The Martin St Louis Thread

[Mrb1p]

Dach was fantastic before getting hurt. Ditto with Newhook. Slaf has killed it. Hutson is killing it. CC killed it before getting hurt. Matheson has killed it.

What are you expecting here? Almost all of the prospects/young players we've picked up have overachieved.

I mean, help for the kids, as I've said 10000 times.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I mean, help for the kids, as I've said 10000 times.

That's what Savard and Matheson are. That's what Laine was supposed to be.

 

[Mrb1p]

That's what Savard and Matheson are. That's what Laine was supposed to be.

3 guys? Out of a 24 man roster?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

3 guys? Out of a 24 man roster?

Top line doesn't need help. Second line has Dach and Newhook. I'd have liked Roy but understand Laine. The bottom six is packed with vets.

The D I think can use a vet on the right side. It would've been okay trying RB as he probably could've settled things down but now? I think a vet RD isn't a bad idea.

Other than that... no, what the hell do we need more vets for? Demidov, Hage, Roy and Beck are all on the way.

 

[tazsub3]

Dach was fantastic before getting hurt. Ditto with Newhook. Slaf has killed it. Hutson is killing it. CC killed it before getting hurt. Matheson has killed it.

What are you expecting here? Almost all of the prospects/young players we've picked up have overachieved.

Im 100 pct with you . Thé problem after laine trade , many fans expections went overboard.
We have a player coming from a bloody acl , not having played hockey for a full year .
The scorer we needed got hurt .

Simple the team is what it is a supposed to be .
Give it time , even management told everyone the expectation should not be high yet people don’t see it .
We still in the rebuild , simple as that .

 

[HuGort]

I'm more annoyed by their lack of efforts in transition and up front, then their defensive play.

Around three years is limit for most coaches. Their act starts to where thin on players

 

[calder candidate]

I already said that it a lot on the player I feel like they going around as if they won the race but the race isn’t done and now they are getting lap…but that being said it management role to set the environment camp was a disaster, clearly physical preparation is not optimal and guys aren’t focus and alert on the ice… Hutson is the best player every night that is not normal…

 

[RationalExpectations]

They can feel bad about it, but the concerted rebuild started when Hugo got on board. Using any other point to judge the rebuild is not the truth.

Year 3 of a rebuild isn't where we should be seeing a massive dynamic shift. Look at how long CBJ, Anaheim etc. have been in their actual rebuilds. They are still figuring it all out and in CBJ's case, look far behind us in terms of projected future outlook.

This is the rebuild we've asked for.. that means losing a lot of games, it means, taking a step, and then taking steps back, it means up and downs in team performance, in player performance, in effort, in execution.

This is year 4 of the rebuild. HuGo already has had 3 trade deadlines, 3 drafts, 3 FA periods. These are the important periods for a team strating a rebuild. Too easy to grant them one additional year because they were not here during half a season.

In addition, their core has been inherited from last management : Suzuki, CC, Guhle, + a lot of prospects like Mailloux, Roy, Xhekaj, Struble. This is a rebuild not started from 0. HuGo believed that and doubled down on the 2019-2020 drafts by adding Newhook, Dach, Barron, Heineman.

This team is not the typical team in a rebuild which would have started 3 years ago. I don t know of any team that does not hold players accountable in their D+6 seasons. It seems some fans think a rebuild is 10 years having 1OA - 5OA and are asking all other fans to be fine with having no effort on the ice whatsoever. I am sorry, but successful rebuilds don t lead to a SC in 3 years but they show progress on the ice.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

A big issue with this team is that most of the veterans simply dont care about the kids. We don't need to name them we know who they are.

 

[OnTheRun]

This is year 4 of the rebuild.

Is this bad faith or terrible math skill?
Kent Hughes was hired on January 18 2022, so 2 years 9 months ago.
The first player drafted by the regime in charge of the rebuild played 2 seasons so far and currently playing his 3rd.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Is this bad faith or terrible math skill?
Kent Hughes was hired on January 18 2022, so 2 years 9 months ago.
The first player drafted by the regime in charge of the rebuild played 2 seasons so far and currently playing his 3rd.

I feel like this is arguing semantics. I often call it year 4 of the rebuild as well because I consider the year they crashed out to draft a #1 pick and the year they started selling assets as part of it. HuGo also hired their own coach in 21/22. Whether you want to count that as part of the rebuild or call it a transition year into the rebuild doesn’t really matter much. We’ve stunk going on 4 seasons now.

 

[HabsAddict]

I had watched two of the LA periods and tried to finish the 3rd this morning.

I'm got confused. The Habs players ARE confused. The entire 3rd period was confusing.

They are trying to play man-on-man near the blueline and zone near the redline. I thought that the my wife must of spiked the coffee cake and I was imagining things, so I went back to the beginning of the game. Yup, they are playing two different systems at the same time and probably chewing gum too.

No wonder I see X or Barron chase a guy up high on the wrong side and then play his zone a few seconds later.

So I was wrong. It's not that Marty is not implementing a system, it's a STUPID system. It's constantly devolving and breaking down. Puck battles one second, zone defense the next second....and they land up stuck in their own zone. Neither controlling the game on the boards nor keeping opposing players from the slot or the net.

That is also why we have that many shots on us.

Marty is not Bowman and as much as I love the players, they aren't high IQ veterans or budding rocket scientist. He's trying to implement two different systems at once and it looks like dis-organized crime on ice.

Now what? Does Hughes take an eraser to Marty's fantasies and read him a mini riot act or does he bring in a veteran coach?

 

[OldCraig71]

What do you think would make more of a difference?

1. Hiring Scotty Bowman
2. Trading Matheson and getting a solid veteran RD

Maybe it would be cool if we got past the concepts stage and worked with the players to help them learn the defensive structure because everyone is lost. The numbers prove it, and yes, adding some veteran help would help, but I don't see any takers for MM until the TDL.

 

[BLONG7]

Does MSL give carte blanche to Robidas on the back end with our D system??
Should the media start asking questions about the running around in the D zone instead of playing some kind proper zone style D when we don't have the puck??

 

[Habs Icing]

I dont think Marty is a bad coach. I think he's clearly inexperienced and it's showing.

I think both he and the team would benefit from hiring an experienced assistant, or even an associate coach.

When you say experienced, do you mean NHL? They did hire an associate coach this off-season. He is supposed to coach the coaches.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

When you say experienced, do you mean NHL? They did hire an associate coach this off-season. He is supposed to coach the coaches.

Roger Grillo ? Or someone else I may have missed...

If it's Grillo, I mean, yeah, he does have experience, but just at the lower levels, and his last years at Brown were anything but great. I suppose he said the right things.

Still, things like that won't happen overnight, MSL was a project from the start, something some people seems to forget.

 

[Habs Icing]

It's not the case in Montreal because you dont have 15 players brining along 5 rookies on what to do.

Only 2 players are vets and the rest are hatchlings. It has to be the coaches who teach and reteach and enforce structure. For EVERYBODY.

They are not playing like a structured 5 man team. Yes, they all come back, but no, they don't play as a structured unit to know how to cover each other.

Huh?! Define vet. I'm assuming you don't mean veterinarian.
With my definition, I count: 9
Gallagher
Anderson
Armia
Dvorak
Suzuki
Evans
Savard
Matheson
Montembeault
And CC is on his 4th season. Borderline

 

[Habs Icing]

I’ll go with hiring Scotty.

I would not have answered that question. It was a trick question.

Scotty is 91. He forgot more about the game than I know and that would be concerning. Don't forget he came out and declared that when he watched KK play, he reminded him of a young Beliveau.

Roger Grillo ? Or someone else I may have missed...

If it's Grillo, I mean, yeah, he does have experience, but just at the lower levels, and his last years at Brown were anything but great. I suppose he said the right things.

Still, things like that won't happen overnight, MSL was a project from the start, something some people seems to forget.

So are you questioning MSL's judgment because Grillo was his pick?

 

[Rapala]

Maybe it would be cool if we got past the concepts stage and worked with the players to help them learn the defensive structure because everyone is lost. The numbers prove it, and yes, adding some veteran help would help, but I don't see any takers for MM until the TDL.

I wish someone would ask MSL what the idea behind inverting our D in our own zone is supposed to accomplish.
Putting Dmen on their backhands against the wall doesn't seem all that bright for a team who struggle to exit the zone.
They've taken to doing it more and more off the draw now. I mean we all get the profile in the Ozone for the one timer but this makes no sense.
How about we learn to execute in a standard fashion before attempting needless experimentation.
If this is a concept it's a stupid one.

 

[JadedRandom]

Fact of the matter is that MSL sucks strategy-wise, and regularly gets out-coached. He is just not good at those important facets of the game.

But St. Louis is an amazing communicator, basically "A+" when it comes to motivating players and instituting a good locker room atmosphere. Then you add-in his amazing credibility and "relatability" as a HHOFer for players, how good he's been for PR with the Montreal media, moreso the french-speaking one, and things become clearer.

Simply put, for a rebuilding team, one that is not competing for a Stanley Cup, MSL is a heck of a good coaching candidate. Our management trusts him not to ruin young players' careers, and he'll be there to help us tide-over tough years by maintaining hope and excitement for the team (and also the goodwill of the fans). Can't really ask for more given the state that the franchise was in when Hughes and company took over.

Long story short, we stay the course and keep MSL at least one more year, maybe two. Our management maximizes value as they can in that span, maybe trades Savard at the deadline for futures, maybe sign a veteran or two come offseason, along other moves.

And when our team personnel starts getting stronger and more experienced, we probably pivot to a better "X's and 0's" coach to try and get us to win.

No clue who that would be at that point, we're still far from even being ready to truly turn that corner despite claims and assertions from our top-brass to the contrary.

For us to start competing for the Cup, and being a good-enough team to have higher aspirations, I think we'll need to wait another 2-3 years at least.

So yeah, that's how I see our rebuild unfolding.

 

[OldCraig71]

I wish someone would ask MSL what the idea is behind inverting our D in our own zone is supposed to accomplish.
Putting Dmen on their backhands against the wall doesn't seem all that bright for a team who struggle to exit the zone.
They've taken to doing it more and more off the draw now. I mean we all get the profile in the Ozone for the one timer but this makes no sense.
How about we learn to execute in a standard fashion before attempting needless experimentation.
If this is a concept it's a stupid one.

With the growing chatter from the media and fans it will be interesting to see how they look tonight against the Islanders.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Predators at an 0-4 start and they made the huge free agency splashes for a team that was in the playoffs last year.

It's really a weird start around the league.

Except some teams can and should be trusted more than others to turn it around.

This isn't out of character of what the Habs have been. This is precisely who they've been for a couple of years now.

I'm hoping they can turn it around but it's year 4 of bottoming out. Something has to give at some point. Only 5 games in but sheesh, 'organic growth' doesn't seem like it's particularly there.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

I would not have answered that question. It was a trick question.

Scotty is 91. He forgot more about the game than I know and that would be concerning. Don't forget he came out and declared that when he watched KK play, he reminded him of a young Beliveau.


So are you questioning MSL's judgment because Grillo was his pick?

I'm quoting myself, "I suppose he said the right things."

 

[WeThreeKings]

This is year 4 of the rebuild. HuGo already has had 3 trade deadlines, 3 drafts, 3 FA periods. These are the important periods for a team strating a rebuild. Too easy to grant them one additional year because they were not here during half a season.

In addition, their core has been inherited from last management : Suzuki, CC, Guhle, + a lot of prospects like Mailloux, Roy, Xhekaj, Struble. This is a rebuild not started from 0. HuGo believed that and doubled down on the 2019-2020 drafts by adding Newhook, Dach, Barron, Heineman.

This team is not the typical team in a rebuild which would have started 3 years ago. I don t know of any team that does not hold players accountable in their D+6 seasons. It seems some fans think a rebuild is 10 years having 1OA - 5OA and are asking all other fans to be fine with having no effort on the ice whatsoever. I am sorry, but successful rebuilds don t lead to a SC in 3 years but they show progress on the ice.

You can split it and say 3.5; but think about the Summer.. where Kotkaniemi went for an OS, they signed Savard, extended Armia, traded multiple high value picks for Dvorak.. that summer can't count as a rebuild as it was an effort to stay competitive. The rebuild starts when Kent Hughes comes on board and actually starts selling. That off-season plays out way differently for us if Hughes starts that off-season with a rebuild mindset.

Think about how further along our rebuild is by not having the Armia contract anchor and dedicated roster spot, and we had the picks for Dvorak still in house? That would've been another 1st round prospect and a fringe 1st round prospect with how high our 2nd round pick was.

 

[morhilane]

Except some teams can and should be trusted more than others to turn it around.

This isn't out of character of what the Habs have been. This is precisely who they've been for a couple of years now.

I'm hoping they can turn it around but it's year 4 of bottoming out. Something has to give at some point. Only 5 games in but sheesh, 'organic growth' doesn't seem like it's particularly there.

They are a bunch of losers like the Leafs, but without the elite skills on the line-up to at least look good during regular season.

Their "we are young/immature team" after last game to excuse their lack of effort and jump over the last few games was ridiculus. The media should have rolled their eyes and told them that the Laval Rocket players have no issues showing up from the 1st puck drop and put in efforts over 200 feets every shifts...