eco's bones
Registered User
I agree. Not in a hurry to move Staal. Before he got hurt he was playing the best two way hockey of his career.
The Michael Del Zotto is a delsaster.
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I agree. Not in a hurry to move Staal. Before he got hurt he was playing the best two way hockey of his career.
i have been supporting DZ and will continue to do so because he is young and is playing more physical. But something has to give.
When deciding on a D pair, they have to complement each other well.
McD - Girardi complement each other well. For those calling for Girardi to be traded, I don't think they fully appreciate what he brings. He plays a premium position that is tough to find, a top pairing, minute eating, shotblocking, stay at home RHD. And he plays well with either Staal or McD.
As to the second pair, you have to first decide who your RHD is, if it's Stralman, then Staal stays and DZ is expandable. My thought process here is Staal can help cover some of Stralman's miscues; he has no clue how to defend a 2 on 1, likes to venture up ice and with Staal, it'd give the freedom to use his skating and puck handling to support the offense.
DZ/Moore - Stralman is a disaster waiting to happen. They are all offensive Dmen who sometimes play out of position.
DZ/Moore - McIlrath will be a good pair because their style complements each other well. McIlrath is the stay at home Dman to the offensive Dmen the other 2 are.
Between Moore and DZ, I'd keep Moore because of the size, the more accurate shot and the caphit. With one condition, Moore needs to gain some muscle, I have seen him outmuscled too many times along the wall or infront of the net.
DZ should get a good return.
Therefore my D line up next season
McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
Moore - McIlrath
Eminger/X.
With DZ as the asset to trade.
I'd still trade for a young RHD with a good shot from the right side. There are 2 tiers here
Tier 1: Players without exemptions
McBain, Postma.
I'd trade for one of these and play them as the 7th D man/ PP specialist.
Tier 2: Players with exemptions
Savard, Goncharov.
i'd trade for one of these to put in the AHL and groom for the future. Hartford needs young Dmen and these guys have cannons from the point and play a physical kind of hockey.
RHD with a good shot are rare to find and i'd stock as many as i could.
This also gives the team more leverage when discussing Girardi's extension.
When deciding on a D pair, they have to complement each other well.
McD - Girardi complement each other well. For those calling for Girardi to be traded, I don't think they fully appreciate what he brings. He plays a premium position that is tough to find, a top pairing, minute eating, shotblocking, stay at home RHD. And he plays well with either Staal or McD.
As to the second pair, you have to first decide who your RHD is, if it's Stralman, then Staal stays and DZ is expandable. My thought process here is Staal can help cover some of Stralman's miscues; he has no clue how to defend a 2 on 1, likes to venture up ice and with Staal, it'd give the freedom to use his skating and puck handling to support the offense.
DZ/Moore - Stralman is a disaster waiting to happen. They are all offensive Dmen who sometimes play out of position.
DZ/Moore - McIlrath will be a good pair because their style complements each other well. McIlrath is the stay at home Dman to the offensive Dmen the other 2 are.
Between Moore and DZ, I'd keep Moore because of the size, the more accurate shot and the caphit. With one condition, Moore needs to gain some muscle, I have seen him outmuscled too many times along the wall or infront of the net.
DZ should get a good return.
Therefore my D line up next season
McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
Moore - McIlrath
Eminger/X.
With DZ as the asset to trade.
I'd still trade for a young RHD with a good shot from the right side. There are 2 tiers here
Tier 1: Players without exemptions
McBain, Postma.
I'd trade for one of these and play them as the 7th D man/ PP specialist.
Tier 2: Players with exemptions
Savard, Goncharov.
i'd trade for one of these to put in the AHL and groom for the future. Hartford needs young Dmen and these guys have cannons from the point and play a physical kind of hockey.
RHD with a good shot are rare to find and i'd stock as many as i could.
This also gives the team more leverage when discussing Girardi's extension.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,056
- 17,675
Personally, I don't consider Stralman an "offensive defenseman". If anything, I think his specialty is defensive play. He reminds me of Toni Lydman.
Very steady in his own end, rarely make mistakes, good breakout pass.
Very steady in his own end, rarely make mistakes, good breakout pass.
IBleedNYRBlue
Registered User
He has improved enough IMO to move from a bottom pairing Dman who can play on the top 4 in a pinch, to a top 4 Dman who needs a little help. And what convinced me is his ability to play the body and take a hit to make a play. He had a lot of courage to try to make that play against Lucic knowing he would get plastered.
Having Staal as his partner would help alleviate my concerns about his positional awareness.
Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
This.
Has nothing to do with his skill set. I can't even count how many times this season, let alone the post season, that Del Zotto just has a brain fart. He watches the puck come to him while a forward takes it. He gets the puck along the boards behind our own net and pins himself against the boards with it instead of advancing it up the boards. He's a bottom pairing d-man at best.
The kid is just stupid. Besides the fact that he can't hit the ****ing net, the kid is stupid. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. I can't watch him make blunders any longer.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
cd211
Registered User
no way i trade him yet... i keep our core of d...i actually think it helps us when they struggle bc there next deals will be easy to afford... and keep the core together as long as possible..
i think if staal was in the lineup he wouldv'e been dz's rock and actually the d wouldv'e played so mcuh better with staal in the lineup.. torts/sully ride g and mcd way to much.. night in and night out you can't play 30min a game... should be around 25ish and spread the wealth.. DZ this off season should continue building up strength and shooting accuracy.. he is 22.. dont give me that hes vet and should know how to play.. theres a ton of d that came onto the scene late in their careers or late 20s.. jaybo/keith (26ish) etc.. could go on and on..
Mcd-Girardi
Staal-DZ
Moore-Stralman/ McIrath (I want the rook)
we need physical presence from McIrath and I pray sauer comes back next year..
i think if staal was in the lineup he wouldv'e been dz's rock and actually the d wouldv'e played so mcuh better with staal in the lineup.. torts/sully ride g and mcd way to much.. night in and night out you can't play 30min a game... should be around 25ish and spread the wealth.. DZ this off season should continue building up strength and shooting accuracy.. he is 22.. dont give me that hes vet and should know how to play.. theres a ton of d that came onto the scene late in their careers or late 20s.. jaybo/keith (26ish) etc.. could go on and on..
Mcd-Girardi
Staal-DZ
Moore-Stralman/ McIrath (I want the rook)
we need physical presence from McIrath and I pray sauer comes back next year..
Whoot Whoot
Biased Rangers Fan
Three things I dont understand:
1) Any comparisons at all to Brian Leetch with anyone on this current team. (are you over 20?) The man dominated the ice and was one of the most elegant breakout skaters of all time. We have nothing at all remotely like him.
2) Dan Girardi gets no credit. He is the best shot blocker D man in the Eastern Conference and a bulwark on defense. He has a rocket from the point which he has been coached to never use. He is consistently on against the teams best lines.
3) the kind of mistakes Del Zotto makes have nothing to do with a coach. He doesn't understand risk prevention and just seems like a hyped up young jock out there with no understand of the game. Its been a few seasons of this. His tenure of age defense is over. The kid is just not a good dman.
1) Any comparisons at all to Brian Leetch with anyone on this current team. (are you over 20?) The man dominated the ice and was one of the most elegant breakout skaters of all time. We have nothing at all remotely like him.
2) Dan Girardi gets no credit. He is the best shot blocker D man in the Eastern Conference and a bulwark on defense. He has a rocket from the point which he has been coached to never use. He is consistently on against the teams best lines.
3) the kind of mistakes Del Zotto makes have nothing to do with a coach. He doesn't understand risk prevention and just seems like a hyped up young jock out there with no understand of the game. Its been a few seasons of this. His tenure of age defense is over. The kid is just not a good dman.
Actually I think a significant part of the problem is our blueline is pathetically incapable of chipping in offensively. There has to be SOMETHING of offensive value sitting at the blueline.
eco's bones
Registered User
Chipping in doesn't alway mean point production. McDonagh was the guy that was really moving the puck up the ice and keeping the play alive in the Boston end--way more than any other of our defenders. Stralman came next and then Girardi and Moore. Stralman getting hurt was a real blow.
Good right side defenseman are hard to find--real hard. No way would I even think about moving either Girardi or Stralman without a large overpayment. They'd be really tough to replace.
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
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RangerFan10
Registered User
I think if they can get McDonagh locked up long term it's foolish to not try to move Del Zotto. I realize he may be the most offensively gifted D-man of the bunch, but of the five left-handed defenseman we've got in McDonagh, Staal, Stralman, Moore and MDZ, he's become my least favorite. He's sloppy, he's sporadic. While he has the offensive talent and can make great outlet passes, his decision making holds him back. To me he doesn't look like a guy that can run a powerplay. It's never about his ethic, which makes him hard to dislike, but his offensive upside should equal good value, and the depth at LD makes him expendable, and has for awhile. If the hope is McIlrath is ready the year after next, I don't know how you don't hope to have a healthy defense that looks like this:
McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Moore-McIlrath
McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Moore-McIlrath
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,056
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It's up and down with a lot of young players....especially PMD. For all the problems this is a kid with tremendous potential. Think about where Moore was before he came here. DZ is what, 23 in a few weeks? Relax people.
stan the caddy
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2011
- 2,360
- 281
He's improved a lot defensively since his rookie season but the Rangers expected offense from him. They can get a decent return for him - do it.
eco's bones
Registered User
My idea of a description of what a legit No. 1 1st pairing d-man is a guy who can create offense to the tune of about 50-60 points on average per year and play reasonably good in his own end. Like Montreal has two guys like that Markov and Subban--(though one of them is always getting injured). Other examples--Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Chara, Streit, Letang, Green, Boyle. I'm forgetting a few. Some of these guys are older for sure but I don't see Del Zotto becoming on par with any of the above named. He's not even close to being the Rangers best defenseman right now (I'd easily take all of Staal, McDonagh, Girardi and Stralman over him) so comparisons to Leetch--a Calder trophy winner, a Conn Smythe winner, a Hall of Famer, a guy who almost always produced in the post season and for almost his entire career was the Rangers best d-man are really nonsensical.
The chances of Michael's ever becoming a legitimate No. 1 defenseman are pretty close to 0. Reality is Del Zotto is probably going to get better than he is now. How much more remains to be seen but I don't see him becoming a huge offensive producer--50 point range would be about my best estimate as far as he'll ever reach and that may just be in part due somewhat to the nature of defense first post Jagr Rangers teams. The thing is I don't see this guy ever becoming the face of the Rangers defense anyhow--even if our offense one day goes more high octane. He just doesn't have it to be a No. 1 d-man. He's tradable 'if' the right deal comes along.
The chances of Michael's ever becoming a legitimate No. 1 defenseman are pretty close to 0. Reality is Del Zotto is probably going to get better than he is now. How much more remains to be seen but I don't see him becoming a huge offensive producer--50 point range would be about my best estimate as far as he'll ever reach and that may just be in part due somewhat to the nature of defense first post Jagr Rangers teams. The thing is I don't see this guy ever becoming the face of the Rangers defense anyhow--even if our offense one day goes more high octane. He just doesn't have it to be a No. 1 d-man. He's tradable 'if' the right deal comes along.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I agree with this, verbatim. Throw a young, Righty, offensive d-man in that core, and things start looked really nice for the next 5~ years.
del Zotto is not incredible...he's not horrible...but he's incredibly, horribly inconsistent. You never know what you're going to get from him from one game to the next. That will drive any coach insane.
Fleury4ever
Registered User
I'm so tired of hearing this, it's been the same his whole career. He's 19, 20, 21, 22...Now is the time to act and trade him! While he's still young enough that some dope will believe he might just blossom into whatever it is you are waiting for him to blossom into.
Del Z is on a path to be completely run-of-the-mill around his 30th birthday. The big holes on the Rangers at point shot D and two-way C don't change at all with or without him...Trade him!
(Oh, and his physicality is totally overrated, it's a lot of spastic pushing and jumping BS, maybe it bothers someone now and then, but he's not a positional rock pushing people away he has to get his whole body into it to move anyone.)
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