The Martin St Louis Thread

[Fenwick McCorsi]

I appreciate St. Louis' attitude and how he wants to tackle adversity... But it's mixed in with some serious feeling of being above reproach? It's weird, I think he can become a better coach but I'm not sure putting up a better defense in his presser than on the ice really makes me feel like he's willing to rethink and reevaluate at all. I hope I'm wrong and he figures it out.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

MSL thanks you for this thread

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849864004677796323

Fuels him to do what...? Xhekaj is still going to be a healthy scratch. Heineman is still going to rot on the 4th line. What are we even doing? I admired his confidence at first but it's starting to sound like arrogance at this point.

 

[Sorinth]

Worth reminding people that there was a study that showed NBA players who came up under a "bully" type coach produced less points then the average and the impact lasted well after they got out from under that type of coach.

Having a coach come in and "light a fire" under the players by yelling, benching, and other old school techniques is the absolute last thing this team needs.

 

[HabsAddict]

That clip showed a little bit too much arrogance and smugness.

He does NOT have the answers and the second he thinks he does, he's a hard headed idiot.

Managing people is damn hard and I can say that with massive 50 year experience and ridiculous about of people. It's a job that you do as best you can with experience and common sense. Lots of mistakes starting up but you learn and adjust. There is no absolute set formula but there are rules that can not be violated.

For Marty coaching, this isn't even remotely complicated or hard to see.....he's implementing a system that is not working with the players and the talent he has. If a player or two can't adjust, it's one thing, if the entire team can't adjust, then it's him and his system.

We had BargainBin who was a complete amateur in management thinking he was old style "manager", instead of actually, a failing idiot. Running the team was WAY past his abilities and IQ. Now we have a coach who thinks he's so smart and smug that he doesn't see criticism or his failings.

If he doesn't change and adapt by Xmas, we're f*****d

 

[morhilane]

I appreciate St. Louis' attitude and how he wants to tackle adversity... But it's mixed in with some serious feeling of being above reproach? It's weird, I think he can become a better coach but I'm not sure putting up a better defense in his presser than on the ice really makes me feel like he's willing to rethink and reevaluate at all. I hope I'm wrong and he figures it out.

A few days ago, MSL said the defense "system" was not that much different then what they had last year. It shouldn't look that bad, since the roster barely changed.

Either opponents catched on after two years or the players really do not give a shit anymore. Either way, that means he should change it up.

 

[salbutera]

Fuels him to do what...? Xhekaj is still going to be a healthy scratch. Heineman is still going to rot on the 4th line. What are we even doing? I admired his confidence at first but it's starting to sound like arrogance at this point.

It’s become blatantly evident Arber doesn’t fit the Hughes / MSL hockey IQ projectability requirement

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Managing people is damn hard and I can say that with massive 50 year experience and ridiculous about of people.

Jesus, we'll start calling you sir.

 

[morhilane]

It’s become blatantly evident Arber doesn’t fit the Hughes / MSL hockey IQ projectability requirement

They just need Arber to be able to tie sticks, clear the front of the net and win 50% of the puck dumped on his side. He's been failing at these and it's all basic stuff.

He got the size and strength for this and if he can manage to do that reliably, and he got a spot secured on the line-up.

He doesn't bring Matheson/Hutson/Barron offense or Guhle IQ and speed. His only hope is to be a reliable defensive D, even if it is on the 3rd pair.

 

[HabsAddict]

Jesus, we'll start calling you sir.

Just don't call me late for dinner...

I was in manufacturing management from the ground up all my career. Sorry about that.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Fuels him to do what...? Xhekaj is still going to be a healthy scratch. Heineman is still going to rot on the 4th line. What are we even doing? I admired his confidence at first but it's starting to sound like arrogance at this point.

He's playing next game.

It’s become blatantly evident Arber doesn’t fit the Hughes / MSL hockey IQ projectability requirement

It's blatantly evident that Arber has had the same message from the coaching staff and management about playing hockey, not fighting, playing hockey, that he hasn't been able to do on the ice.

Be honest with his play, it hasn't been good enough and most times he's indiscipline is a problem. He has to find the right line and play at a level where he's an NHLer.

 

[HabsAddict]

They just need Arber to be able to tie sticks, clear the front of the net and win 50% of the puck dumped on his side. He's been failing at these and it's all basic stuff.

He got the size and strength for this and if he can manage to do that reliably, and he got a spot secured on the line-up.

He doesn't bring Matheson/Hutson/Barron offense or Guhle IQ and speed. His only hope is to be a reliable defensive D, even if it is on the 3rd pair.

He can't do that if there is no one to pass to because everyone has collapsed within 10-15 feet of him.

In one play, I wondered why the hell would he ring it around the board instead of coming out from behind the net. Really annoyed at his stupid decision. Then a deeper dive....he had opposing players in front of him and NOBODY on the boards to pass to. We lost possession. So what should he do? Best bet was to bounce it off the glass but that is a TERRIBLE play from behind the net.

Can't skate out with it, can't pass it to anyone, has no option...we lose possession. It's Arber's fault....

 

[habbubba]

Coaching sucks, injuries suck. Suzuki,Dach,Newhook,Slaf suck so far. It was premature and not the most responsible thing to say in the mix. But saying that, it generates more interest than another year of saying development and most likely sells more overall even if they are terrible. Spoken with a lot of people and they have little interest anymore and can't bother going to games even if free. Most wouldn't go to see a movie if they knew it was terrible, the lucid ones anyways.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Coaching sucks, injuries suck. Suzuki,Dach,Newhook,Slaf suck so far. It was premature and not the most responsible thing to say in the mix. But saying that, it generates more interest than another year of saying development and most likely sells more overall even if they are terrible. Spoken with a lot of people and they have little interest anymore and can't bother going to games even if free. Most wouldn't go to see a movie if they knew it was terrible, the lucid ones anyways.

Sounds like you are friends with a bunch of fefans

 

[HabsAddict]

Guys...

Instead of saying "he doesn't have a system" PLEASE check out NHL stats and simulations.

Here are TWO snapshots just when we were scored on. You can get a 1 minute simulation on NHL site but I don't know how to make it in to a video

Example of man-to-man on 5th goal and example of zone defense collapse on 6th goal...

 

[Kennerback]

I’ve seen so many Habs teams during the Corey-Houle years and the 2000s, where Habs coaches implementing a tight system would make us play way over our heads. They’d press every little ounce of juice out of the team and we would be a bubble team. But they never won anything because in the end the team sucked. I don’t want that.

The team sucks. Even Scotty Bowman and Toe Blake couldn’t have done something with nothing. It’s putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[habbubba]

Sounds like you are friends with a bunch of fefans

Actually they are discerning and cognizant of how and where to spend their leisure time in a joyfully rewarding manner and some are former professionals.

 

[Not The One]

Canadiens : Martin St-Louis défend son système et les joueurs doivent comprendre | RDS

St-Louis a aussi affirmé que les explications étaient claires et qu'il est temps pour ses joueurs de démontrer la volonté nécessaire pour mieux défendre leur territoire.

www.rds.ca

St-Louis a passé les derniers jours à défendre l'utilisation d'un système hybride entre la défense de zone et celle homme-à-homme dans son territoire. Il a assuré faire fi du « bruit » — les propos dans les médias, sur les réseaux sociaux, etc. — et a martelé qu'il n'allait pas changer les concepts défensifs qu'il enseigne.

« Est-ce que nous pourrions appliquer un système plus facile? Peut-être. Mais il n'y a pas de système infaillible, a-t-il rappelé. Je pense que nous essayons d'employer un système de plus en plus populaire à travers la ligue. Certaines équipes l'appliquent mieux que nous, mais nous allons nous améliorer. »

...

« Certains joueurs vont apprendre en faisant des exercices, d'autres en regardant des séquences vidéo, d'autres simplement en m'écoutant parler, a-t-il ajouté. Nous cochons toutes les cases. Et si vous ne pouvez pas apprendre de ces façons, vous ne pouvez pas aider l'équipe et votre temps de jeu va diminuer. C'est simple comme ça! »

He thinks his system is great and blames the players saying it's their fault because they can't learn it.

Not very inspiring. He's really beginning to lose it.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

MSL thanks you for this thread

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849864004677796323

This 1 minute vid encapsulates pretty well the good AND the bad about his hiring as head coach.

On one hand, this sort of know-it-all attitude that characterizes him explains why this guy's actual coaching is lacklustre, as he never saw the need to correctly climb the coaching steps and goes out of his way to avoid surrounding himself with quality people who might have a different opinion than he does.

I do think that his overconfidence is still useful at this stage of the rebuild because:

A) He's going to stick to his plan of developing skills, and I think that is vital at this point for a young team
B) If the confidence can carry over to the player, great! You don't want a pessimistic group with no balls à la Buffalo Sabres.
C) He's just dumb enough there's no way he can outcoach opponents, make the team overachieve and miss out on high picks this season

The question right now is, how long will his charisma and player achievements allow him to harp on the same "if you believe enough, everything is always possible" hollow statements before some players tune him out.

 

[HabsAddict]

I’ve seen so many Habs teams during the Corey-Houle years and the 2000s, where Habs coaches implementing a tight system would make us play way over our heads. They’d press every little ounce of juice out of the team and we would be a bubble team. But they never won anything because in the end the team sucked. I don’t want that.

The team sucks. Even Scotty Bowman and Toe Blake couldn’t have done something with nothing. It’s putting lipstick on a pig.

The ONLY reason they won with the "off the glass" defense was Jesus Price. It actually suited him and the team because of the best talents Price had was smothering the puck. If it got close to him, he owned it.

 

[morhilane]

He can't do that if there is no one to pass to because everyone has collapsed within 10-15 feet of him.

In one play, I wondered why the hell would he ring it around the board instead of coming out from behind the net. Really annoyed at his stupid decision. Then a deeper dive....he had opposing players in front of him and NOBODY on the boards to pass to. We lost possession. So what should he do? Best bet was to bounce it off the glass but that is a TERRIBLE play from behind the net.

Can't skate out with it, can't pass it to anyone, has no option...we lose possession. It's Arber's fault....

??? I didn't even mention passing the puck to anyone in my post. Tying sticks and clearing the front of net requires doing zero passes. Winning puck battles might, but you still need to retrieve the puck to start with.

I guarantee you the coaches/management aren't blaming X for having no options to exit the zone.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I wasn't thinking that as a coach. Those players need a verbal kick in the ass from someone somewhere. Doesn't seems to be the current coaches forte.

Could even be from another one of the players. But the leadership is all about friendship and not much else it seems.

Do you honestly think MSL isn’t screaming at these guys for how they’re playing?

I get it, people are frustrated with the rough start. But we’re already behind the 8 ball with injuries and are a young club. Let’s just see where we are by game 20. By then we’ll have a better idea of what’s happening. This club can still turn it around it’s very early and we’re only expecting around 85 points anyway.

 

[Kennerback]

If we want to get a championship team we need a good core of support players. One example is our 2nd and 3rd line. Rangers just killed us... Assuming for the exercise that their 1st line and our 1st line is a wash (it's not really). By production: Caufield, Suzuki, Slaf vs Panarin, Lafrenière, Trocheck.

Now lets look at the players on 2nd and 3rd line by production and start crying:

Reilly Smith - Zibanejad - Cuyle. vs. Anderson- Heineman-Gallagher
Kreider- Chytil - Kakko vs. Armia- Evans- Dach

Coaching can't magically get the players on the right to perform at the level of players on the left.

 

[River Meadow]

MSL thanks you for this thread

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849864004677796323

For the record,

I believe in MSL now and in the long term (they should support him better though, bring in some experienced coach as asst.)

But we have no tank thread, and unfortunately he's the next easy target.

 

[Kennerback]

For the record,

I believe in MSL now and in the long term (they should support him better though, bring in some experienced coach as asst.)

But we have no tank thread, and unfortunately he's the next easy target.

Bide your time. If this team is not turning this ship around quickly, either every thread will become a Tank thread or there will be a dedicated Tank thread.

 

[morhilane]

Do you honestly think MSL isn’t screaming at these guys for how they’re playing?

I get it, people are frustrated with the rough start. But we’re already behind the 8 ball with injuries and are a young club. Let’s just see where we are by game 20. By then we’ll have a better idea of what’s happening. This club can still turn it around it’s very early and we’re only expecting around 85 points anyway.

He never does during games at least, but I think it's not that he's not doing it, it's that it's not passing because his first impression was that of a chill nice dude.

Kinda like the good cop, bad cop routine. MSL is the good cop.