The NHL asked... should Roman Josi be in the HOF ?

[KevinRedkey]

Idk if he'd make it if he retired today - but he'll play a lot more and add to what is already at least debatably worthy.

He definitely gets in at some point.

 

[x Tame Impala]

His 95 point season was the most points by a defenseman since Leetch 30 years ago. He was very dominant that year, especially in the 2nd half of the season.

Idk man you tell me, assuming you’re a Preds fan. Has Josi really been a better defenseman than Weber? You would know better than me so I’m not going to argue with Preds fans here but from what I’ve seen I think scoring is up and OFD are getting overly rewarded in Norris voting the last 8 or so years.

Weber always seemed like far and away the better defenseman overall. The guy could very easily have 2 Norris trophies to his name and was a prototype defenseman for a decade or so. Josi is a great asset but he’s not quite the same player if you know what I mean. Not just physically, but overall impact and recognition.

 

[Dust]

Nearly at 700 career points, would likely have a realistic shot at 1000 as a D-man is pretty good. To go along with a Norris, 3 AS and top 5 finish in Norris 5 times. I'd say he's pretty close to a lock.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Not a first ballot. If he wins a cup or does a lot more then I say so.

 

[JungleBeat]

Better than Weber ever was

 

[sr edler]

Idk man you tell me, assuming you’re a Preds fan. Has Josi really been a better defenseman than Weber? You would know better than me so I’m not going to argue with Preds fans here but from what I’ve seen I think scoring is up and OFD are getting overly rewarded in Norris voting the last 8 or so years.

Weber always seemed like far and away the better defenseman overall. The guy could very easily have 2 Norris trophies to his name and was a prototype defenseman for a decade or so. Josi is a great asset but he’s not quite the same player if you know what I mean. Not just physically, but overall impact and recognition.

Shea Weber's generally been a bit overrated, doesn't mean he wasn't a top tier-ish type of D in the league for some years, but he wasn't this all-time two-way beast either. Firstly, his defensive game (while solid) got a bit overrated, probably because he was a big physical scary-looking guy with a Paul Mara type of beard. But this is a player that got continually danced by Ryan Kesler in a playoff series, and Kesler while good was never that much of an offensive virtuoso, but with his speed Weber just couldn't keep up.

Secondly, Weber was a subpar puck transporter and playmaker, two fairly critical aspects of a 1D's game. His highest amount of assists in a season was 33. That's very low for a #1 type of D that logs shit ton of TOI year in and year out. Even his former colleague Ryan Suter, who himself was never that much of an all-time playmaking ace, and played on the exact same type of teams as Weber, either tied or eclipsed that assist amount 10 times over his career.

 

[JPT]

He is pretty famous for a hockey player, so yeah why not?

 

[MXD]

Here's a complete list of defensemen who have placed in the top five for the Norris trophy at least five times:

PLAYER	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	TOTAL
Ray Bourque	5​	6​	4​	4​		19​
Nicklas Lidstrom	7​	3​	1​	1​	1​	13​
Bobby Orr	8​		1​			9​
Doug Harvey	7​	1​		1​		9​
Paul Coffey	3​	2​	1​	1​	2​	9​
Pierre Pilote	3​	3​		2​		8​
Zdeno Chara	1​	2​	3​	1​	1​	8​
Tim Horton		2​	2​	3​	1​	8​
Chris Chelios	3​	2​	1​	1​		7​
Denis Potvin	3​	2​	1​	1​		7​
Larry Robinson	2​	1​	3​		1​	7​
Chris Pronger	1​		3​	1​	2​	7​
Brad Park		6​	1​			7​
Bill Gadsby		3​	3​		1​	7​
Al MacInnis	1​	3​	2​			6​
Jacques Laperriere	1​	1​		2​	2​	6​
Victor Hedman	1​		5​			6​
Borje Salming		2​	2​	2​		6​
Scott Stevens		2​	1​	2​	1​	6​
Erik Karlsson	3​	2​				5​
Brian Leetch	2​		1​	1​	1​	5​
Rod Langway	2​		1​		2​	5​
Roman Josi	1​	2​			2​	5​
Rob Blake	1​		2​	1​	1​	5​
Shea Weber		2​	1​	2​		5​
Fern Flaman			3​		2​	5​

Every player on that list is in the Hall of Fame, or is a future lock (ie Hedman, Karlsson). I doubt that Josi breaks the trend.

Yep. Thanks for the list -- I've always been lazy for that. And it comes to what I hinted at : even if Josi would be the worst in that group, he's still comfortably above the HHOF line.

Though I was sure Tremblay also did.

 

[JPT]

Idk man you tell me, assuming you’re a Preds fan. Has Josi really been a better defenseman than Weber? You would know better than me so I’m not going to argue with Preds fans here but from what I’ve seen I think scoring is up and OFD are getting overly rewarded in Norris voting the last 8 or so years.

Weber always seemed like far and away the better defenseman overall. The guy could very easily have 2 Norris trophies to his name and was a prototype defenseman for a decade or so. Josi is a great asset but he’s not quite the same player if you know what I mean. Not just physically, but overall impact and recognition.

Weber was the ideal kind of defenseman in the 2000s and into the early 2010s. Josi has been the ideal kind of defenseman for the late 2010s and the 2020s so far.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Shea Weber's generally been a bit overrated, doesn't mean he wasn't a top tier-ish type of D in the league for some years, but he wasn't this all-time two-way beast either. Firstly, his defensive game (while solid) got a bit overrated, probably because he was a big physical scary-looking guy with a Paul Mara type of beard. But this is a player that got continually danced by Ryan Kesler in a playoff series, and Kesler while good was never that much of an offensive virtuoso, but with his speed Weber just couldn't keep up.

Secondly, Weber was a subpar puck transporter and playmaker, two fairly critical aspects of a 1D's game. His highest amount of assists in a season was 33. That's very low for a #1 type of D that logs shit ton of TOI year in and year out. Even his former colleague Ryan Suter, who himself was never that much of an all-time playmaking ace, and played on the exact same type of teams as Weber, either tied or eclipsed that assist amount 10 times over his career.

Lesser playmaker sure but from 2006-2020 he’s got the most goals scored of all defenseman. The guy was consistently a 15+ goal scorer in the low scoring 2010’s era

Weber was the ideal kind of defenseman in the 2000s and into the early 2010s. Josi has been the ideal kind of defenseman for the late 2010s and the 2020s so far.

That’s a fair point as well. I’m waiting on Preds fans here either way. If they’re going to say they think Josi is better than Weber then I’ll defer to them.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Probably not but maybe as a builder for his country? He’s Swiss right? Is he not the first Swiss everything really?

Mark Streit says hi.

 

[Voight]

Of course there's the caveat that pretty much every Norris winner has been inducted, aside from that hes consistently been one of the best defensemen in the league and was the #1 defensemen on a SCF team.

 

[BruinLVGA]

I don’t see it personally and have watched a lot of his career. Very good player but a Norris and a couple high scoring seasons doesn’t scream all time great to me.

IMHO I don’t think he’s a dominant player which is what someone should be to be in the HoF. It won’t bother me either way and he’s been great for Nashville, but my vote is no.

„Couple high scoring seasons“. He has 338 points in 346 games = the last FIVE SEASONS. And he actually led his ENTIRE team in scoring in 4 out of those 5 seasons (in the season he didn‘t, he was 2nd overall). Please.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Based on the credentials they cold come up with for the post you'd hope not.

Yah. Based on that any player who won an award is qualified for the HOF.

 

[Moose Head]

His resume is probably already a tad better than Doug Wilson’s, and Josi still has a lot of years to build upon it. Yeah, I’d be surprised if he doesn’t end up as a HOFer.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Josi should be in the HHOF just from his good looks alone.

 

[featherhawk]

he will be when he retires, he has been dominant.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Holy moly, look at the Ray Bourque line. Nineteen years a top4 finalist. Nineteen! Go back to the lockout. From the lockout to now is nineteen years. Geez louise. Mind blown.

Bourque's year to year consistency as a Norris calibre player is unprecedented. His Norris trophy results are basically equal to Chris Chelios, plus Al MacInnis, plus Scott Stevens.

Compare this:

PLAYER	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	TOTAL
Ray Bourque	5	6	4	4		19

To this:

PLAYER	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	TOTAL
Chris Chelios	3	2	1	1		7
Al MacInnis	1	3	2			6
Scott Stevens		2	1	2	1	6
TOTAL	4	7	4	3	1	19

Those are the full career results of three first-ballot Hall of Fame defensemen (all of whom were his peers). Chelios is a top ten defenseman all-time, and MacInnis and Stevens are in the top twenty. As great as Bourque was, he's still underrated by many.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Yes Josi will get in.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Yep. Thanks for the list -- I've always been lazy for that. And it comes to what I hinted at : even if Josi would be the worst in that group, he's still comfortably above the HHOF line.

Though I was sure Tremblay also did.

Good catch - you're right. JC Trembley also had five years in the top five (2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 5th). Plus he was a major contributor to five Stanley Cup winning teams. Most people think he was excluded from the Hall because he offended "the hockey establishment" by leaving for the WHA (where he won their equivalent of the Norris trophy twice).

 

[darth5]

As someone who has watched both pretty closely, for today's game Josi is far superior to Weber (while not perfect). Weber was a punishing defenseman in his heyday with a powerful point shot. Josi is more cerebral and better offensively. Hopefully Josi has a few more years to earn more points and awards.

 

[CanadienShark]

No, definitely not. Another Norris would help his case, but I don't see it. Then again, with all the others who've got in recently like Roenick, then sure, why not.

 

[MXD]

No, definitely not. Another Norris would help his case, but I don't see it. Then again, with all the others who've got in recently like Roenick, then sure, why not.

The problem with this take is that you're making the HHOF something that it never was. Or you didn't quite realize how good Josi has been (and for how long). If Josi is "definitely not" good enough -- meaning a decent separation from the line -- that would involve someone like Brian Leetch being just barely good enough, and a borderline candidate. Which of course he wasn't.

 

[CanadienShark]

The problem with this take is that you're making the HHOF something that it never was. Or you didn't quite realize how good Josi has been (and for how long). If Josi is "definitely not" good enough -- meaning a decent separation from the line -- that would involve someone like Brian Leetch being just barely good enough, and a borderline candidate. Which of course he wasn't.

I mean I don't think he fits what I think the HHOF *should* be. The "I don't see it" refers to winning another Norris. I do think he's better than some guys already in though.

 

[MXD]

I mean I don't think he fits what I think the HHOF *should* be. The "I don't see it" refers to winning another Norris. I do think he's better than some guys already in though.

On top of my head, should he miss, and should the other obvious active candidates likes Doughty, Karlsson, Hedman are getting in, he'd be the best D-Men not in the Hall.