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The Martin St Louis Thread | Page 13 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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The Martin St Louis Thread

Intangir said:
Fact of the matter is that MSL sucks strategy-wise, and regularly gets out-coached. He is just not good at those important facets of the game.

But St. Louis is an amazing communicator, basically "A+" when it comes to motivating players and instituting a good locker room atmosphere. Then you add-in his amazing credibility and "relatability" as a HHOFer for players, how good he's been for PR with the Montreal media, moreso the french-speaking one, and things become clearer.

Simply put, for a rebuilding team, one that is not competing for a Stanley Cup, MSL is a heck of a good coaching candidate. Our management trusts him not to ruin young players' careers, and he'll be there to help us tide-over tough years by maintaining hope and excitement for the team (and also the goodwill of the fans). Can't really ask for more given the state that the franchise was in when Hughes and company took over.

Long story short, we stay the course and keep MSL at least one more year, maybe two. Our management maximizes value as they can in that span, maybe trades Savard at the deadline for futures, maybe sign a veteran or two come offseason, along other moves.

And when our team personnel starts getting stronger and more experienced, we probably pivot to a better "X's and 0's" coach to try and get us to win.

No clue who that would be at that point, we're still far from even being ready to truly turn that corner despite claims and assertions from our top-brass to the contrary.

For us to start competing for the Cup, and being a good-enough team to have higher aspirations, I think we'll need to wait another 2-3 years at least.

So yeah, that's how I see our rebuild unfolding.
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Two possible scenarios.

1. It plays out as you’ve said here. He helps to develop players and then is replaced because he’s not a great strategic coach.

Or

2. As the team improves and gains more experience, it slowly begins to win more games and is able to better execute of MSL’s strategy. They starts making the playoffs and become contenders in the coming season D with MSL at the helm.

Both scenarios are possible. MSL has done a great job developing players. I can’t think of a player he’s done a bad job with. Is he a good strategist? It’s hard to say because his teams have been so green.

He might be a transition coach. If so, great job and glad he was here. But he may well be a good Xs and Os guy and we don’t know it yet because he hasn’t had teams that can execute.
 
Doom & gloom is a bit off the chart.

We’ve seen nothing 5v5 from our first line, but they were dominant for like the last 50 games non stop last year. Only line >50% in possession playing against 1st lines every night.

Maybe we give them more then 5 games to hit their stride?

Same for Dach who missed a god damn full season.

We have been putrid 5v5 but this is all on the top 6 (and some Ds, Savard in particular). They should call up Roy to change things up. And if Matheson play I sit Savard and play Mailloux and Struble.


1729344270752.png
 
OldCraig71 said:
Maybe it would be cool if we got past the concepts stage and worked with the players to help them learn the defensive structure because everyone is lost. The numbers prove it, and yes, adding some veteran help would help, but I don't see any takers for MM until the TDL.
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The Oilers would trade for Matheson like yesterday.

And I’m not dissing Scotty. Obviously a great coach. But everywhere he went there were superstars. The only team that didn’t really have the crazy talent were the Sabres and he didn’t win there.

For the most part coaches get too much credit and too much blame. There are exceptions- Therrien was exceptionally bad and Bowman exceptionally good - but by and large a great coach isn’t going to make a young team suddenly great.

Our key prospects have all improved under MSL. I can’t think of one who hasn’t. So from that perspective it’s a success and right now that’s the most important skill for a coach to have with us. Is he an Xs and Os guy? I think that’s up in the air and we’ll know better as the team mulatures and is better able to execute.

The other night for example, guys were missing passes and made idiotic plays. That’s not coaching, it’s execution.
 
BJCOLLINS said:
Easy man, take your meds, lol.

coaches are pretty safe during a rebuild.
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I don't know who you are referring to here but I'm sure there are some here that get by daily because of meds and for many, it isn't a casual laughing matter. As far as coaches being safe or not, well, that's what a discussion board is, a place to discuss things relevant to the team.
 
Lafleurs Guy said:
The Oilers would trade for Matheson like yesterday.

And I’m not dissing Scotty. Obviously a great coach. But everywhere he went there were superstars. The only team that didn’t really have the crazy talent were the Sabres and he didn’t win there.

For the most part coaches get too much credit and too much blame. There are exceptions- Therrien was exceptionally bad and Bowman exceptionally good - but by and large a great coach isn’t going to make a young team suddenly great.

Our key prospects have all improved under MSL. I can’t think of one who hasn’t. So from that perspective it’s a success and right now that’s the most important skill for a coach to have with us. Is he an Xs and Os guy? I think that’s up in the air and we’ll know better as the team mulatures and is better able to execute.

The other night for example, guys were missing passes and made idiotic plays. That’s not coaching, it’s execution.
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I am not on the fire MSL train but I would like to see the players execute some basic defensive plays out there and there shouldn't be confusion on the ice in year 3 of a coach's tenure. Young players need more help than veterans and as for that group, they should know better. Christian Dvorak and Josh Anderson should be sitting. Both of those guys are simply showing up and it has been that way for 2 years.

Last year when CD was injured we all forgot about him, that's how little impact he has provided. Anderson is another story, I have no idea what he is trying to achieve out there. Giving those two a few nights off would be one place to start because MSL has to send a message one way or another.
 
OnTheRun said:
Is this bad faith or terrible math skill?
Kent Hughes was hired on January 18 2022, so 2 years 9 months ago.
The first player drafted by the regime in charge of the rebuild played 2 seasons so far and currently playing his 3rd.
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21/22 -> TDL Draft FA managed by HuGo
22/23 -> TDL Draft FA managed by HuGo
23/24 -> TDL Draft FA managed by HuGo
24/25 -> 4th year managed by Hugo, we are currently in year 4 of their era, not sure how else you can count. Your way of counting calendar years is silly since they decided to rebuild the moment they arrived and were in charge for all stages of team building (TDL Draft FA)
 
WeThreeKings said:
You can split it and say 3.5; but think about the Summer.. where Kotkaniemi went for an OS, they signed Savard, extended Armia, traded multiple high value picks for Dvorak.. that summer can't count as a rebuild as it was an effort to stay competitive. The rebuild starts when Kent Hughes comes on board and actually starts selling. That off-season plays out way differently for us if Hughes starts that off-season with a rebuild mindset.

Think about how further along our rebuild is by not having the Armia contract anchor and dedicated roster spot, and we had the picks for Dvorak still in house? That would've been another 1st round prospect and a fringe 1st round prospect with how high our 2nd round pick was.
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You always inherit some bad contracts when you take over a team, the Armia contract or Dvorak trade could have been made earlier it would just be legacy liabilities still.

And to be frank it is nothing against what they have done, just that for me we need to see some results on the ice, if they are supposed to be an offense minded team they should be outshoting their opponents let s say 35 to 30. as mentioned I understand some of these guys are young, esp. Dmen wise, and I would not care if the Habs were 1-4-0 now, the issue for me is that we see the same issues since 2016, and it does not seem to change, in spit of the fact that coaches GMs and players have changed.
 
If I have one criticism about MSL, it’s this. Why is he not hiring an NHL experienced third assistant behind the bench? He’s allowed to by NHL rules. Questions that I ask myself:
- Does he think he’s too good?
- Does he feel threatened by coaches with NHL experience?
- Can he work with professionals that are not his buddies?

I’m OK with a coach with good leadership skills that had no prior NHL experience. But I have serious problems if that said coach can’t delegate.
 
Kennerback said:
If I have one criticism about MSL, it’s this. Why is he not hiring an NHL experienced third assistant behind the bench? He’s allowed to by NHL rules. Questions that I ask myself:
- Does he think he’s too good?
- Does he feel threatened by coaches with NHL experience?
- Can he work with professionals that are not his buddies?

I’m OK with a coach with good leadership skills that had no prior NHL experience. But I have serious problems if that said coach can’t delegate.
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He hired a coaching consultant just a month ago?
 
Kennerback said:
My 2 cents, it needs to be an actual assistant coach that interacts regularly with players and goes behind the bench during games.
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I don't see why he needs to be behind the bench. The problem you guys have with Marty is regarding his strategies and system. Changes to those don't really happen during a period. It happens before games and between periods.

They already have 3 coaches behind the bench during actual play. I don't see how having a 4th coach interact with the players during a period would help.
 
RationalExpectations said:
21/22 -> TDL Draft FA managed by HuGo
22/23 -> TDL Draft FA managed by HuGo
23/24 -> TDL Draft FA managed by HuGo
24/25 -> 4th year managed by Hugo, we are currently in year 4 of their era, not sure how else you can count. Your way of counting calendar years is silly since they decided to rebuild the moment they arrived and were in charge for all stages of team building (TDL Draft FA)
Click to expand...

21/22 wasn't the result of the rebuild, it was the result of Bergevin being a fraud. By the time Hughes got his job the team had 8 wins after 38 games, finishing as a bottom team was already a fait accompli by then. (on a side note, HuGo didn't get to manage the FA for 21/22, since that happened in summer 21, when neither of them was there.)

In any case the rebuild cannot leap ahead the guy who was mandated to do it.
 
Kudo Shinichi said:
I don't see why he needs to be behind the bench. The problem you guys have with Marty is regarding his strategies and system. Changes to those don't really happen during a period. It happens before games and between periods.

They already have 3 coaches behind the bench during actual play. I don't see how having a 4th coach interact with the players during a period would help.
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One needs to only take care of the D and PK
One only the F and PP
One that covers everything else including contact with upstairs.
MSL should limit himself to key in game decision and tweaking what the other 3 coaches are doing if there’s some problem.
 
Kennerback said:
One needs to only take care of the D and PK
One only the F and PP
One that covers everything else including contact with upstairs.
MSL should limit himself to key in game decision and tweaking what the other 3 coaches are doing if there’s some problem.
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What is "covers everything else" that requires a coach to be behind the bench? You don't need a different coach just for contact with upstairs. Its a small task that any of the other 3 coaches can do.
 
OldCraig71 said:
I don't know who you are referring to here but I'm sure there are some here that get by daily because of meds and for many, it isn't a casual laughing matter. As far as coaches being safe or not, well, that's what a discussion board is, a place to discuss things relevant to the team.
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thought you said “no one cares”? Sarcasm

Look, I’ve been around here a long time….too long to explain sarcasm to anyone that doesn’t “get it” on a discussion board.
Cheers.
 
This thread is just begging to be filled with dumb comments.....this will be my only submission to this thread and is already maybe the most accurate one in it lol.

Just plain embarrassing :thumbd:
 
LOLOLOL
Coaching was being questioned last season.
I'm not sure why people are whining about it being questioned this year after what is frankly a disorganized start to the season.
The reality is we are supposed to be a better team than what we were last season and we are currently worse.
 
Estimated_Prophet said:
This thread is just begging to be filled with dumb comments.....this will be my only submission to this thread and is already maybe the most accurate one in it lol.

Just plain embarrassing :thumbd:
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What is the problem to discuss on a hockey board - not Earth threatening - about the state of the actual Habs’ coaching staff ? MSL is like Mario Tremblay back then, experience wise. Which is: NONE at all ! Of course MSL is cute with his statements while Mario was just a guy from his era, tough and bad communicator.
 
1909 said:
What is the problem to discuss on a hockey board - not Earth threatening - about the state of the actual Habs’ coaching staff ? MSL is like Mario Tremblay back then, experience wise. Which is: NONE at all ! Of course MSL is cute with his statements while Mario was just a guy from his era, tough and bad communicator.
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There are plenty of "tough bad communicators" today.

If you think MSL & Tremblay have anything in common other than the fact that their first NHL HC job was in Montreal, I'd suggest that your assessments are way off, and probably lead to poor takes about the state of the Habs coaching staff
 
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