The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[aggressive forecheck]

If the Oilers win the cup with current roster, will people still be complaining about losing Broberg and Holloway?

What if St. Louis wins two cups with Broberg and Holloway?

Seeing your avatar and use of the word insidious scares me.

Do you believe it's possible that people once lived in the sun? Not with normal flesh and bone bodies but with actual bodies nonetheless. Made of hydrogen or something.

 

[Soundwave]

Do you believe it's possible that people once lived in the sun? Not with normal flesh and bone bodies but with actual bodies nonetheless. Made of hydrogen or something.

 

[Coffee]

What if St. Louis wins two cups with Broberg and Holloway?

Have the Blues really convinced you they are contenders after rolling over teams like Anaheim, Nashville and Chicago recently ?

 

[aggressive forecheck]

Have the Blues really convinced you they are contenders after rolling over teams like Anaheim, Nashville and Chicago recently ?

You lead-off by insinuating I believe St. Louis are contenders this postseason. Classic.

I don't care about St. Louis. It's a ruse. I'll get to it eventually...

It doesn't matter all that much to me if the Blues win two cups over the next decade. I'm not going to cheer for it or be depressed if it happens.

What matters is I see the team, our team, as dramatically weakened without Broberg and Holloway. Beyond that I've been "adjusted" as a fan by the experience.

During the offseason I was sure the Oilers were going to have a fantastic shot at winning the cup. After the offer sheet fiasco, if it was organically St. Louis wanting to become better the easy way while Holloway and Broberg wanted to cash in or they genuinely disliked the organization... or as I believe, it was a decision by the decision makers to affect the results of the season for the 32nd year in a row, Bettman's tenure as commissioner, I no longer believe the Oilers can win the cup.

If the Oilers do win a cup, part of me will believe that the decision makers of the league didn't want to push their luck or tempt fate by going 32 seasons without a Canadian champion.

It's gone further than that. Look at what happened directly before the Oiler's dynasty. Do you know what happened? Expansion. Was the acquisition of Gretzky and the "fantastic draft of 1979, resulting in 3 HOFers (Messier, Anderson and Lowe) followed up by the 1980 class with Coffey, Kurri, and Moog... was that all organic or was it funny business like I believe happened with all the Bettman expansion franchises, and his successful expansions were in non-traditional hockey markets that would immediately lose interest if the teams were to falter in the standings for any length of time.

I believe the draft is fake. The statistics don't back it up. If you can pick players randomly out of hats and still draft better than a club, something's amiss.

I'm not the only fan who feels this way. They f***ed around too long.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

It's probable that Jeff Jackson spent all that money on UFA day because he knew Broberg/Holloway wanted out. Blues GM was already talking to the media about potential offer sheets before even the NHL entry draft, and he's not hinting stuff like that openly in the media if he's not already talking to agents behind the scenes.

I highly suspect that the relationship with the two players and the Oilers was scuttled during the Woodcroft coaching tenure, they both got dicked around hard by that coaching staff to the point that Jeff Skinner would probably feel his personal situation isn't all that bad if someone laid out the comparison for him. Sometimes things just get to the point where everyone wants to move on to different opportunities and a fresh start.

Sucks the Oilers didn't get more for them, but Holland had several opportunities and warnings, yet chose to sit on his hands instead of improving his team, including the last tradeline where Broberg had a very public trade request and probably should have been dumped.

I hear you and that moron Holland also screwed up badly by letting the even bigger moron Woodcroft jerk the players around so bad. That idiot coach felt Desharnais was better than Broberg.

However Jackson was also Hollands boss and should have played the rank card and insisted that Holland sign or trade the players. He knew Holland was a dead man walking anyway and wasn’t coming back.

So Jackson let Holland let Woody f*** these players around. Dumb, dumber and dumbest. Oiler player development is pathetic.

 

[Canovin]

What if St. Louis wins two cups with Broberg and Holloway?

Do you believe it's possible that people once lived in the sun? Not with normal flesh and bone bodies but with actual bodies nonetheless. Made of hydrogen or something.

The only cups Holloway and Broberg will be passing around to each other is their jock straps

 

[Tarus]

I hear you and that moron Holland also screwed up badly by letting the even bigger moron Woodcroft jerk the players around so bad. That idiot coach felt Desharnais was better than Broberg.

However Jackson was also Hollands boss and should have played the rank card and insisted that Holland sign or trade the players. He knew Holland was a dead man walking anyway and wasn’t coming back.

So Jackson let Holland let Woody f*** these players around. Dumb, dumber and dumbest. Oiler player development is pathetic.

Desharnais was never really a roadblock for Broberg, he played a very specific role on the bottom pairing right side, and was in the lineup most nights because he was good at taking up space on the PK. Where Oilers really screwed up was the months leading up to the Ekholm acquisition when they had a gaping hole on the left side, an absolute perfect time to see what they had by giving a bit of rope for a developing defenseman. Instead, they buried Broberg, playing him as little as 4 minutes a night and yanking and benching him for every little mistake until he was noticeably demoralized. Holloway got similar treatment all the way through Woodcrofts tenure as well, despite showing flashes of highlight reel talent that suggested that he could make an impact with more responsibility.

Maybe there were discussions behind the scenes about it, we'll never know. All we know is that the relationships were already badly fractured by the time Knob rolled in, and the new coach himself didn't even really bother to give either player a real shot until the Dallas series

 

[Oilslick941611]

You lead-off by insinuating I believe St. Louis are contenders this postseason. Classic.

I don't care about St. Louis. It's a ruse. I'll get to it eventually...

It doesn't matter all that much to me if the Blues win two cups over the next decade. I'm not going to cheer for it or be depressed if it happens.

What matters is I see the team, our team, as dramatically weakened without Broberg and Holloway. Beyond that I've been "adjusted" as a fan by the experience.

During the offseason I was sure the Oilers were going to have a fantastic shot at winning the cup. After the offer sheet fiasco, if it was organically St. Louis wanting to become better the easy way while Holloway and Broberg wanted to cash in or they genuinely disliked the organization... or as I believe, it was a decision by the decision makers to affect the results of the season for the 32nd year in a row, Bettman's tenure as commissioner, I no longer believe the Oilers can win the cup.

If the Oilers do win a cup, part of me will believe that the decision makers of the league didn't want to push their luck or tempt fate by going 32 seasons without a Canadian champion.

It's gone further than that. Look at what happened directly before the Oiler's dynasty. Do you know what happened? Expansion. Was the acquisition of Gretzky and the "fantastic draft of 1979, resulting in 3 HOFers (Messier, Anderson and Lowe) followed up by the 1980 class with Coffey, Kurri, and Moog... was that all organic or was it funny business like I believe happened with all the Bettman expansion franchises, and his successful expansions were in non-traditional hockey markets that would immediately lose interest if the teams were to falter in the standings for any length of time.

I believe the draft is fake. The statistics don't back it up. If you can pick players randomly out of hats and still draft better than a club, something's amiss.

I'm not the only fan who feels this way. They f***ed around too long.

you are making a lot of assumptions here. Its just as possible Broberg goes on and continues his 13 point pace and disappearing act he was known for previously as it is he broke he out with the Oilers this summer

Holloway is a different is story but losing him did and doesn't "dramatically" weaken the team. I do believe Holloway would be doing well this season if he stayed an oiler, but its not as simple as placing his st Louis numbers on our team and pretending like it would happen here.

These two players got a massive opportunity in St Louis from game 1 of the season that they would not have gotten here. They had a chance to build momemtum from day one of the season. Holloway especially getting minutes that don't exist on the oilers for players like him. He is getting 14 mins a game but 1:37 minutes of PP time per game, that simply doesn't happen here. 22% of his points are the PP. Holloway is the only player I miss but he wouldn't have been a deal breaker on this team.


on your draft point- the organization doesn't take it seriously. Its true. They might be picking out of a hat. The fact the Yakupov pick wasn't a consensus pick among the scouts tells you everything and that it came from the top. Also, the draft age is too low, it needs to be raised so players can come in and make an impact right away. not 5-8 years later. It would kill the tanking and make the league a much better product.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

you are making a lot of assumptions here. Its just as possible Broberg goes on and continues his 13 point pace and disappearing act he was known for previously as it is he broke he out with the Oilers this summer

he's 23 and played less than 2 season worth of NHL hockey...he may never be a elite all-around defenseman, but there's no reason he can't be a Jay Bouwmeester-lite...these guys are ultra-valuable and he's just scratching the surface of his talent
perhaps he doesn't get the same prime minutes here, but he was an asset worth investing in

Holloway is a different is story but losing him did and doesn't "dramatically" weaken the team. I do believe Holloway would be doing well this season if he stayed an oiler, but its not as simple as placing his st Louis numbers on our team and pretending like it would happen here.

These two players got a massive opportunity in St Louis from game 1 of the season that they would not have gotten here. They had a chance to build momemtum from day one of the season. Holloway especially getting minutes that don't exist on the oilers for players like him. He is getting 14 mins a game but 1:37 minutes of PP time per game, that simply doesn't happen here. 22% of his points are the PP. Holloway is the only player I miss but he wouldn't have been a deal breaker on this team.

maybe not from Game 1, but the Oilers are DYING for a top 6 winger to play with Draisaitl....Arvidsson was a colossal disappointment and doesn't bring the speed and size, Podkolzin has stone hands while Jeff Skinner is too one-dimensional

Holloway would have absolutely gotten every opportunity to play in the top 6 this year

and the Oilers traded for Walman, a LH d-man who plays top 4 minutes...no doubt Broberg would be sliding into that spot

 

[Canovin]

he's 23 and played less than 2 season worth of NHL hockey...he may never be a elite all-around defenseman, but there's no reason he can't be a Jay Bouwmeester-lite...these guys are ultra-valuable and he's just scratching the surface of his talent
perhaps he doesn't get the same prime minutes here, but he was an asset worth investing in


maybe not from Game 1, but the Oilers are DYING for a top 6 winger to play with Draisaitl....Arvidsson was a colossal disappointment and doesn't bring the speed and size, Podkolzin has stone hands while Jeff Skinner is too one-dimensional

Holloway would have absolutely gotten every opportunity to play in the top 6 this year

and the Oilers traded for Walman, a LH d-man who plays top 4 minutes...no doubt Broberg would be sliding into that spot

Walman would be much better for the Oilers going into the playoffs than Broberg if we could only have one of them.

The Oilers just traded for Frederic and Kane is also returning. I wouldn't say the Oilers are dying to get Drai a winger lol

 

[Oilslick941611]

he's 23 and played less than 2 season worth of NHL hockey...he may never be a elite all-around defenseman, but there's no reason he can't be a Jay Bouwmeester-lite...these guys are ultra-valuable and he's just scratching the surface of his talent
perhaps he doesn't get the same prime minutes here, but he was an asset worth investing in


maybe not from Game 1, but the Oilers are DYING for a top 6 winger to play with Draisaitl....Arvidsson was a colossal disappointment and doesn't bring the speed and size, Podkolzin has stone hands while Jeff Skinner is too one-dimensional

Holloway would have absolutely gotten every opportunity to play in the top 6 this year

and the Oilers traded for Walman, a LH d-man who plays top 4 minutes...no doubt Broberg would be sliding into that spot

Its easy to forget that Broberg wanted out and wasn't signing until the summer after his Agent tried for an offersheet. He complained about we handled him, however it looks like he was handled just right by the Oilers Org with his AHL time. The Oilers were invested in Broberg, Broberg wasn't invested in the Oilers. His 4 mil contract is a direct result the track Holland had him on. Walman is way better than Broberg currently is, and the Oilers still trade for a top 4 if Broberg is here, only Broberg probably complains about being pushed down.

I like Holloway, I bought a Holloway young gun hockey card PSA 10 the day before the offersheets. He's playing well in St Louis, but there are too many assumptions being made about how he would have affected the Oilers, knowing our luck if we had holloway this season Skinner and Arvidsson probably play up to their epectations we had when they signed and Holloway gets pushed down. We also have Kane and Frederic waiting in the wings to return to the top six. Its just as likely for him to stagnant in the 3rd//4th line as him popping off here. Like i said, theres more to it than just inserting his st louis stats into our stats and being like "see". If mcdavid wasn't injured and playing up his usual standards do we even care? if Skinner the goalie was capable of .900, again do we care? we are still a top team the way we are, warts and all. We have a lot to cheer for but all people want to do is moan about past mistakes.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Walman would be much better for the Oilers going into the playoffs than Broberg if we could only have one of them.

The Oilers just traded for Frederic and Kane is also returning. I wouldn't say the Oilers are dying to get Drai a winger lol

the Oilers could be in 1st place in the division if they had Holloway playing top 6 minutes with Draisaitl/McDavid.....Fredric and Kane have played exactly 0 games with the Oilers...I'd rather have a healthy Holloway then 2 guys who haven't played with the team this year lol
as for Walman, Broberg has proven he could play in the most pressure situations based on last year...has Walman? not yet

 

[Canovin]

the Oilers could be in 1st place in the division if they had Holloway playing top 6 minutes with Draisaitl/McDavid.....Fredric and Kane have played exactly 0 games with the Oilers...I'd rather have a healthy Holloway then 2 guys who haven't played with the team this year lol
as for Walman, Broberg has proven he could play in the most pressure situations based on last year...has Walman? not yet

Knowing what we know now. I'd still take Walman, Frederic, Jeff Skinner, Arvid, Pods, Klingberg, Kapanen over Holloway and Broberg for the playoffs. If Broberg gets hurt cooking in the kitchen, you're left with only Holloway. You're overrating Holloway if you take him over Frederic and Kane lol

 

[Oilslick941611]

Knowing what we know now. I'd still take Walman, Frederic, Jeff Skinner, Arvid, Pods, Klingberg, Kapanen over Holloway and Broberg for the playoffs. If Broberg gets hurt cooking in the kitchen, you're left with only Holloway. You're overrating Holloway if you take him over Frederic and Kane lol

not to mention Holloway spent a lot of time with us injured.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Its easy to forget that Broberg wanted out and wasn't signing until the summer after his Agent tried for an offersheet. He complained about we handled him, however it looks like he was handled just right by the Oilers Org with his AHL time. The Oilers were invested in Broberg, Broberg wasn't invested in the Oilers. His 4 mil contract is a direct result the track Holland had him on. Walman is way better than Broberg currently is, and the Oilers still trade for a top 4 if Broberg is here, only Broberg probably complains about being pushed down.

boo hoo
match the offer sheet, play him then if he still wants out...trade him for a better asset then a late 2nd rounder

I like Holloway, I bought a Holloway young gun hockey card PSA 10 the day before the offersheets. He's playing well in St Louis, but there are too many assumptions being made about how he would have affected the Oilers, knowing our luck if we had holloway this season Skinner and Arvidsson probably play up to their epectations we had when they signed and Holloway gets pushed down. We also have Kane and Frederic waiting in the wings to return to the top six. Its just as likely for him to stagnant in the 3rd//4th line as him popping off here. Like i said, theres more to it than just inserting his st louis stats into our stats and being like "see". If mcdavid wasn't injured and playing up his usual standards do we even care? if Skinner the goalie was capable of .900, again do we care? we are still a top team the way we are, warts and all. We have a lot to cheer for but all people want to do is moan about past mistakes.

but we saw his ability to contribute to this team in the playoffs

the whole "there's no way he gets those same minutes here!" is pure cope...the top 6 wingers have struggled this year, there's no doubt in my mind Holloway would have gotten a long look and produced in the top 6, especially with that speed and size

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Knowing what we know now. I'd still take Walman, Frederic, Jeff Skinner, Arvid, Pods, Klingberg, Kapanen over Holloway and Broberg for the playoffs. If Broberg gets hurt cooking in the kitchen, you're left with only Holloway. You're overrating Holloway if you take him over Frederic and Kane lol

of course I would...Holloway is playing hockey games and not injured lol

even healthy, I take Holloway/Kane over Frederic/Kane

 

[Soundwave]

boo hoo
match the offer sheet, play him then if he still wants out...trade him for a better asset then a late 2nd rounder


but we saw his ability to contribute to this team in the playoffs

the whole "there's no way he gets those same minutes here!" is pure cope...the top 6 wingers have struggled this year, there's no doubt in my mind Holloway would have gotten a long look and produced in the top 6, especially with that speed and size

They'd be over the cap if they matched Holloway though, that's the problem.

You have to trade Evander Kane or Kulak (so you lose Kulak, Desharnais, Broberg, Ceci from the back end in one summer). And Kane also had a full NMC at that point, it doesn't transition to a NTC until right before the trade deadline, so theoretically if Kane had come back prior to the trade deadline, the Oilers would basically be screwed.

Moving a Perry or Ryan out wouldn't get you cap compliant.

If they knew that Kane was going to be LTIR for the entire year for sure, yeah probably they match at least the Holloway deal. JJ was stupid and too aggressive on July 1.

This is also why Holland signing that Connor Brown deal was idiotic.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

They'd be over the cap if they matched Holloway though, that's the problem.

You have to trade Evander Kane or Kulak (so you lose Kulak, Desharnais, Broberg, Ceci from the back end in one summer).

Moving a Perry or Ryan out wouldn't get you cap compliant.

If they knew that Kane was going to be LTIR for the entire year for sure, yeah probably they match at least the Holloway deal. JJ was stupid and too aggressive on July 1.

they could have dipped into Kane's LTIR but refused to in order to accrue cap space...then spent the cap space on Klingberg (lol) and Kapanen

 

[Soundwave]

they could have dipped into Kane's LTIR but refused to in order to accrue cap space...then spent the cap space on Klingberg (lol) and Kapanen

That doesn't work fully though I don't think, if Kane comes back in say January (which they I don't think knew if he could or not at that point) ... you're over the cap.

 

[Canovin]

they could have dipped into Kane's LTIR but refused to in order to accrue cap space...then spent the cap space on Klingberg (lol) and Kapanen

You're making it look too easy. You're forgetting the league was hard on the Oilers about Kane and even Klefbom while letting Vegas, Florida, Colorado, Tampa and Dallas go scuff free.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

That doesn't work fully though I don't think, if Kane comes back in say January (which they I don't think knew if he could or not at that point) ... you're over the cap.

then you worry about the cap then...you had 4 months to figure it out

 

[Soundwave]

then you worry about the cap then...you had 4 months to figure it out

Well yeah, so then you have to trade one of Kulak, Ekholm, Stuart Skinner (lol) or get one of the NMC guys to move their NMC.

They're stupid for putting themselves in that position (and Ken Holland owns as much of that as anyone else ... all the people saying "3.25 million bonus for Brown won't matter a year from now!" look awfully dumb now) but once it was done there wasn't a whole lot Bowman could do.

I don't think it's a given that Holloway would've progressed the same way here either. The coach is a dummy offensively and there's no guarantee Holloway would be getting the same top 6 minutes + PP time here that he is in St. Louis, it may just be that was a better fit for him. Yes the Oilers have McDavid/Draisaitl but it doesn't mean as much as some may think when there is clear favoritism involved in who gets to play with whom. Foegele this year is having a better year away from Draisaitl than he did here last year is proof positive of that.

McDavid/Draisaitl can be tricky to get chemistry with, not everyone does it and on top of that you have a coaching staff here that has no patience and no long term vision with their lineup decisions. Guy gets 10 minutes with Drai or McDavid, doesn't score and the coach with automatically go running to change the lines.

 

[Canovin]

If many teams were ready to send offersheets to Holloway and Broberg, maybe their agents put that out there for teams. And their agents will not act on it unless they got the players consent. Now are you people still serious about wanting these guys back after that?

 

[Jumptheshark]

I hate this thread

 

[Jumptheshark]

I block this thread Fuvkibg twice. This is an oiler bashing thread but the powers that be have no kicking problem with an oilrtb bashing thread.

Thus thread is an example of why this site had mods that are biased and zFuuucking Pejorative Slured


This thread is indicative of this why so many good posters have walked away from this site.

We get it it MANY MODS HATE THE MODS HATE THE OILERS

WE GET IT.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT BASHING YHE OILERS

oiler fans agree.


The bashing has gone too far and I am working on a plan to correct this on going bashing of the oilers and and their fans


Pay back will be a bitch if I can do it