The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part III

[branch]

Funny that people are in here defending the org, when the standings from last season are staring everyone in the face.

How can you defend that kind of performance?

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

The Turris deal is one many are pretty good with. We indisputably got the better player, upgraded the 1C position in the process and avoided a contract with Turris that I suspect Poile us worried about and it hasn't even started yet

What? No. That is one of the worst trades a GM has made in the past decade. That is a franchise crippling move that has us in limbo as to where to go as a team. Can't rebuild without the pick and we can't compete because of the sub par roster Dorion has assembled. He gave away arguably our most important asset for one year and change of Duchene, who's a player Dorion probably should have known we weren't going to be able to offer a competitive contract offer to given who our owner is.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Funny that people are in here defending the org, when the standings from last season are staring everyone in the face.

How can you defend that kind of performance?

Its easy when you lie to yourself.

 

[branch]

Its easy when you lie to yourself.

Or if you're getting paid.

 

[topshelf15]

For me it all started with us not trying to get Methot back,We damn well knew we had no f***en hope of replacing him ,but yet we didnt do anything else but sign a broken down Oduya.....Also the same could be said about Macarther,lose a good top 6 forward ,do nothing

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

For me it all started with us not trying to get Methot back,We damn well knew we had no ****en hope of replacing him ,but yet we didnt do anything else but sign a broken down Oduya.....Also the same could be said about Macarther,lose a good top 6 forward ,do nothing

From the bubble team that went to the ECF final, 4/6 of the top 6 and 2/4 of the top 4 are gone in almost less than a year and we have very little to show for their loses. Duchene, Gaborik and Boedker + some futures (and we gave more futures than we got) really and probably only Duchene and Boedker will play for the team this upcoming season.

 

[topshelf15]

From the team that went to the ECF final, 4/6 of the top 6 and 2/4 of the top 4 are gone in almost less than a year and we have very little to show for their loses. Duchene, Gaborik and Boedker really and probably only Duchene and Boedker will play for the team this upcoming season.

Yep ,and it all circles back to one person and one reason...As to why our team is in perpetual reload ....

 

[JD1]

Funny that people are in here defending the org, when the standings from last season are staring everyone in the face.

How can you defend that kind of performance?

you can defend the org but ot the result

by your logic shouldn't most have been singing the praises 2 seasons ago?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

you can defend the org but ot the result

by your logic shouldn't most have been singing the praises 2 seasons ago?

Lol people were.


But it was easy to see that it was Karlsson who carrying the roster.

 

[Ice-Tray]

There's no way to spin the Hoffman trade positively because of the flip to FLA. We know Dorion talked to FLA, he essentially admitted it. So unless he was lying to the fan base, it's not like it's a situation where he traded Hoffman to the West to appease Karlsson rather than in the division where Karlsson would see Hoffman multiple times a year.

If it was just Hoffman to SJS and they kept him, I'd give Dorion a pass.

But look at it this way. If Dorion goes out and trades Hoffman to FLA for the 2019 2nd+4th+5th, does SJS turn down Pittsburgh's 2019 3rd for Boedker? Probably not. It might have even cost less than that. They just gave big money to Evander Kane and were preparing to potentially pay Tavares 12 million, in this scenario when it came to acquiring Boedker, Dorion should have been in a position of strength.

The flip to FLA has zero bearing on the trade at all. PD did not want what FLA was offering, that is known. There is no reason to lie about anything we already know what happened. He wanted a roster player in return and liked what MB may offer, especially with his history with Duchene, over a few picks from FLA. You can disagree based on liking the two picks more than the player, but that's the extent of the displeasure. You also can't really make up a trade for a later pick and assume SJS takes it, for the sake of your argument.

Why in the world would you give PD a pass based on SJS preferring picks over Hoffman? I mean if anything SJS could have really benefitted from having Hoff in their line up. I mean his value was tanked for us because we had to trade him, and fast, but why did SJS have to trade him for bargain bin prices? That team could have heard on to him until a deal closer to his skill level came around, or played him. They didn't get any of the big fish, and ended up top trading a top six scoring winger for scraps for no reason. A laughable move really, I mean in the end FLA got a great deal, we got a solid player out of a really lame situation that we were never going to get value out of, and SJS got scraps instead the top six scorer FLA got.

It has to cross you mind that PD actually wanted MB over the two picks. I say it over and over again but those two picks statistically are unlikely to produce a player that sticks in the NHL, let alone one that is as good as MB. Let that sink in for a minute, PD chose the sure fire NHLer to play on our team next year instead of two draft picks that may turn into players down the road if they beat the odds. Add in chemistry with Duchene and you have a worthwhile gamble. If it pays off we can turn him into picks if we want, or enjoy the success. Someone needed to replace Hoffman in the top six, and it shouldn't have to be a rookie.

I'm not sure people think things through before tripping over themselves to slam every trade. I think we made the best out of a really lame situation, but it might just lead to a good season for the player we got, and it might just be the difference between EK wanting to stay and wanting to leave.

 

[Ice-Tray]

What? No. That is one of the worst trades a GM has made in the past decade. That is a franchise crippling move that has us in limbo as to where to go as a team. Can't rebuild without the pick and we can't compete because of the sub par roster Dorion has assembled. He gave away arguably our most important asset for one year and change of Duchene, who's a player Dorion probably should have known we weren't going to be able to offer a competitive contract offer to given who our owner is.

Just no.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Just no.

Do you not realize that we are most likely going to be one of those worst teams in the league this year without our 1st?

In a draft that has a McDavid level talent and a couple of potential franshise players no less.

 

[Ice-Tray]

From the bubble team that went to the ECF final, 4/6 of the top 6 and 2/4 of the top 4 are gone in almost less than a year and we have very little to show for their loses. Duchene, Gaborik and Boedker + some futures (and we gave more futures than we got) really and probably only Duchene and Boedker will play for the team this upcoming season.

Dude, it's a retool. None of those guys were in the long term plans. There is not a fan out there who wanted to hold on to P9 as one of our core, Methot was picked in an expansion draft, and Turris was about commend a lot more money and term than he was worth. Hoffman's situation leading to MB should not be part of this really, but getting a solid middle six player back over some lame picks is better in my mind.

The truth is that Duchene is so much better than Turris, Gaborik isn't really on the team and has little to do with our future plans, and we have a bunch of young kids looking to crack the roster spots left by the injury prone Method (who most loved) and a slowing P9 (that most wanted dumped at all costs).

As a team looking at the future we are so much better situated than you are prepared to give credit for. Not having a first next year is fine when you consider that we have a real living #1 centre instead. As long as we can sign our big three we have a pretty sweet up and coming line up to join our pretty special top three players.

It's not a rebuild, we're not picking last net year, it's a retool, and we have some awesome young players coming on board.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Do you not realize that we are most likely going to be one of those worst teams in the league this year without our 1st?

In a draft that has a McDavid level talent and a couple of potential franshise players no less.

That only happens if we trade our top three, otherwise we'll be in the middle ten, just as likely pushing for playoffs if our goaltending gets back to normal.

If we do trade our top three, then we'll have at least a couple 1st round picks to make everyone happy.

Win-win

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

The flip to FLA has zero bearing on the trade at all. PD did not want what FLA was offering, that is known. There is no reason to lie about anything we already know what happened. He wanted a roster player in return and liked what MB may offer, especially with his history with Duchene, over a few picks from FLA. You can disagree based on liking the two picks more than the player, but that's the extent of the displeasure. You also can't really make up a trade for a later pick and assume SJS takes it, for the sake of your argument.

Why in the world would you give PD a pass based on SJS preferring picks over Hoffman? I mean if anything SJS could have really benefitted from having Hoff in their line up. I mean his value was tanked for us because we had to trade him, and fast, but why did SJS have to trade him for bargain bin prices? That team could have heard on to him until a deal closer to his skill level came around, or played him. They didn't get any of the big fish, and ended up top trading a top six scoring winger for scraps for no reason. A laughable move really, I mean in the end FLA got a great deal, we got a solid player out of a really lame situation that we were never going to get value out of, and SJS got scraps instead the top six scorer FLA got.

It has to cross you mind that PD actually wanted MB over the two picks. I say it over and over again but those two picks statistically are unlikely to produce a player that sticks in the NHL, let alone one that is as good as MB. Let that sink in for a minute, PD chose the sure fire NHLer to play on our team next year instead of two draft picks that may turn into players down the road if they beat the odds. Add in chemistry with Duchene and you have a worthwhile gamble. If it pays off we can turn him into picks if we want, or enjoy the success. Someone needed to replace Hoffman in the top six, and it shouldn't have to be a rookie.

I'm not sure people think things through before tripping over themselves to slam every trade. I think we made the best out of a really lame situation, but it might just lead to a good season for the player we got, and it might just be the difference between EK wanting to stay and wanting to leave.

You know what an actual smart and competent GM does?

They flip Hoffman for a second and trade a 3rd for Boedker or the literal dozens of other available players his caliber in the league.

I'm pretty sure SJ mainly wanted to move his salary.

 

[Ice-Tray]

You know what an actual smart and competent GM does?

They flip Hoffman for a second and trade a 3rd for Boedker or the literal dozens of other players his caliber in the league.

I'm pretty sure SJ mainly wanted to move his salary.

Uh huh, dude I know. After the fact we can all fabricate dozens of woulda coulda shouldas based on circumstances that we can simply assume exist. It makes for an awesomely useless exercise in my opinion, but whatever.

Look, when folks want to be angry, nothing is going to stop them, this I know.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Uh huh, dude I know. After the fact we can all fabricate dozens of woulda coulda shouldas based on circumstances that we can simply assume exist. It makes for an awesomely useless exercise in my opinion, but whatever.

Look, when folks want to be angry, nothing is going to stop them, this I know.

Man do you have a shrine to Dorion that you pray to?

It's like talking to someone in a cult.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Man do you have a shrine to Dorion that you pray to?

It's like talking to someone in a cult.

This is what I mean, arguing against your hyperbole must mean that I have a shrine/part of a cult. It's a lame way to carry on a discussion, but is par for the course around here. Must be an internet thing, most of you would never behave the way you do in a room full of actual human beings.

I don't see why venting like a spoiled child should carry the day in here.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Just no.

No to what part?

Let's see. Sub par roster? Check. 2nd worst team in hockey. Only got worse on paper. Our biggest addition is a 19 year old who scored 8 goals in college last year.

Gave away our 1st? Check. Gone.

Duchene for a year and change? Where's the contract extension? For any of our players for that matter. Does this look like a team that's about to invest huge money into their roster? Melnyk has already threatened to cut there and we've done nothing but cut there since last offseason. They wouldn't even pay Turris what he was worth. They won't do it with Duchene.

Let's face it, Dorion thought last year's team was going to go all the way. He drank his own koolaid. He couldn't have been more wrong. He did not diagnosis the situation properly and got taken to the cleaners for his reckless gamble. Duchene was always likely to be a 2 year rental. He thought it would be worth it. No need to make more excuses for him and how he's Milburying the franchise.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Dude, it's a retool.

Wouldn't that suggest that we're adding to the roster is some way? You're saying we're bringing in youth to the roster, which is great but that's what we're exclusively doing. Unless Hoffman for Boedker suffices a whole retool. Generally bringing a ton of youth to play on a bottom feeding team after trading away a bunch of vets is called something else.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

This is what I mean, arguing against your hyperbole must mean that I have a shrine/part of a cult. It's a lame way to carry on a discussion, but is par for the course around here. Must be an internet thing, most of you would never behave the way you do in a room full of actual human beings.

I don't see why venting like a spoiled child should carry the day in here.

Just no

 

[Ice-Tray]

Wouldn't that suggest that we're adding to the roster is some way? You're saying we're bringing in youth to the roster, which is great but that's what we're exclusively doing. Unless Hoffman for Boedker suffices a whole retool. Generally bringing a ton of youth to play on a bottom feeding team after trading away a bunch of vets is called something else.

I think signing our stars and brining in some of our young guys that are ready is enough for now. We don't want to commit too many spots to non core guys until we see what we have in Brown, White, BT, Jaros, Wolanin, etc...

EK, Stone and Duchene sticking around is enough to make it a retool rather than a full blown rebuild. We get rid of some over paid vets and make room for some skilled rookies. If the stars go, well theres nothing left but a rebuild. I really hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[BondraTime]

I think signing our stars and brining in some of our young guys that are ready is enough for now. We don't want to commit too many spots to non core guys until we see what we have in Brown, White, BT, Jaros, Wolanin, etc...

EK, Stone and Duchene sticking around is enough to make it a retool rather than a full blown rebuild. We get rid of some over paid vets and make room for some skilled rookies. If the stars go, well theres nothing left but a rebuild. I really hope it doesn't come to that.

That isn't a retool whatsoever, that's signing your own players.....retool entails adding new pieces on the fly to improve your team.

You just described status quo.

Bringing in youth as you described is a rebuild

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I think signing our stars and brining in some of our young guys that are ready is enough for now. We don't want to commit too many spots to non core guys until we see what we have in Brown, White, BT, Jaros, Wolanin, etc...

EK, Stone and Duchene sticking around is enough to make it a retool rather than a full blown rebuild. We get rid of some over paid vets and make room for some skilled rookies. If the stars go, well theres nothing left but a rebuild. I really hope it doesn't come to that.

Well to update on the SIGNING OF THE STARS 2018:

Sens have been trying to negotiate a deal with Karlsson since July. No deal has been made. Super stars like him are getting massive bonus laden deals like Kucherov with over 40M of his 8 year deal paid in bonuses. McDavid gets 86 of his 100 million in bonuses. Melnyk has been quoted as saying that "other teams can out gun us 5 to 1".

Mark Stone signed a one year deal to take him to free agency next year. Opted to not sign long term with Ottawa.

Matt Duchene we've heard nothing on but we know he wants to play for a contender and is tired of being on teams that miss the playoffs.

So yeah. No reason to think any of these guys will be Senators past the 2019 deadline or July 2019 at this point unless there's new ownership.

 

[JD1]

Lol people were.


But it was easy to see that it was Karlsson who carrying the roster.

no people on here were not. the prevailing sentiment here was that our success was a one off one in a million situation..