Confirmed with Link: The new coach of the Philadelphia Flyers is John Tortorella

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Boxscore

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I think Tortorella will be a nice fit in Philly as a coach. The real problem is going to be Fletcher making absurd trades in an attempt to "quick fix" a team loaded with holes. Torts will make the Flyers fiery and competitive -- and depending on the "win now" players brought in -- they may even sneak into the playoffs. But by the time they fire Tortorella in 3 years, they'll still have nothing to show for it and a non-existent, young nucleus to rebuild around... the team will be in complete shambles.

The Flyers STILL haven't realized the most efficient way to win a Cup -- and contend for a dozen years -- is to absolutely stink so you can rebuild with elite, young superstars through the draft. It's not like the playbook hasn't been written over and over.

All homegrown, drafted talent:

Pens
- Sid
- Malkin
- Letang
- Fleury
- Staal

Hawks
- Kane
- Toews
- Keith
- Seabrook
- Byfuglien

Caps
- Ovechkin
- Backstrom
- Kuznetsov
- Green
- Carlson

Bolts
- Stamkos
- Hedman
- Kucherov
- Vasilevskiy
- Point

Avs
- MacKinnon
- Landeskog
- Rantanen
- Makar
- Byram

Those are the heavy winners / contenders. Then you have the young, exciting, "worth the price of admission" clubs...

Leafs
- Matthews
- Marner
- Nylander
- Rielly

Oilers
- McDavid
- Draisaitl
- Nurse

Panthers
- Huberdeau
- Barkov
- Ekblad
- Knight

Teams like the Wild, Sabres and Sens will also be a treat to watch as they improve with all their young talent. The only high-end team that truly have taken the Flyers "patch it together quick" approach and appears to be on their way to great things is the Rangers. But consider...

They signed Panarin and absolutely stole Zibanejad and Fox. They also were gifted a lottery pick, although Lafreniere is not a key contributor currently. But those moves took brilliant (and lucky) GMing, which we all know the Flyers don't have in Fletcher.

A couple other teams go on random "miracle runs" like the Blues, Canadiens, Stars, Flames, but those results aren't consistent or sustainable based on the way their teams are built.

Tortorella will make the Flyers at least worth watching in the short-term (if for nothing else but the entertaining blow-up moments and drama) but they will end up being mediocre-to-good for another 10 years. They will also likely ship out more youth and picks for vets past their prime with high cap hits.
 

Deadpool8812

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Feb 10, 2018
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You think the Flyers will have the smarts to try and bring Benoit Groulx in as an assistant? He's long overdue for an NHL coaching spot and I don't know if he'll get that in TB any time soon

At least it will mean they already have an in house replacement for when Tortorella is fired in 2-3 seasons and Briere takes over as GM
 

Shrike

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Dec 5, 2019
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Hi All, hope you're all having great summers and are doing well.

Wanted to wait until the word was official, but from what I have gathered on here is you guys were distraught over this hire. How you think Torts will make your top young players run out of town and your most respected veterans request to be traded. How he will be a mess and unprofessional. How he could be a massive disaster like he was in Vancouver.

I just wanted to tell you guys that us CBJ fans thought the same thing when he was hired. Literally, saying the exact same things. Especially from me, I hated the hire and wanted nothing to do with it.

However, Torts is a changed man and changed coach since his NYR and Vancouver days. I'm not going to sit here and say he's always professional and won't rub people the wrong way. Because he won't, sometimes he does it on purpose to challenge people. That doesn't always work for players. However, he almost always does that stuff AFTER talking with the players about it for a long time. You'll hear of a "bunker mentality" and he will almost always keep things in house if possible, and if its out of house, its him doing it on purpose. It's something he does to light fires under guys asses. He's not always this mean bear who picks on people, he coddles a lot too. Alex Wennberg, who almost never would shoot or score here, was coddled throughout his entire tenure here by Torts. As was William Karlsson, and now both are among the better two way centers in the NHL. When players get publicly bashed with how they're playing, he will almost always run to their defense and take the blame for them. He sticks up for his players.

He's a great coach. I am not going to pretend to know anything detailed about your team, players, or locker room (aside from Cam Atkinson, who I am quite familiar with ;)) but if your roster needs a shake up, an attitude adjustment, and a new winning culture. Torts is literally the best man on the job for this. He will create bonds within your locker room. He will make the players be ready to play and in shape (You'll hear all about his rigorous training camp drills. Don't expect to look good at all in the preseason).

Has his style adapted from his defense first mentality? Yeah, somewhat. He really wnats the Dmen to be active offensively,and he really wants the centers to shoulder a lot of responsibility not only on breakouts but in defensive zone coverages. He will stress blocking shots (which isn't a surprise to anyone) especially as defensemen.

Torts' actions and coaching doesn't always sit well with people. He ran Ryan Johansen out of town almost instantly, and also pushed away respected vets like Matt Calvert through stupid public comments. However, almost all the times a player "ran away" from Torts, it made the CBJ better in the long run.

I wish you guys/gals luck and an open mind to Torts. I promise he's not as bad as everyone seems to think he is. Not even close.
Didn’t you guys only win one playoff series during his tenure? I don’t mind the jackets, but the Flyers are in a different tier of expectations among NHL franchises. One playoff series win every 3 or 4 years isn’t enough. Conference finals twice a decade at least for the Flyers is a must. We have all the resources to pay for the people who can make it happen, they are just currently too stupid to find them.
 

renberg

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Hayes is lazy as f***.
IDK if he's lazy or if the problem is between his ears. Too many times he doesn't seem to see the opportunities or problems that are facing him on the ice. Physically, he has the tools to be a very good player. Unfortunately he doesn't connect the dots enough with his play. I really don't see how a lack of instinctive understanding of the moments in the game be "coached up."
 
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usahockey22flyers

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Nov 9, 2009
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Really torn on this hire.

When I first saw Torts was being rumored, my immediate reaction was just to be so pissed off. I never liked how his teams played, especially with the Rangers - chip and chase x121241 was boring to watch, and it also didn't help that the Rangers owned the Flyers in 2012 I think, I don't think we beat them in the regular season...

I didn't really watch much of the Torts CBJ days as I was in Italy for I think majority of it. After speaking with some Blue Jackets fans, it does seem like his system was slightly altered, and CBJ took more of an analytical approach...and they actually speak pretty highly of him, which was surprising.

After hearing him speak, I did feel a bit better - the dude is passionate, and after watching so many AV or Yeo pressers, that was a pleasant change. Most of the things he said he wanted to fix/tweak, were clear weaknesses on this team, especially especially play without the puck. If he get more structure in the NZ and the dzone, that will be incredibly welcomed.

What it comes down to for me and I think a lot of skeptical fans - I have no faith in Chuck Fletcher I just think this roster sucks and guys like Provy, TK, Frost - will just never be who we thought they were going to be (#1 D, 35G scorer, and PPG forward)....crappy roster aside, please note that deep down I know that Torts is a good coach. Not taking anything away from him.

I'm still a little lukewarm on the whole thing but wanting someone who might actually bring accountability, discipline, and team oriented hockey, while giving Hart a real chance to succeed and take that next step - in itself is NOT a bad thing. I just wish Dave Scott and Chuck Fletcher weren't overseeing the whole thing.

I'm not more inclined or less inclined to go to a game, but I will be watching trade rumors a little more closely, and this team will be "scheduled TV" as it always is for now.

I think I'm forcing myself to be somewhat optimistic because after COVID, the Sixers being a joke, and so much other crap going on in the world, I literally have to hope for the best.
 
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blackjackmulligan

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Jun 17, 2022
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No coach is going to be able to turn this roster around. It is flawed and just not that good. There are good individual players who have value. There are hockey trades to be made. The problem is the GM is not good at his job.

All the players from the prior regime with the possible exception of Hart I look to move. To many of these players are defeated and seem to have accepted losing to a degree. The good news is Sean Couterier is starting his shiny new 8 year deal!!!
 

flyersnorth

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Oct 7, 2019
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I think Tortorella will be a nice fit in Philly as a coach. The real problem is going to be Fletcher making absurd trades in an attempt to "quick fix" a team loaded with holes. Torts will make the Flyers fiery and competitive -- and depending on the "win now" players brought in -- they may even sneak into the playoffs. But by the time they fire Tortorella in 3 years, they'll still have nothing to show for it and a non-existent, young nucleus to rebuild around... the team will be in complete shambles.

The Flyers STILL haven't realized the most efficient way to win a Cup -- and contend for a dozen years -- is to absolutely stink so you can rebuild with elite, young superstars through the draft. It's not like the playbook hasn't been written over and over.

All homegrown, drafted talent:

Pens
- Sid
- Malkin
- Letang
- Fleury
- Staal

Hawks
- Kane
- Toews
- Keith
- Seabrook
- Byfuglien

Caps
- Ovechkin
- Backstrom
- Kuznetsov
- Green
- Carlson

Bolts
- Stamkos
- Hedman
- Kucherov
- Vasilevskiy
- Point

Avs
- MacKinnon
- Landeskog
- Rantanen
- Makar
- Byram

Those are the heavy winners / contenders. Then you have the young, exciting, "worth the price of admission" clubs...

Leafs
- Matthews
- Marner
- Nylander
- Rielly

Oilers
- McDavid
- Draisaitl
- Nurse

Panthers
- Huberdeau
- Barkov
- Ekblad
- Knight

Teams like the Wild, Sabres and Sens will also be a treat to watch as they improve with all their young talent. The only high-end team that truly have taken the Flyers "patch it together quick" approach and appears to be on their way to great things is the Rangers. But consider...

They signed Panarin and absolutely stole Zibanejad and Fox. They also were gifted a lottery pick, although Lafreniere is not a key contributor currently. But those moves took brilliant (and lucky) GMing, which we all know the Flyers don't have in Fletcher.

A couple other teams go on random "miracle runs" like the Blues, Canadiens, Stars, Flames, but those results aren't consistent or sustainable based on the way their teams are built.

Tortorella will make the Flyers at least worth watching in the short-term (if for nothing else but the entertaining blow-up moments and drama) but they will end up being mediocre-to-good for another 10 years. They will also likely ship out more youth and picks for vets past their prime with high cap hits.

I mean, the only team that legitimately tanked in your list is the Leafs. And they still haven't won a single playoff round since 2004.

I don't think any other team deliberately laid out a 10-year suckage plan. They just sucked and got incrementally better all while acquiring high talent players.

The Avs, for example, had 3 top 10 picks.

MacKinnon
Landeskog
Makar

Let's compare that to the Flyers 3 top 10 picks.

Couturier
Patrick
Provorov

The only close comparable is Couturier to Landeskog.

The Flyers could suck again for the next decade, and there's still no guarantee of them landing a franchise player.
 

TheKingPin

Registered User
Nov 16, 2005
20,935
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Philadelphia, PA
I mean, the only team that legitimately tanked in your list is the Leafs. And they still haven't won a single playoff round since 2004.

I don't think any other team deliberately laid out a 10-year suckage plan. They just sucked and got incrementally better all while acquiring high talent players.

The Avs, for example, had 3 top 10 picks.

MacKinnon
Landeskog
Makar

Let's compare that to the Flyers 3 top 10 picks.

Couturier
Patrick
Provorov

The only close comparable is Couturier to Landeskog.

The Flyers could suck again for the next decade, and there's still no guarantee of them landing a franchise player.
All of those teams tanked though. The pens were so terrible and very purposeful about it. They got all the old time flyers to make a roster and it was bad. They and everyone knew Crosby was coming. The draft rules were different then vs now but still the same properties apply. I don’t think a team has won a cup with a player making over 10 mill.

The leafs have 3 I believe. They signed one. The oilers have 2. I can give them a little leeway since no one expected the cap to stay stagnate like this. But if anything the lesson is to not hamstring your team with bad deals. Get good deals like Mackinnon or Point. Don’t overpay. Redistribute assets into other points of weakness or just put them back into the team in the form of picks like a company reinvests it’s gains.

It’s far from assured, but it sounds like if you landed either top 2 pick this draft you are in great shape. You just have to time things well. We got lucky to get Patrick, we should have had Kane over JVR. But that doesn’t mean top picks are worthless.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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I mean, the only team that legitimately tanked in your list is the Leafs. And they still haven't won a single playoff round since 2004.

I don't think any other team deliberately laid out a 10-year suckage plan. They just sucked and got incrementally better all while acquiring high talent players.

The Avs, for example, had 3 top 10 picks.

MacKinnon
Landeskog
Makar

Let's compare that to the Flyers 3 top 10 picks.

Couturier
Patrick
Provorov

The only close comparable is Couturier to Landeskog.

The Flyers could suck again for the next decade, and there's still no guarantee of them landing a franchise player.
This.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Sucking for picks is fine if you're willing to suck for close to a decade.
The Pens got lucky (and no lottery), but the Avs took forever, NJ still hasn't made the playoffs, Buffalo is in their 3rd (4th?) rebuild and so on.

A better approach is to just build assets, through trades, smart drafting and player development.
If this means sucking in the short-run and getting a high pick or two fine, but focus on assets, not draft position.
 

GKJ

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Feb 27, 2002
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I love the way that the ‘tanking doesn’t work’ argument works.

Yes, if you’re organization are run by feckless morons, you’re not going to win. Doesn’t matter what your strategy is.

And if your organization is run by smart people, you can rank because if you’re smart, you’re finding other good players.

By the way, Flyers Super Premier Advisor Dean Lombardi is on record as tanking for Drew Doughty.
 

flyersnorth

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Oct 7, 2019
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All of those teams tanked though. The pens were so terrible and very purposeful about it. They got all the old time flyers to make a roster and it was bad. They and everyone knew Crosby was coming. The draft rules were different then vs now but still the same properties apply. I don’t think a team has won a cup with a player making over 10 mill.

The leafs have 3 I believe. They signed one. The oilers have 2. I can give them a little leeway since no one expected the cap to stay stagnate like this. But if anything the lesson is to not hamstring your team with bad deals. Get good deals like Mackinnon or Point. Don’t overpay. Redistribute assets into other points of weakness or just put them back into the team in the form of picks like a company reinvests it’s gains.

It’s far from assured, but it sounds like if you landed either top 2 pick this draft you are in great shape. You just have to time things well. We got lucky to get Patrick, we should have had Kane over JVR. But that doesn’t mean top picks are worthless.

Absolutely - top picks that play like top picks are almost a prerequisite.

Yeah, the Pens tanked too, which is not surprising for an organization that did it before to land Mario.

But the others didn't - Avs, Caps, Oilers, Panthers, Bolts, Hawks. I don't think any of those deliberately tanked.

The Hawks appear to be deliberately "rebuilding" now, which is the modern word for tanking.

The Flyers could go the same route, but they are dead set against it.

So... what to do?

There's no shortage of available talent - Gaudreau, Pastrnak, DeBrincat, Forsberg, Chychrun.

Personally, I don't think Fletcher is able to get out of his own way and make smart NHL moves in the aggregate... but I sincerely hope it works out.
 

Larry44

#FlyersPerpetualMediocrity
Mar 1, 2002
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IDK if he's lazy or if the problem is between his ears. Too many times he doesn't seem to see the opportunities or problems that are facing him on the ice. Physically, he has the tools to be a very good player. Unfortunately he doesn't connect the dots enough with his play. I really don't see how a lack of instinctive understanding of the moments in the game be "coached up."
Lazy, slow AF and fratboy dumb is not the profile of someone you’re banking on to save your job. On top of that, Hayes had multiple surgeries and his groins/abs are shredded and scarred.

I predict Torturella grinds him in TC and he’s out with a recurrence before the opener. Effing hate that piece of crap and the drooling moron who signed him. Someday I’ll be more frank with my feelings.
 

Rebels57

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I love the way that the ‘tanking doesn’t work’ argument works.

Yes, if you’re organization are run by feckless morons, you’re not going to win. Doesn’t matter what your strategy is.

And if your organization is run by smart people, you can rank because if you’re smart, you’re finding other good players.

By the way, Flyers Super Premier Advisor Dean Lombardi is on record as tanking for Drew Doughty.

Yep. Since 2010, the only teams that didnt full on tank at some point that won the Cup were the 2011 Bruins and 2019 Blues. The two teams playing for the Cup right now also full on tanked.

Competent management + tanking for elite talent = Success
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Yep. Since 2010, the only teams that didnt full on tank at some point that won the Cup were the 2011 Bruins and 2019 Blues. The two teams playing for the Cup right now also full on tanked.

Competent management + tanking for elite talent = Success
And a lot of luck. What if we take Makar and Colorado ends up with Patrick?
 
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Hollywood Cannon

I'm Away From My Desk
Jul 17, 2007
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There’s just a total intentional misrepresention of what people are advocating when it comes to tanking.

No one is asking for the team to just sit around and do nothing but strip away everything from the team but that is what is being presented as.

What the vast majority of people are asking for is for the team to not do anything stupid that will prohibit them from doing things in the future which they already have done with Risto and will likely do more in short order.

This is, of course, known by all parties involved in the argument though.
 

Rebels57

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There’s just a total intentional misrepresention of what people are advocating when it comes to tanking.

No one is asking for the team to just sit around and do nothing but strip away everything from the team but that is what is being presented as.

What the vast majority of people are asking for is for the team to not do anything stupid that will prohibit them from doing things in the future which they already have done with Risto and will likely do more in short order.

This is, of course, known by all parties involved in the argument though.

Right, you dont trade away every valuable asset. You trade the valuable assets that are too old to fit in your contention window before their value drops (Coots for example unfortunately) and you dont waste money on players that wont help you achieve your ultimate goal of winning a Cup (Hayes, Risto). You keep guys like Hart, Farabee, Sanheim ,Konecny, etc because they can fit in your contention window and continually add young talent to them. You also need great scouts or this probably wont work.
 
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Diaper Mask Bandits

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Jan 15, 2022
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Sucking for picks is fine if you're willing to suck for close to a decade.
The Pens got lucky (and no lottery), but the Avs took forever, NJ still hasn't made the playoffs, Buffalo is in their 3rd (4th?) rebuild and so on.

A better approach is to just build assets, through trades, smart drafting and player development.
If this means sucking in the short-run and getting a high pick or two fine, but focus on assets, not draft position.

yes, I could agree with this but the Flyer organization refuses to do this.

They do the opposite. Their philosophy is to give away picks (didn't Clarke say something along the lines that he hated 2nd round picks because they want to be paid like firsts. His proteges Homer and Fletcher do not value picks.)
They have little interest in player development. With their Comcast resources, the first thing they should have done was build an elite scouting and player development program. They refuse to do that. Instead, they hire a retread coach every 3 years to big a contract as a means of "proving" their resources are unlimited in terms of building a contender.

in other words, nobody associated with the organization has a clue how to draft, build assets, or develop players.... and they don't care either.

I think they need more than Clarke and Holmgren dying off. Comast has to sell the team
 
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