The Martin St Louis Thread

[Habby4Life]

This. We have one good line, and exactly one defenseman who is decent at actual defense. Add a journeyman starting goaltender, and this is the result. I highly doubt any coach in the league could get much more out of this roster.

It’s about how they are losing!

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

MSL has MTL playing the modern game. That just stinks of arrogance that a guy who has never coached at any level above handing out orange slices, has somehow created a new way that is the recipe to success that no other coach has come up with in 100 yrs of coaching. He isnt modernizing anything

MSL from all accounts has been a great communicator and we will assume its true as cant dispute that. He seems genuinely good with players but something is clearly lacking on getting getting the messages in schemes

 

[The Real Timo]

MSL has MTL playing the modern game. That just stinks of arrogance that a guy who has never coached at any level above handing out orange slices, has somehow created a new way that is the recipe to success that no other coach has come up with in 100 yrs of coaching. He isnt modernizing anything

MSL from all accounts has been a great communicator and we will assume its true as cant dispute that. He seems genuinely good with players but something is clearly lacking on getting getting the messages in schemes

It could also be that his "concepts" simply don't work at the NHL level and there is nobody to steer him in the right direction. That's mngt failure really. So Hughes has to carry as much blame as MSL for this.

 

[Habby4Life]

MSL has MTL playing the modern game. That just stinks of arrogance that a guy who has never coached at any level above handing out orange slices, has somehow created a new way that is the recipe to success that no other coach has come up with in 100 yrs of coaching. He isnt modernizing anything

MSL from all accounts has been a great communicator and we will assume its true as cant dispute that. He seems genuinely good with players but something is clearly lacking on getting getting the messages in schemes

Modern game, lol.

What’s that, get outshot 2 to 1, spend minutes chasing guys around in your end while they play keep away, and losing every night. If this is modern game, shit I’ll take MT back (just threw up a little).

Coach Bombay is full of quotes and nothing more. He was a PR hire, no other way you hire a Pee Wee coach, they got the media to buy the BS but the shine is starting to wear off.

 

[Tyson]

Modern game, lol.

What’s that, get outshot 2 to 1, spend minutes chasing guys around in your end while they play keep away, and losing every night. If this is modern game, shit I’ll take MT back (just threw up a little).

Coach Bombay is full of quotes and nothing more. He was a PR hire, no other way you hire a Pee Wee coach, they got the media to buy the BS but the shine is starting to wear off.

It could also be that his "concepts" simply don't work at the NHL level and there is nobody to steer him in the right direction. That's mngt failure really. So Hughes has to carry as much blame as MSL for this.

Yep these so called concepts are not working

 

[Paddyjack]

It’s about how they are losing!

This. If they were on a losing streak of 5-6 games but battling every nights, playing their hardest, nobody would say anything nor suggest MSL is a problem.

But they look disinterested, they run around in their zone, opposing team stay there circling half the game, and they get outshot 2 to 1 every night.

Heck, I was watching Laval the other night, and the contrast was huge. In fact, I would not be surprised if Laval would beat them.

 

[Sorinth]

This. We have one good line, and exactly one defenseman who is decent at actual defense. Add a journeyman starting goaltender, and this is the result. I highly doubt any coach in the league could get much more out of this roster.

I'm sure we could squeeze out more wins if we had everyone collapse in front of the net to block shots, just making safe dump and chase style of game where throwing it off the glass is the most common type of zone exit. It's just doing that means sacrificing your offence and then trying to win by having better special teams.

But that's not a style of play that will lead a team to being a contender, it's a style you play when you are trying to just make the playoffs and hoping that anything can happen. Personally that's not what I want to see from the team even if it would lead to more points in the standings in the short term.

 

[Habby4Life]

I'm sure we could squeeze out more wins if we had everyone collapse in front of the net to block shots, just making safe dump and chase style of game where throwing it off the glass is the most common type of zone exit. It's just doing that means sacrificing your offence and then trying to win by having better special teams.

But that's not a style of play that will lead a team to being a contender, it's a style you play when you are trying to just make the playoffs and hoping that anything can happen. Personally that's not what I want to see from the team even if it would lead to more points in the standings in the short term.

Are you seriously saying the style they are playing is the path to being a contender

How is getting hemmed in their zone for extended periods of time, being cycled to death, outshot 2 to 1, getting physically beat up the path to being a contending team, absolute nonsense.

I guess teaching young guys how to play without the puck in their own end will stunt their development, who knew?
Maybe Bombay has modernized the game.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

THE SKY IS FALLING,

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUICK, FIRE THE COACH!!!!!!!!

Imo coaching the kids MSL does a pretty good job. Coaching the team X’s and O’s Etc he isn’t NHL calibre. The structure is a mess.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I'm sure we could squeeze out more wins if we had everyone collapse in front of the net to block shots, just making safe dump and chase style of game where throwing it off the glass is the most common type of zone exit. It's just doing that means sacrificing your offence and then trying to win by having better special teams.

But that's not a style of play that will lead a team to being a contender, it's a style you play when you are trying to just make the playoffs and hoping that anything can happen. Personally that's not what I want to see from the team even if it would lead to more points in the standings in the short term.

I agree somewhat, I guess. That style is also not good for the development of young players, and makes them play timid and tentative, scared to make mistakes. I’d much rather have this, even if it gets ugly and there are growing pains. I think that’s the rationale of management as well, so I believe MSL will be around for the foreseeable future, even if things get bad in terms of results/points/wins. We did the bubble team thing for 30 years, people need to have some patience.

 

[yianik]

The problem for the last 30 years as I see it is coaches who treated all players alike and saw them as interchangeable pegs they could move around according to their genius strategy. So Darche and Weiss get played top 6 because they played how the coach wanted them to play, like robots.

MSL is the opposite of what we have had and wants players to be imaginative , creative and use their judgement. I like this approach much better. However, I think he is giving players a bit too much credit. So MSL wants Anderson to play more creatively ? Well he can't, he is strictly north- south meat and potatoes.

MSL wanted man to man play . Guys couldn't do it.

I think we need an assistant that MSL can work with to put together a better defensive plan. I know the D is incredibly young but I also see players who actually have mobility and can make quick accurate passes. But we need to get the other team to turn over the puck and we just aren't getting control of it and then getting it out.

So I want MSL to stay, but I think he needs help.

 

[Tyson]

I thought Marty got one thing right against the Rangers and that was to use Evans as a shutdown guy against their top lines.
However I don't think Gallagher has the stamina to play that role any longer.
The first goal was scored by a player coming off the bench.
Kirby Dach had no chance of catching him because of Gallagher's slow change.

Maxim Lapierre on the Sick Podcast the other night made a good point that the Habs are actually a slow team, they couldn't skate with the Rangers.

 

[sandviper]

The problem for the last 30 years as I see it is coaches who treated all players alike and saw them as interchangeable pegs they could move around according to their genius strategy. So Darche and Weiss get played top 6 because they played how the coach wanted them to play, like robots.

MSL is the opposite of what we have had and wants players to be imaginative , creative and use their judgement. I like this approach much better. However, I think he is giving players a bit too much credit. So MSL wants Anderson to play more creatively ? Well he can't, he is strictly north- south meat and potatoes.

MSL wanted man to man play . Guys couldn't do it.

I think we need an assistant that MSL can work with to put together a better defensive plan. I know the D is incredibly young but I also see players who actually have mobility and can make quick accurate passes. But we need to get the other team to turn over the puck and we just aren't getting control of it and then getting it out.

So I want MSL to stay, but I think he needs help.

Yeah, the concepts we’ll call it (well, MSL said that) is a great idea and it can lead to more offense, creativity and offense. It can better utilize some players and potentially help them hit their ceilings. I also agree with WTK that the way they play in the defensive zone could potentially be a winning recipe when they figure it out.

However, it’s like you said, not all players can do this. I get he isn’t gonna be part of the longterm plans, but guys like Savard can’t play this way. Anderson can’t do man to man.

We both agree the right assistant can help. Personally, I think strategically, you have to play players two ways. Man to man for some, zone for others or some hybrid of the two. It all goes back to you can’t put a round peg through a square hole here.

Maxim Lapierre on the Sick Podcast the other night made a good point that the Habs are actually a slow team, they couldn't skate with the Rangers.

I feel we’re a “quick” team meaning we can counter pretty fast but yeah, we aren’t particularly fast nor quick generating offence from our end.

 

[Tyson]

Yeah, the concepts we’ll call it (well, MSL said that) is a great idea and it can lead to more offense, creativity and offense. It can better utilize some players and potentially help them hit their ceilings. I also agree with WTK that the way they play in the defensive zone could potentially be a winning recipe when they figure it out.

However, it’s like you said, not all players can do this. I get he isn’t gonna be part of the longterm plans, but guys like Savard can’t play this way. Anderson can’t do man to man.

We both agree the right assistant can help. Personally, I think strategically, you have to play players two ways. Man to man for some, zone for others or some hybrid of the two. It all goes back to you can’t put a round peg through a square hole here.



I feel we’re a “quick” team meaning we can counter pretty fast but yeah, we aren’t particularly fast nor quick generating offence from our end.

I think we are feeling the pain of having too many bad contracts on very unproductive veterans. Guys like Dvorak should be scratched, he, Armia, Gallagher and Anderson are having a negative impact. I know management's hands are tied.

 

[BLONG7]

A good coach adapts

If Marty needs the perfect players to fit his ‘“concepts,” then he is the wrong guy completely

If 20 guys don't know how to play the system night after night................the coach needs to look in the mirror................saying this as a fan of our coach, but right now he has not developed as a coach the way I had hoped for.
Poor guy doesn't know when to call a timeout or make a goalie change.....or implement a defensive zone strategy, so..............................

 

[Archijerej]

A good coach adapts

If Marty needs the perfect players to fit his ‘“concepts,” then he is the wrong guy completely

Actually, the debate on this is as old as coaching itself.

If you're looking for immediate results and your roster is more or less built, you design a system to best fit the group of players that you have.

However, when building a long-term project, you can afford to put your vision of play on the forefront and mould the team in accordance with this vision, weeding out the players that can't adjust in the process.

You think Guardiola came up with Barcelona's style purely as a result of squad analysis? Or was there something external he had strived for?

It's not like we took the second approach often in the last 20 years, so why not give it a try?

 

[Rapala]

I think we are feeling the pain of having too many bad contracts on very unproductive veterans. Guys like Dvorak should be scratched, he, Armia, Gallagher and Anderson are having a negative impact. I know management's hands are tied.

Yeah it's a bad bad situation for sure.
Most teams who opt to rebuild usually keep some decent vets around to not only mentor the kids but to also look out for them on and off the ice.
That we are continually getting run and I mean continually... can't be lost on our youth.

Gallagher pinballing around the opposition crease taking head shots and face washes isn't quite cutting it in the toughness department.

I don't think any of those others could even get mad if we took a cattle prod to them.
I mean Anderson just won't pay the price I've seen him leave too many games with a stubbed toe to hope for that.
Oh but we have Pezz who creates more problems than he can solve.

What a shit show toughness wise on D we don't want the one guy who can react to react.
It's high time we found some players who can inflict some pain instead of having to NOT react to it all the time.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This. If they were on a losing streak of 5-6 games but battling every nights, playing their hardest, nobody would say anything nor suggest MSL is a problem.

But they look disinterested, they run around in their zone, opposing team stay there circling half the game, and they get outshot 2 to 1 every night.

Heck, I was watching Laval the other night, and the contrast was huge. In fact, I would not be surprised if Laval would beat them.

An inexperienced team got pounded by the Rangers. To compound the problem, our goaltending wasn’t good. It was the worst possible matchup at the worst possible time.

The good news is it’s over.

I just hope Dach can regain his form. Hopefully playing with CC Nick can get him going again. If he can return to at least decent hockey that would go a long way towards fixing things.

 

[junyab]

If MSL sucks - good, helps the tank.
If MSL good - develop the youth, prepare for the future.

No changes needed IMO.

 

[morhilane]

An inexperienced team got pounded by the Rangers. To compound the problem, our goaltending wasn’t good. It was the worst possible matchup at the worst possible time.

The good news is it’s over.

How optimistic of you to believe the same thing won't be happening again tomorrow against a different team...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

How optimistic of you to believe the same thing won't be happening again tomorrow against a different team...

Oh it’ll happen again. But that was a special kind of beating. Two minutes in and we’re down a field goal…

 

[Hacketts]

Interesting to see what this thread will look like in 3 months.

Are we going to see growth, and start playing like how we ended last year?

or

the world ends.

 

[le_sean]

Interesting to see what this thread will look like in 3 months.

Are we going to see growth, and start playing like how we ended last year?

or

the world ends.

Start playing like the end of last year? You mean when they lost 23 of their final 32 games?

 

[Hacketts]

Start playing like the end of last year? You mean when they lost 23 of their final 32 games?

We weren't losing how we are losing right now, there's a difference. I don't think we're as bad as everyone thinks right now. If anything it's good for this team to face the adversity now, learn from it and grow as the season progresses.

 

[CaptnNemo]

Interesting to see what this thread will look like in 3 months.

Are we going to see growth, and start playing like how we ended last year?

or

the world ends.

Looking at the state of world geopolitics, I'd say we probably could witness both at the same time the way things are headed...