buy Pageau as being Dorions regardless. Still not some draft god pick.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I was reading the Dorion interview I believe he gave yesterday and I found this part interesting:

On what he would focus on with the additional time...

“Probably getting my life back. Is that fair? I think it’s been a trying summer. First, I’ll tell you that I’ve worked pretty much every weekend. I did take a few days off. After the season I went to Arizona to play 4-5 days of golf right before the lottery. I’ve worked every day. We’ve never been a big staff in our hockey operations, that’s true. And people will sometimes say, well, we don’t want to spend money. Well, we could if we wanted to. It’s about getting the right people. When you know when this is the number of people you can have making decisions, you know everyone’s got an input and every input’s going to matter. And sometimes, we could be like [the Toronto Maple Leafs] and have 47 people, and sometimes it’s not the best thing because you know your voice is never heard.”

Seems to me like it is our GM more than the owner who is reticent in acquiring a bigger staff.

I get the impression Dorion likes being the only one in charge and the main voice in the room, so he surrounds himself with noobs. He'd rather work 80 hours a week than have a few other experienced hockey men sharing the load and credit. I've met a good number of people like Pierre, and they all overcompensated constantly for their insecurity and it made the job a lot more difficult than it should've been.

 

[swiftwin]

Based on what? Ottawa was looking like a bubble team at best when that trade was made. They had a losing record. San Jose is looking like a powerhouse cup contender. Not really similar.

We were 2nd in the division and 8th in the league at the time of the trade 14 games into the season, even thought we started the season without Karlsson. Plus we went to the ECF the previous season.

San Jose finished 10th last year, and flamed out in the 1st round.

If anything, I'd argue SJ's 1st is worth more today than our 1st was worth on the day of the Duchene trade.

 

[Larionov]

Again, the fact that EK wouldn't sign an extension played a huge role in the return. We get an extra pick if he does sign with the Sharks, so we got some protection built in. Personally, I would have run this right to the deadline, as I think we might have had a better chance to get a blue chipper back, but that comes with risks also - if EK's play slipped, or God forbid he got hurt, our return goes in the dumpster.

Sometimes in sports trading a superstar for a bunch of picks and prospects works out for you. Quebec laid the foundation for the Colorado dynasty by trading Lindros, and the Dallas Cowboys built their dynasty by trading Herschel Walker to Minnesota. Sometimes it doesn't work out - look at the brutal return we got for Spezza. (And that trade was made by Saint Bryan.)

Bottom line is that no one had offered up that blue chip prospect, and the club wasn't willing to risk running it into the season. I don't love the return either - I would have loved to see Glass, Heiskanen or Sergachev here. They weren't offered, though, and never were.

Finally, when they do the summary of EK's career, I am willing to bet that it is similar to Pavel Bure - his Hall of Fame highlight reel will predominantly be things he did with his first team, not his second and third.